27 Replies Latest reply: Nov 28, 2011 11:05 PM by JFlogger RSS

You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

thebiindsniper

You wonder why people STILL don't pursue objectives in Domination?  You wonder why people NEVER grab tags in Kill Confirmed, even when it's right in front of them?

 

The answer is simple:  Because rewards are earned for kills.  Meaning, if people want their rewards, they either want them faster, and are afraid to lose their streak altogether.  Yes there are some who don't care about their rewards, but those people are the minority, amongst a community that is all about self preservation.

 

How can this be fixed?  Offering rewards for objective pursuits only, while simple kills (that did not have anything to do with the objectives) do not add to your point streak.  This also means, that the Assault Strike Package should not reset either.  The only gametype, where your point streaks are reduced by 1 or more, is if you're playing FFA or TDM.

 

So this means, if you're playing Kill Confirmed, you don't get a point for a kill--only for obtaining a gold dogtag.  If you grab 2 red tags, you earn 1 point.  And if you kill an enemy, and your teammate grabs the tag, you both get an assist aka 1/2 a point.  in Domination/HQ, if you secure a position, you'll earn 3 points.  2 for defending, and 1 for offense.  In Bombs, you earn 2 points for planting and defusing, 1 point for offense and defense, and everyone gains 3 points if an objective is destroyed (even if you didn't plant).

 

Those are some examples of how the rewards should be.  Screw this, "oh well we're IW and we don't mind if people killwhore" mindset.  If you want a more engaging and interesting match, having rewards only based on what i described. makes it that way.

 

Also, K/D should stay within TDM and FFA.  Meaning, if you play objective games (except S&D), you're not affected.

 

 

~RUGGED SAVIOR

 

http://www.youtube.com/ruggedsavior

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

    But you do understand that this would effectively eliminate point streaks from the game altogether.

     

    An AC-130 is a 12 pointstreak, so we're talking 12 flag caps in Domination. Exactly how often does a player get 12 flag caps in Domination? Never. This change would do nothing but obsolete a game element. Bad idea.

     

    Capping dogtags in Kill Confirmed should only provide 1 points per 2 tags for support players only. Remember, Assault and Specialist are about going for kills, Support isn't so much.

     

    Really, at this point in time there isn't a problem. No matter how much you try, you are never going to get campers to get the objective. So you might as well reward those who get the objective without penalizing those who don't. Because a killer is just as important as a capper in objective games.

    • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
      thebiindsniper

      If you read closely, I mentioned how if you cap or defend in Domination for example, you are rewarded "more" than 1 point.  And it's not just about capturing--defending and offending grants you points.

       

      Both rewards should be earned the same way.  Why should us supportive players be rewarded far less than the rest?  And maybe people using the specialist package, don't have to lose their perks at all.  That's what a specialist is all about.

       

      And people who don't pursue objectives, are penalizing their entire team.

       

      "OH, but us farm killers are important!  We keep enemies at bay, and we earn our AC-130s to do a better job!"  I hear this all the time, and those farm killers never raised a finger to help capture a flag with me, even when they were 2 feet away from me.  It's just an excuse to sound important, when really they're just looking out for themselves.

       

      If you kill and earn rewards in TDM, that's fine, because that's the objective.  But when we're trying to plant bombs or cap flags, their efforts to simply "kill" make them the weakest link of that gametype.

       

      The biggest question I always ask, is "despite how the support strike package works out, why is it that the people who simply KILL, get the best stuff, without having to involve themselves with our victory?"

       

       

      ~RUGGED SAVIOR

       

      http://www.youtube.com/ruggedsavior

      • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
        vileself

        I think what people fail to concider is that most players ARE going for objectives. For instance if I already own A and B then Im gonna run around and get a bunch of kills before I go and cap C. Some might say Im kill-whoring or not going for the objective but thats not true at all because my objective is to win. The more kills I get the more my chance of winning increases.

         

        Perhaps I only hold C. Should I continue to rush A or B and get bombarded with gunfire and grenades? Or should I flank around the map and kill a bunch of people with hopes of aquiring a few killstreak rewards which can then be used to help my team capture A and B. You call it kill-whoring I call it strategy.

         

        The bottom line is my objective is to win and sometimes running around for kills instead of attempting to capture flags is a better option. Heck sometimes sitting in a window for kills is a better option than trying to capture a flag. Isnt that what LMGs are for?

         

        As for Kill Confirmed there are strategies involved when it comes to grabbing red or gold tags. If you are too eager it could result in a death but if you wait too long sometimes the same result occurs. Sometimes you kill a guy so far away that you just hope a team mate collects the tags or you make your way to it eventually. There isnt a sane player on the planet who would legitimately run past a set of tags and deliberately not pick it up. Its worth xp if anything and we all need xp. Its doubtful that people are playing Kill Confirmed just for the kills, there really is no bigger benefit than playing TDM so why bother?

      • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

        Because killing is the main focus of Call of Duty, and always will be.

         

        The system is fine as it is now. I'm sticking by my point that killers are contributing. They're the ones clearing the way for the objective cappers to cap the flag. It's a team effort. Killers go for kills, objective players go for objectives, and the result should be that the enemy team gets obliterated. This is the perfect case scenario.

         

        If we have all 12 players go for one flag, the result is a massive amount of deaths with no real goal. While if 3 players were pinning down the enemy and 3 players were capping, there would be less overall deaths and more overall flag captures.

         

        Sorry - but your idea only promotes fragfests and rushing to a node with no tactics involve. At least the current system rewards players for both completing objectives and killing. Which is good for the gameplay.

         

        I seriously don't see any problem with the current system. Completely eliminating point streaks from kills undermines the gameplay too much. Do not implement this proposed system, it's absolutely horrible. The game would turn stale and boring, quick. I guarantee it.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
    scumbaggah

    3 points for a flag cap?  Cap 2 flags and you get an attack helo! ( with HL)..... You're dreaming son.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
    thebiindsniper

    But here's the thing.  The thought behind my reward idea brings more people into objective play.  However, it's more of a beneficial thing, because whenever I'm playing objective games, almost nobody goes for objectives. 

     

    Having rewards only for objective pursuits, makes the game "mindless" and without "tactic"?  I see this in all gametypes anyway--how will this change be any different?  And quite frankly, the game is more engaging, when you have people more focused on winning AND earning rewards in the process.

     

    The general mindset, is how earning your rewards via killing, is far easier than capping flags or planting bombs.  A lot of people also have the mindset, of not having anything to with being a team player, because it grants more and/or better rewards the game has to offer.  It's been like this since the beginning, and I admit, MW3 improved the rewards system a bit with how they're earned n all.  But to myself, it's still not perfect.  Farm killers may come in handy, if they're clearing an area and keeping me defended while capping.  But most of the time, I see farm killers not even bothering to help me, and I end up dying because I'm the only flag capper.

     

    I still think farm killing isn't very essential, but rather, it's more about self preservation as I mentioned, due to higher K/D ratios, and rewards benefitted from it.  Don't believe me?  Take a look a most of the major video game commentators.  They always play Domination, and gloat about high K/D, because it makes em feel good.  They never mentioned anything about being a team player this, or defending that.

     

    And I remember a video of a team playing Domination in Black Ops (4rumboys), and they won--each member having ZERO kills.  If farm killing was essential in that gametype, why didn't they earn a single kill, and still claimed victory?

     

    (And the 3 points per capture was just and idea.  Changes can obviously be made).

     

     

    ~RUGGED SAVIOR

     

    http://www.youtube.com/ruggedsavior

    • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
      thebiindsniper

      And lastly, the reason for the rewards being changed the way i explained, leads to a more positive result.

       

      When you hear farm killers explaining that their actions "slowed" the enemy team down, or kept the enemy busy via the deaths they received, I think it's the biggest amount of bull I've ever heard.  I never see their actions proving to benefit our team, because all they do is stay at a distance, and continue being useless by not being anywhere near the objectives.  That so called "alibi" is just used so those players can believe in their heads, that they're somehow important.

       

      And the "better" rewards offered for NOT helping the team win?  That's the biggest kick in the junk for those who actually DO pursue objectives.  The support strike package helped in MW3, but it only helped "a little bit".  Because people will still farm kill, even with support enabled, just to earn stealth bombers, escort airdrops, juggernauts, etc.  And in previous games, did objective players earn rewards for their actions?  No.

       

      The point is, it's unfair how the useless farm killing teammates get to have everything, while the important objective members get the scraps.  If the system I thought of were implemented, then objective games would actually *gasp* be more fun.  Also, it would be nice to get rid of KDR in objective games as well--it's not important.

       

       

      ~RUGGED SAVIOR

       

      http://www.youtube.com/ruggedsavior

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

    Why the walls of text? In non objective game types no one gets big killstreaks. Even then they are taken out so fast and they suck so much its no reason to not have points count for kills.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
    rankismet

    thebiindsniper wrote:

     

    You wonder why people STILL don't pursue objectives in Domination?  You wonder why people NEVER grab tags in Kill Confirmed, even when it's right in front of them?

     

    The answer is simple:  Because rewards are earned for kills.  Meaning, if people want their rewards, they either want them faster, and are afraid to lose their streak altogether.  Yes there are some who don't care about their rewards, but those people are the minority, amongst a community that is all about self preservation.

     

    How can this be fixed?  Offering rewards for objective pursuits only, while simple kills (that did not have anything to do with the objectives) do not add to your point streak.  This also means, that the Assault Strike Package should not reset either.  The only gametype, where your point streaks are reduced by 1 or more, is if you're playing FFA or TDM.

     

    So this means, if you're playing Kill Confirmed, you don't get a point for a kill--only for obtaining a gold dogtag.  If you grab 2 red tags, you earn 1 point.  And if you kill an enemy, and your teammate grabs the tag, you both get an assist aka 1/2 a point.  in Domination/HQ, if you secure a position, you'll earn 3 points.  2 for defending, and 1 for offense.  In Bombs, you earn 2 points for planting and defusing, 1 point for offense and defense, and everyone gains 3 points if an objective is destroyed (even if you didn't plant).

     

    Those are some examples of how the rewards should be.  Screw this, "oh well we're IW and we don't mind if people killwhore" mindset.  If you want a more engaging and interesting match, having rewards only based on what i described. makes it that way.

     

    Also, K/D should stay within TDM and FFA.  Meaning, if you play objective games (except S&D), you're not affected.

     

     

    ~RUGGED SAVIOR

     

    http://www.youtube.com/ruggedsavior

     

    I get where you're going... but a dead man caps no flags.

     

    Tweak what you get for going for the objective... but kills are what a shooter is about.

    • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
      thebiindsniper

      rankismet wrote:

       

      I get where you're going... but a dead man caps no flags.

       

      Tweak what you get for going for the objective... but kills are what a shooter is about.

       

      A player who's watching your back while planting a bomb for example, is the correct way in using the kills to win.  Most other vidoes, show the wrong way of killing aka running around the map, and skipping over flags they could have captured for example.

       

      And about kills, how do you explain a Domination game, where a team claimed victory with zero kills?  Yes, it did happen.

       


      ~RUGGED SAVIOR

       

      http://www.youtube.com/ruggedsavior

      • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
        rankismet

        thebiindsniper wrote:

         

         

        And about kills, how do you explain a Domination game, where a team claimed victory with zero kills?  Yes, it did happen.

         


        ~RUGGED SAVIOR

         

        http://www.youtube.com/ruggedsavior

         

        I'm well aware of the vid... that's not the point.

         

        The team that got the win not firing a weapon would have lost to a team that didn't have their brains in their bahookies.

         

        The point is... I agree people should go for the objectives... I also know that if the other team is dead they aren't capping anything.

         

        Taking the kills element out of a shooter is not a good idea.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
    atiredoldguy

    And while they are at it, they might as well make all the maps about a third the size of dome.

     

    No sense wasting all that processing power of my console on graphics when it has to keep up with 10 million bullets flying in a 20 foot circle. .......... and forget it all together for h.c. modes unless you want to make them ffa objective matches ...... there'd be tking out the yingyang.

     

     

    better yet .......... just leave the killwhores alone.

    They are my friends they keep the enemy at bay so I can stay put through a whole cap.

     

    Sure, not a lot of people go for objectives ........ but how many people can plant one bomb?

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

    I think Assault Strikes would be very OP if they didn't require a streak and support would be garbage.

     

    A good idea could be for people who are initiating a capture of an objective or for say two dog tags, to give them a bullistic vest during or after (as a reward) to make the objectives easier against campers.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

    There is NO intellegent argument against this idea, PERIOD.

     

    If you arguing against the OP, then YOU are part of the problem here.

     

    This is exactly how I have always said this game should be.

     

    You get a different amount of killstreak points based on objectives and how hard they are to complete.

     

    You could also get killstreaks, from killing people, WHILE you are defending an objective.

     

    Once you reach a certain distance from that objective, then the kills no longer count.

     

    There are a thousand ways to do this properly and the only reason it has never been done, is because the game developers ARE LAZY and know that people will buy the game anyways.

     

    I have been really disapointed int his game. It plays like a bad MW2 DLC, except for some of the fixes from MW2, have been removed and made the game worse, AGAIN.

     

    Get your freakin act together devs.

    • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

      Um, usually stating that "there is no intelligent argument against this idea" means that there actually are, and asserting that fallacy only weakens your own argument.

       

      First of all, there are intelligent arguments against this idea, I've already presented them:

       

      1. Call of Duty is a killing game first, and killing should always be the priority. You are rewarded for killing and objective play. This is a balanced system already. There is no need to change.

       

      2. Proposed changes would not improve gameplay at all, but severely weaken it. Instead of having such "killwhores" as you guys are upset about, there would be nothing but pure objective rushers. Who die, and die, and die. You'll get a game where everyone is converging on one node and grenades and flashes will be flying everywhere. This is not a fun experience, for anyone. And you wouldn't be "playing the objective" you'd be getting fragged at that's it.

       

      3. Has anyone ever thought of the implications of the losing team in such a scenario? Now, they have absolutely no chance of winning, as the winning team controls the flags and got their strike points, and the losing team has nothing and can't earn them without running into a spawn camp.

       

      4. Strike packages would become utterly rare and useless to have in the game. Nobody would achieve the higher killstreaks in a match such as Domination or Demolition and there would be no point in having them. None of this "you get 3 points for each flag" nonsense. That is broken beyond belief.

       

      5. Why would we have two different rulesets for two different game modes? Don't fix a broken system, and definitely do not add a more confusing one that serves no purpose and only breaks gameplay.

       

      There are certainly a thousand ways to implement this, but the developers have never done it because it is a terrible idea, plain and simple.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
    vims1990

    I don't know what game you're playing but I see more objective play in MW3 compared to any COD game in the past considering any form of objective play counts towards you pointstreaks regardless of whether you are using Assault, Support or Specialist.

     

    I used support for the first few weeks but I've switched to Assault. At the same time, I'm being rewarded with pointstreaks for playing the objective, taking down UAV's & preventing other players from capturing the objective.

     

    Hell, I got a Predator Missile just by capturing A and B, killing one player & taking down a UAV (using Hardline as my 2nd tier perk)...am I not playing the objective??

     

    I think the devs got it right this time as it's a win/win situation for both the killwho** & objective player. Killwhor* will always killwh*** but the objective player (like myself) can still attain my pointstreaks by playing the objective.

     

    However, what need to be changed is this:

     

    - Add Caps/Defends/Plants/Defuse/Confirms/Denies etc. to in-game/match leaderboards

     

    I see where you're getting at but the current point streak system to me is working pretty well.

     

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in saying this.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
    MysticJon

    I see no reason why a change can not and should not be implemented. Anyone arguing against it is not thinking rationally.

     

    -Award players a different number of PointStreak points for completing each objective depending on how difficult each one is to complete.

    -Kills can still count towards your PointStreak, but only if you get them while you are pursuing or defending an objective.

    -All players still earn the same amount of experience/weapon experience for killing, capturing, defending, etc, regardless of whether or not they are involved in the objective. Only PointStreak points would be affected.

    -Add Captures, Defenses, Plants, Defuses, Kills Confirmed, Kill Denied, etc, to the in-game leaderboard and remove kills and deaths (from all objective modes only).

    -Leave the strike packages alone as they are now, they work fine as is. Assault and Specialist reset after death, Support does not.

     

     

    I've read through the enitre topic and so far, those that are against this idea are not making many solid arguments. There are more pros than cons to implementing a system like this. I simply believe that the developers have never thought of it or even if they have, are too lazy and/or closed-minded to put in the time and effort to implement it correctly.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

    I agree, but think kills should still count for point streaks.  An improvement would be to make capping a flag or planting a bomb worth maybe 3 or even 5 points.  There is no way they should be equal.  No one can claim that single kill is equivalent to a cap or plant.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
    xN3LSON

    Are the people supporting this idea on some sort of drugs?

     

    This will never happen. Simple. And even if it does, it will be for one mode only.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

    And WHY we should do this? Because randoms on your team do not cooperate? The other team is camping and want their Pave Low?

     

    How about no.

     

    The support package is basically an answer to the killstreak spam in MW2. You have SAMs, Stingers, CUAVs, Blind Eye + Assassin, EMPs etc. Use it to your advantage.

     

    Getting kills helps the objective too. I don't like morons ignoring objectives either, but guess what? There is an arsenal of equipment that smothers Assault.

     

    And not everyone plays Domination, so games like Sabotage, Search and Destroy, CTF, and Demolition will almost always have Clear Skies, so the whole Strike Package will need to be revamped.

     

    Doesn't need fixing. It is already fixed.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

    No offense but this is a really bad idea. It would only result in a clusterf*ck of fragging and deaths around the objective with no one surviving long enough to actually cap/plant a bomb on it, while the rest of the map becomes Shangri-La (and I'm not talking about the sh*tty Nazi Zombies map).

     

    It might work for Kill Confirmed (frankly, I don't understand why capping tags doesn't reward your pointstreak). But as for gamemodes like Dom and HQ, NO, JUST NO!

    • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

      cryo70 wrote:

       

      No offense but this is a really bad idea. It would only result in a clusterf*ck of fragging and deaths around the objective with no one surviving long enough to actually cap/plant a bomb on it, while the rest of the map becomes Shangri-La (and I'm not talking about the sh*tty Nazi Zombies map).

       

      It might work for Kill Confirmed (frankly, I don't understand why capping tags doesn't reward your pointstreak). But as for gamemodes like Dom and HQ, NO, JUST NO!

       

      You obviously don't like it, because you are one of the people that does what the OP is talking about. Do you actually think that getting killstreaks in those games make you any good?

       

      Because EVERYONE knows, if you were good, you wouldn't have to play objective based games in order to get those kills and kill streaks.

       

      Sorry(Not really.), but the OP is 1000% correct in his statement.

      • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
        vims1990

        Did he ever state that getting pointstreaks in those games make's any player good?

         

        You can still play the objective by preventing other players from capturing it which requires what.....killing but it depends on whether you've got the upper hand in the game. I will fight for the B Flag regardless of what my individual score is and once I've got both A and B or C & B in domination, I can build up my pointstreaks from there.

         

        You gain your poinstreaks in any way you choose whether you're capping the flags or preventing the opposition to capture as long as you have the upper advantage.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.
    Snipingdbag

    And you should not say what you think out loud 24/7. Kudos to anyone who fully read that after that suggestion.

  • Re: You should never earn point streaks for kills, in other gametypes.

    I agree 100%
    i hate it when i'm the only one playing the objective and not being rewarded because im not camping in a corner waiting for people to run past.
    The system is good but they should at least make a cap or a plant count more towards streaks then kills.
    If you're going to play an objective based game do the objective! or go back to TDM