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  • 60. Re: Patience is a Virtue, you whiny 12 year olds. VAHN RESPONDS
    GoldonArRow

    GiMiiX wrote:

     

    LOL! oh man this whole thread just entertained me. 


    Good, that's what I'm here for.
  • 61. Re: Patience is a Virtue, you whiny 12 year olds.
    Sin-ster

    Vahn wrote:

     

    SnDin9 wrote:

     

    >  Sure, it's fun to play, but it's unbearable most of the time.

    You admit it's fun to play. That's great. It's not unbearable for everyone. It's probably unbearable for many forum users or you would be playing instead of posting about how miserable you are. We genuinely believe that many of you who hang out on the forums (yet are having problems) generally care about the game or you would of already taken it back, broke your disk, sold it on EBay, and wouldn't be posting in the forums.

    What seems like a common issue is only common because of the scale of the population playing. I logged 2 straight days on a crappy 384k up/down DSL with both open and moderate NATs and never once got the #1 complained about PS3 issue. I was actually starting to get frustrated that I couldn't get the problem to happen. I had to check myself.



    While you definitely make strong points and draw reasonable conclusions from the evidence at hand, you're ignoring a few considerations in the process of drawing your conclusions. And you're testing the wrong way, too. 

    First and foremost, "unbearable" is about as relative a term as we could find to describe these issues. It is rooted in perception and tolerance, and will be different from person to person. We could spend hours coming up with examples, but let's go with the two extremes as an illustration. Player 'A' has poor vision, a small television, little experience with ANY online gaming, and is not a very good FPS player. He also runs a poor connection for all of his web-based needs, and is used to even his browser being slow. Player 'B", however, has eagle eyes, a 60", has played every major FPS (some on multiple systems) since CS, and is one of the best FPS players in the land. He also spends untold dollars on an excellent connection and hardware, and tests it regularly to make sure he is getting peak performance from his set up.

    To Player 'A', the game is very entertaining. He doesn't have anything to compare it to, so he assumes it's all working correctly. "Them newfangled computer machines always run like this." Poor hit detection, rubber banding, teleporting/skipping and poor frame rate have no bearing on his performance, as he expects to be killed twice as often as he gets a kill anyway. His vision isn't acute enough to pick up on the low frame rate of the game, or even when it drops to nothing (i.e. Napalm on B in Summit).

    To Player 'B', the game is a travesty. He knows right away that something is screwed up, as he has countless other instances to use as reference. His performance suffers greatly, causing frustration-- which is only augmented by the fact that he goes to so much trouble to get the best performance he can. He wants someone to blame, and that blame falls where it ought to-- on those responsible for the game, it's multiplayer functions, and everything in between.

    Now honestly. Testing on a 384k DSL is not going to reveal the depth of these issues. You're never going to be host (unless the host selection process is borked) because of your slow connection. On many levels, you expect poor performance-- so how can you possibly hope to evaluate what you're seeing? I'm sure you've tested on a wide range of connections, but in this case, you're needlessly spinning your wheels. More than anything, the problems seem most prevalent to people with excellent connections. Maybe the lag compensation is taking its toll on them? Maybe it's a matter of perception? Maybe they're full of whiney crap?

    The issues are common, regardless of the percentage of posters vs. the total BOPS community. All you have to do is listen to people over the mic when the game kicks to the lobby. Or watch pre-game lobbies empty out five people at a time as they are disconnected. Casual players aren't going to take the time to post on the forums. Many of them don't even get that upset over the issue. A few of them won't know any better. They're very real, they're very prevalent and they're very much damaging the reputation of everyone behind the game-- figureheads and community icons included.
  • 62. Re: Patience is a Virtue, you whiny 12 year olds. VAHN RESPONDS
    T-MInus76
    I understand that no game is perfect at launch and I'm grateful that Treyarch are obviously trying to fix their errors. But I don't understand how you can even put BO on sale, especially for the PS3 version, it was so bad. MW2 had primarily gameplay inbalances and issues but BO's problems are technical discrepancies. What I mean is that in MW2 you couldn't play a game without being grenade launched across the map, but in BO you sometimes can't even enter a game. Plus Treyarch hurrying to fix issues that shouldn't have ever existed in the first place doesn't justify the clear cut differences between the PS3 and 360 versions. There have been successful ports before, where both versions were nearly equal. Black Ops is a clear example of how NOT to do a port. Honestly I would have been happier with a delayed PS3 release than this....this...crap.
  • 63. Re: Patience is a Virtue, you whiny 12 year olds.
    coobot
    Yet the xbox 360 version works much better than the ps3 version, or maybe even just fine. "Games need updates" Of course they do! But I want them to admit the PS3 version is a port before I hear more lies.
  • 64. Re: Patience is a Virtue, you whiny 12 year olds. VAHN RESPONDS

    GoldonArRow wrote:

     

    http://community.callofduty.com/thread/100346952
    http://twitter.com/#!/DavidVonderhaar

    Vahn's Twitter wrote:

     

    We genuinely believe that many of you who hang out on the forums (yet are having problems) generally care about the game or you would of already taken it back, broke your disk, sold it on EBay, and wouldn't be posting in the forums.



    I bought Black Ops @ Wal-Mart and if I could "take it back" for a full refund I would.

    However, opened video games are NOT RETURNABLE! Or have you been getting games comped for so long that you forgot?

    How 'bout getting to work on that returnability there Vahn?? I'm sure that a few of us disgruntled PS3ers would take you up on it.
  • 65. Re: Patience is a Virtue, you whiny 12 year olds. VAHN RESPONDS
    It would of been better if they'd thrown a BO beta so they wouldn't have had to patch anything up. They released the game too early.
  • 66. Re: Patience is a Virtue, you whiny 12 year olds. VAHN RESPONDS
    This thread's been a good read :/

    I'm in the middle of the arguments though. I'm not insanely outraged by the state of the game atm, but I'm in no way ecstatic with it either; it needs serious work.

    I can sort of see (maybe) the reasons for the technical issues being in the game upon release, the way they are for the PS3. As many believe and I'm more on this side than the other, the PS3 version is a port of the 360 and so many of the issues will probably stem from poor functioning on the PSN system, due to less testing in general and less intensive testing as a result of the port. Furthermore, Treyarch wouldn't have found as many technical issues throughout their testing as all their testing will have been with higher end systems and connectivity, rather than a mixture of connection strengths all in one game. Also, in my personal experience of the game when online, I've found that most of the issues begin when I start trying to play in a party with friends. Where you start getting disconnected more from games, getting split up from your party, getting the transmission error messages, not being able to join your friends in a party etc. etc. etc. So this leads me to believe that a lot of these kinds of issues weren't found by Treyarch in their limited time with the PS3 version in testing as I'd guess that, on the PS3 especially, they wouldn't have had as much time to test with party play and all the functioning therein. Especially when it comes to the mixed connectivity for the players in the party as well, which wouldn't have been present in Treyarch's testing. Lastly, I think that one more reason for the number of technical issues and general state of the game when it comes to functioning online and connectivity, it's probably because Treyarch were so dedicated to the balancing and customisation aspects of the online game, that they lost focus on the technical situation slightly. Like a young boy getting to third base for the first time with his girlfriend (I think third base is the right term for sex, it's not an English term so I don't know for sure) he's too excited and nervous about putting it in and so endlessly fumbles and slips into embarassment until the moment is ruined and his girlfriend is no longer in the mood. In this case, we as the COD community are the metaphorical girlfriend and have just seen Treyarch get over-excited and make a mess of things.

    The question is, how long do we wait for them to sort themselves out and get it right before we just shut our legs and tell them our dad's home soon?
  • 67. Re: Patience is a Virtue, you whiny 12 year olds. VAHN RESPONDS
    Scarfall
    What exactly is the "main problem" with the PS3 than Vahn was talking about?

    Is it the framerate problem?
  • 68. Re: Patience is a Virtue, you whiny 12 year olds. VAHN RESPONDS
    asystole

    Kingy_Tom92 wrote:

     

    This thread's been a good read :/

    I'm in the middle of the arguments though. I'm not insanely outraged by the state of the game atm, but I'm in no way ecstatic with it either; it needs serious work.

    I can sort of see (maybe) the reasons for the technical issues being in the game upon release, the way they are for the PS3. As many believe and I'm more on this side than the other, the PS3 version is a port of the 360 and so many of the issues will probably stem from poor functioning on the PSN system, due to less testing in general and less intensive testing as a result of the port. Furthermore, Treyarch wouldn't have found as many technical issues throughout their testing as all their testing will have been with higher end systems and connectivity, rather than a mixture of connection strengths all in one game. Also, in my personal experience of the game when online, I've found that most of the issues begin when I start trying to play in a party with friends. Where you start getting disconnected more from games, getting split up from your party, getting the transmission error messages, not being able to join your friends in a party etc. etc. etc. So this leads me to believe that a lot of these kinds of issues weren't found by Treyarch in their limited time with the PS3 version in testing as I'd guess that, on the PS3 especially, they wouldn't have had as much time to test with party play and all the functioning therein. Especially when it comes to the mixed connectivity for the players in the party as well, which wouldn't have been present in Treyarch's testing. Lastly, I think that one more reason for the number of technical issues and general state of the game when it comes to functioning online and connectivity, it's probably because Treyarch were so dedicated to the balancing and customisation aspects of the online game, that they lost focus on the technical situation slightly. Like a young boy getting to third base for the first time with his girlfriend (I think third base is the right term for sex, it's not an English term so I don't know for sure) he's too excited and nervous about putting it in and so endlessly fumbles and slips into embarassment until the moment is ruined and his girlfriend is no longer in the mood. In this case, we as the COD community are the metaphorical girlfriend and have just seen Treyarch get over-excited and make a mess of things.

    The question is, how long do we wait for them to sort themselves out and get it right before we just shut our legs and tell them our dad's home soon?



    Great post! Dedicating, "balancing and customization" & loosing focus of technical issues. Well said. It does seem to look that way, and I think that may have been because they wanted this game to be different from MW2.
  • 69. Re: Patience is a Virtue, you whiny 12 year olds. VAHN RESPONDS

    asystole wrote:

     

    Great post! Dedicating, "balancing and customization" & loosing focus of technical issues. Well said. It does seem to look that way, and I think that may have been because they wanted this game to be different from MW2.



    Thanks asystole. I'm glad I got my point across successfully. But yeah I think you're right there, they wanted to make sure their game was the most balanced and innovative COD game yet and so top MW2. Which, in terms of gameplay features and balance, I'd happily state that they have done that. COD Black Ops is better than MW2. However, that said, MW2, whilst unbalanced, was technically pretty sound in my experience. Never really had that many issues with connectivity and frame rate etc. whilst playing online, other than your regular lag etc. 

    It's just a crying shame that Treyarch lost the sight of the big picture and lost focus like that. But it is the way it is and we just have to wait, and hope that they will get it all sorted, at least the major issues, by the latest at the end of January.
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