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  • 270. Re: To Ghost Complainers, Haters, and Cry Babies. *Updated*
    firehawkshooter
    Ghost is fine.

    "The tomahawk is overpower!" -ficko88

    That thread created well over 3 months ago still makes me laugh. "3+3=5"

    http://community.callofduty.com/message/105065332#105065332
  • 271. Re: To Ghost Complainers, Haters, and Cry Babies. *Updated*
    twinwolf954

    firehawkshooter wrote:

     

    Ghost is fine.

    "The tomahawk is overpower!" -ficko88

    That thread created well over 3 months ago still makes me laugh. "3+3=5"

    http://community.callofduty.com/message/105065332#105065332


    Ho-ly crap. I chuckled a bit. 'Heat-seeking' tomahawks?
  • 272. Re: To Ghost Complainers, Haters, and Cry Babies. *Updated*
    firehawkshooter

    TwinWolf954 wrote:

     

    firehawkshooter wrote:

     

    Ghost is fine.

    "The tomahawk is overpower!" -ficko88

    That thread created well over 3 months ago still makes me laugh. "3+3=5"

    http://community.callofduty.com/message/105065332#105065332


    Ho-ly crap. I chuckled a bit. 'Heat-seeking' tomahawks?



    It was the funniest thing ever. I remember when shotguns got into the conversation.

    firehawkshooter wrote:

     

    I still want them buckshots haxored
    NAOWWWWWWW!!!!!!11!!!1!!!!!1



       What I last said.
  • 273. Re: To Ghost Complainers, Haters, and Cry Babies. *Updated*
    Darkstaar138
    Can we work on smart conversation?  Ghost is fine, idiots are bad, idiots have been diluted into everyone which makes idiots fine.  This conversation is silly because you have the right to choose.
  • 274. Re: To Ghost Complainers, Haters, and Cry Babies. *Updated*
    firehawkshooter

    Darkstaar138 wrote:

     

    Can we work on smart conversation?  Ghost is fine, idiots are bad, idiots have been diluted into everyone which makes idiots fine.  This conversation is silly because you have the right to choose.



    Unfortunately, most people on the forums tend to complain.

    Well, welcome to the forums. 
  • 275. Re: To Ghost complainers, haters, and cry babies.
    MyNDsTRaiN

    yates435 wrote:

     

    My counter-argument to Anti-Ghosters: Open your damn eyes.


    I agree, I have no problemz takyn out Ghost userz at all, and no Im not the greatezt Black 0pz player, but itz not that difficult to kill anyone in thiz game....Juzt some people have nothyn better to do then whine about stupid ****...They need to quit whinyn and juzt open thier eyez and shoot a Ghosty...
  • 276. Re: To Ghost Complainers, Haters, and Cry Babies. *Updated*
    McEgan
    I think that the conclusion that theres no problem with ghost just because its not widely used is a bad argument. Most people are not very good at this game and would never pick up on the "best" perks to use, or maybe just don't care. Call it elitist if you want, but its true. You need to argue the merits of the perks, not people's bad decisions. That's why it's also not a very good argument to say "well I do amazing without ghost, must not be needed". If you were going against a player of the same caliber, him with ghost and you on his radar, he could easily beat you every time.

    Without going too long into it (as I already did in another post), ghost gives you something you can not easily get (UAV protection), and something you can NEVER get, killstreak immunity, any other way. Flak jacket is one often brought up as on par with ghost and I find this idea pretty laughable. For one, it's not guaranteed that you'll live through something. This really only comes into play with RC cars, since grenades will rarely blow up close enough for it to kill you. The car is so fast compared to your character that its easy to get it into kill range. I find FJ rarely works on cars. For grenades themselves, I just don't see the use. If you play this game long enough, you will know when someone is about to grenade you. Shoot at them, duck behind something...few seconds later, a grenade will come. This is the main sticking point for FJ for me. Its cool that you can stand there and take the grenade, but why not just move? It doesn't cost a perk to move your character. For claymores...why not use hacker? There's no other good "must have" perks that I can see in slot 3, so why not use it as your claymore defense and to make you invis to motion detectors? Only possible good reason for FJ is headquarters and maybe domination.

    For the others, you can get their "abilities" pretty easily, or at least mini versions of them.

    Flak Jacket - Move your character out of an explosions way
    Hardline - Get 1 more kill
    Scavenger - Pick up someones gun. You have enough ammo to kill at least 2-3 people.
    Lightweight - The only debateable one as you can't get speed any other way. IMO, it's useless.

    To get the effects of just the normal version of ghost, you have to be staring at the sky for at least 20 seconds, and even then you have to get lucky to find the plane to shoot it. How much ammo do you have? What if they chain call them in? You can't spend the whole game doing it. Shooting them down over and over is realistically not feasible. For KS protection...you can't get it any other way.

    Besides perks, other factors make ghost better than the others. Having no footstep sounds in the game by default make it extremely powerful. I have an extremely good pair of headphones, so please don't lie and say you can hear them plain as day. Footsteps are only made on very specific surfaces and strangely, only at certain angles. Hearing them coming is not an option, although on the upside they can't hear you either.

    This is only my opinion and I don't care if you think its wrong, but ghost is the #1 best perk in the game, and is definitely the best for slot 1. It won't turn a bad player into a good one, but not having it can make a good player not perform as well as they should. It doesn't take a genius to look at the radar, see someone coming, take cover, then camp with sights open waiting. Ghost lets you effectively go wherever you want without that situation happening. It lets you go wherever you want, any time you want. It doesn't matter if there's 50000 KS's in the sky.

    That said, it being so good kind of ruins the game. If you want to be "the best", you have to have it. Nothing else compares. They should have never removed stopping power, or at least replaced it with a perk of comparable power so then a choice would still be there.
  • 277. Re: To Ghost Complainers, Haters, and Cry Babies. *Updated*
    Sam Starkweather

    McEgan wrote:

     

    I think that the conclusion that theres no problem with ghost just because its not widely used is a bad argument. Most people are not very good at this game and would never pick up on the "best" perks to use, or maybe just don't care. Call it elitist if you want, but its true. You need to argue the merits of the perks, not people's bad decisions. That's why it's also not a very good argument to say "well I do amazing without ghost, must not be needed". If you were going against a player of the same caliber, him with ghost and you on his radar, he could easily beat you every time.

    Without going too long into it (as I already did in another post), ghost gives you something you can not easily get (UAV protection), and something you can NEVER get, killstreak immunity, any other way. Flak jacket is one often brought up as on par with ghost and I find this idea pretty laughable. For one, it's not guaranteed that you'll live through something. This really only comes into play with RC cars, since grenades will rarely blow up close enough for it to kill you. The car is so fast compared to your character that its easy to get it into kill range. I find FJ rarely works on cars. For grenades themselves, I just don't see the use. If you play this game long enough, you will know when someone is about to grenade you. Shoot at them, duck behind something...few seconds later, a grenade will come. This is the main sticking point for FJ for me. Its cool that you can stand there and take the grenade, but why not just move? It doesn't cost a perk to move your character. For claymores...why not use hacker? There's no other good "must have" perks that I can see in slot 3, so why not use it as your claymore defense and to make you invis to motion detectors? Only possible good reason for FJ is headquarters and maybe domination.

    For the others, you can get their "abilities" pretty easily, or at least mini versions of them.

    Flak Jacket - Move your character out of an explosions way
    Hardline - Get 1 more kill
    Scavenger - Pick up someones gun. You have enough ammo to kill at least 2-3 people.
    Lightweight - The only debateable one as you can't get speed any other way. IMO, it's useless.

    To get the effects of just the normal version of ghost, you have to be staring at the sky for at least 20 seconds, and even then you have to get lucky to find the plane to shoot it. How much ammo do you have? What if they chain call them in? You can't spend the whole game doing it. Shooting them down over and over is realistically not feasible. For KS protection...you can't get it any other way.

    Besides perks, other factors make ghost better than the others. Having no footstep sounds in the game by default make it extremely powerful. I have an extremely good pair of headphones, so please don't lie and say you can hear them plain as day. Footsteps are only made on very specific surfaces and strangely, only at certain angles. Hearing them coming is not an option, although on the upside they can't hear you either.

    This is only my opinion and I don't care if you think its wrong, but ghost is the #1 best perk in the game, and is definitely the best for slot 1. It won't turn a bad player into a good one, but not having it can make a good player not perform as well as they should. It doesn't take a genius to look at the radar, see someone coming, take cover, then camp with sights open waiting. Ghost lets you effectively go wherever you want without that situation happening. It lets you go wherever you want, any time you want. It doesn't matter if there's 50000 KS's in the sky.

    That said, it being so good kind of ruins the game. If you want to be "the best", you have to have it. Nothing else compares. They should have never removed stopping power, or at least replaced it with a perk of comparable power so then a choice would still be there.



    "Most people are not very good at this game and would never pick up on the "best" perks to use"

    Explain why EVERYONE and their grandmothers use the Famas then?
    You honestly believe that it's for a challenge?
    Or do they use it knowing that it is indisputably the best weapon in the game?
    There is a reason why you will find that everyone's #1 "killed by" gun is the 74u, and the Famas.
    Pro Tip: it isn't a coincidence.


    "..him with ghost and you on his radar, he could easily beat you every time."
    I'm happy that you've decided to bring this up so early.
    However, there are a few problems with your hypothetical.

    1: Spy planes only last for 45 seconds. (The Ghost user would only have an advantage for 45 seconds)
    2: Spy Planes can be shot down. (That removes the Ghosts advantage)
    3: The Ghost user would have had to killed the opposing player 3 times (Not 2, because he didn't have hardline) so the ghost user actually would have been at a disadvantage until then.
    4: Counter Spy planes, and SAM turrets easily destroy/ remove any threat the spy plane has.
    5: Spy planes only give the benefactor the advantage of knowing the general location of the opposition, not the precise location.
    6: Decoy grenades can help hide a non-Ghost.
    7: The Jammer can also make the Spy Plane useless, granted that the Ghost user is within its radius.
    8: A lightweight user can run circles around a dot chaser, effectively burning out the Spy Plane.

    Regardless, knowing where your opponent is, is only half of the battle.
    Good players recognize specific cues when an opponent is coming.
    i.e. Foot Steps, Motion Sensors, Camera Spikes, Grunts, in addition to other audio cues.


    "ghost gives you something you can not easily get (UAV protection), and something you can NEVER get, killstreak immunity, any other way."

    UAV's can be destroyed, and rendered unusable in the ways that I have mentioned above.
    Killstreak immunity? You must be referring to the Pro version's effect.
    Ghost PRO users are immune to being TARGETED by AI controlled Air support and sentry guns.
    They can however still die from killstreaks, however it is more difficult to do so.
    What if that wasn't possible? Killstreaks would be overpowered.

    You can avoid EACH AND EVERY SINGLE KILLSTREAK that a Ghost user can simply by avoiding the AOE, or by staying indoors.
    It's as simple as that.


    "Flak jacket is one often brought up as on par with ghost and I find this idea pretty laughable. For one, it's not guaranteed that you'll live through something."
    The description of that perk doesn't say that you'll be invincible to explosives.
    It reads: "Flak Jacket greatly reduces explosive damage and allows you to survive any indirect explosive attack. Explosive crossbow bolts are lethal if they get stuck on you and explode."


    "The car is so fast compared to your character that its easy to get it into kill range."
    RC cars are annoyingly powerful for a 2/3 killstreak.
    However, it is a reasonable alternative to knowing where all non-ghosts are.
    It additionally is more effective against ghosts than against FJ users.


    "Its cool that you can stand there and take the grenade, but why not just move? It doesn't cost a perk to move your character."

    I'm assuming that you do not play objective based game-modes.

    "For claymores...why not use hacker?"
    Why not just be more observant, and then toss a flash bang, concussion grenade, or shoot it?
    It's simply a matter of preference.


    "Flak Jacket - Move your character out of an explosions way
    Hardline - Get 1 more kill
    Scavenger - Pick up someones gun. You have enough ammo to kill at least 2-3 people.
    Lightweight - The only debateable one as you can't get speed any other way. IMO, it's useless."

    Flak Jacket PRO: What happens when the opposition starts to use Grenade Launchers, RPG's and other explosives? 9 times out of 10, you'll wish that you weren't using Ghost, and that you had your Flak Jacket.
    Hardline PRO: What about the ability to re-roll care packages? How do you do that without Hardline? Every Perk comes an entire kill faster, which  is a lot more powerful that you anticipate.
    Scavenger PRO: You start off with more ammo than everyone else with all of your weapons, replenish tactical and lethal grenades. and you can replenish ammo for nearly all weapons.
    Lightweight PRO: You can run right through a claymore, and escape the explosion. You can run circles around Dot Chasers. You are immune to fall damage, allowing you to traverse the map more quickly than non LW users. Like you said, this perk being weak is merely your opinion.


    "To get the effects of just the normal version of ghost, you have to be staring at the sky for at least 20 seconds, and even then you have to get lucky to find the plane to shoot it. How much ammo do you have? What if they chain call them in? You can't spend the whole game doing it. Shooting them down over and over is realistically not feasible. For KS protection...you can't get it any other way."

    "Friendly SAM Turret Inbound."
    Those are the words that answer that problem.


    "Besides perks, other factors make ghost better than the others. Having no footstep sounds in the game by default make it extremely powerful. I have an extremely good pair of headphones, so please don't lie and say you can hear them plain as day."

    I have the basic $20 headset you get in the package of your 360, and I hear foot steps just fine.
    I don't hear them plain as day, but it is certainly less of a problem than what you're trying to make it.


    "This is only my opinion and I don't care if you think its wrong, but ghost is the #1 best perk in the game,"
    Opinions are like A-Holes, everyone has them.
    Unfortunately, opinions don't hold much relevance in this conversation.


    "but not having it can make a good player not perform as well as they should."

    No one is entitled to do good.
    You have to earn it each, and every single game you play.

    Chess masters don't say to each other, "I have played this game for (x) more years than you, so you should just lie down and take it."

    Additionally, your statement is highly situational.
    Imagine if your party of 6 went against another party of 6.
    Not a single individual on your team uses Ghost, and the entire other team does.
    What if no one on your team uses the spy plane?
    How much of an advantage does the Ghost team have now?
    Imagine if your entire team used hardline, and RC cars?
    You get the picture.


    "It lets you go wherever you want, any time you want."

    So Ghost users can walk through walls, and they are invisible in addition to that?
    That's pretty convenient, I was under the impression that Ghost users can spot non Ghost users just the same as Non Ghosties to Ghosts. Hmm. Invisibility to everyone is Overpowered.


    "That said, it being so good kind of ruins the game. If you want to be "the best", you have to have it. Nothing else compares. They should have never removed stopping power, or at least replaced it with a perk of comparable power so then a choice would still be there."

    They shouldn't have removed SP...so a perk that was truly overpowered, and absolutely uniform to every single class could outshine the other 3/4 1st tier perks? You are so used to unbalance, that you don't even comprehend what balance is.
    A proportionate amount of people use all of the 1st tier perks.
    Merely saying that Ghost is OP'd OU'd or whatever else, simply will not give you convincing ground to stand upon in this debate.

  • 278. Re: To Ghost Complainers, Haters, and Cry Babies. *Updated*
    chamolinian670
    my anti-ghost is to go ghost myself...
  • 279. Re: To Ghost Complainers, Haters, and Cry Babies. *Updated*
    McEgan
    And how do they know those guns are the best? Why don't you look for more meaning behind the statistic besides the actual number. The best gun is a lot easier to figure out than how effective perks are. When you use a gun, you physically see how it performs right there in front of you. When you get a kill, you compare it to the other kills you've gotten with other guns. You compare the recoil and time to kill. It's all instant feedback the moment you fire it. It doesn't take long to figure out which gun is the best, even for a "bad" player. Ghost is more subtle. You can of course see when it protects you from a KS, but that's only part of the story, and a very small one at that. The real perk is being hidden from spy planes. Now how exactly does a person get feedback from that? It's not obvious when your stealth has netted you a kill. The game doesn't say "Congratulations, without ghost you would have been killed instead!". You have to be mindful to know when a spy plane is up to even notice it.  Even then, the game runs "normally". It seems no different than when you didn't have it on. Does this not make it obvious why people don't seem to notice how good it is? The game seems exactly the same compared to when they didn't have it on, minus the KS protection. Compare this to instantly seeing yourself run faster, surviving grenades, or picking up more ammo. You directly see the perks effect here, but with ghost you don't. You have to think about its effect more heavily to understand it. Once again, just because people use all of the perks equally doesn't mean ghost is not stronger than the others. It just mean's people don't know what's best either because they lack the understanding to figure it out or are currently playing for fun, not to win.

    There's no point in arguing because you'll just try to rebuff me with useless theory-craft nonsense. In the actual game, lightweights don't run circles around anyone. They might take an extra step in combat, but are no harder to kill. People die too fast in this game for speed to be useful. In the actual game, spy planes aren't called in only once. Due to people dying and respawning, spy planes are almost always up. There is no "45 seconds". Spy plane is given to everyone...you can chain them near endlessly. The only real 45 seconds is the beginning of the game until someone racks up 3 kills, then it's near constant. You can't kill them all. Even with a SAM turret, the single one time flash it gets showing where you are will ruin your day behind enemy lines. And this is ignoring the fact that you're using a 4 ks to block a 3 (already unbalanced), and that one you have to call in via a crate and wait for it. Do you have enough counter spy planes for every one? Or is this another fantasy game where your entire team is using it counter or sam turret? Hardly anyone uses either, and you can't do all the work yourself. The games I play, everyone uses UAV. You can avoid any killstreak by staying indoors? Are you even listening to yourself? Yeah lets sit indoors for a whole 60+ seconds and let them cap points, flags, etc instead of just continuing to play the game as normal. That's a real winning strategy. Or maybe the other team will be nice and let you take a time out since its not fair you have to wait inside. I mean every thing you say is basically "if this happens, then this could happen", so why not. The point is that while everything "theoretically" has a counter, you seem to have forgotten to take into account the amount of effort it takes to employ these counters, whereas ghost is literally a set and forget perk.

    You argue like a person whose read about all the perks/guns etc, but has never played the actual game. There can never be any debate because we're seeing it from 2 sides. Every one of your arguments is how the perks "should" hypothetically work in a perfect world, and mine are how they actually work in the game. UAV's are constant, grenades are easily dodgable, lightweight does nothing when I know where you're going, and its not hard to pick up someone elses gun in place of scavenger. Ghost is easy to use, and everything else to try and replicate it is more trouble than it's worth. Nothing in the game can replicate it as easily as you can replicate the other Tier 1 perks. It frees you up to ignore any kill streak, including avoiding the almost constant scenario of "Oh no a UAV just went up, should I hide, should I keep going down the path? Will there be someone waiting for me for me if I do? Should I just go back until its over? Should I try to shoot it down or will someone shoot me in the ass as I aimlessly look into the sky?". In that sense, it really is irreplaceable. Good players will use the map info to utterly destroy you with ease, as this game is all about who gets the first shot. That's the reality. Argue it till your blue in the face and it won't change anything.