27 Replies Latest reply: Dec 2, 2011 9:19 AM by jbghah123 RSS

Weapon Rebalancing

The purpose of this topic is to discus weapon rebalancing ie: "nerfing",  not to insult people for prefering certain weapons.  The proceeding is my opinion on the subject, feel free to post your own ideas for rebalancing, but if you feel the need to use words like "noob" "OP" "legit" or "skill", go find another thread to do your whining.

 

Akimbo Machine Pistols: Mainly the FMG9s but I think the MP9 and G18 could do with a bit of tweaking as well.  There should be a  penalty to range and perhaps a higher penalty to  mobility when using  Akimbo machine pistols.

 

All Shotguns, especially the Striker: Eliminate the additional benefit of using a paticular attachment, otherwise increase the pellet spread and recoil.

 

Type 95: Bring the damage down from 55 to less than 50, otherwise increase the hipfire spread and recoil.

 

Some SMGs should have more hipfire spread, namely the P90 and PP90M1.

 

Note that I use all of the above except the Striker, I think these are all useful weapons in the right situations, but they seem to win more than they should in the "wrong" situations (Type 95 consistantly beats SMGs up close, Striker consistantly beats ARs at range, etc.).

 

EDIT: I didn't realize the exploit works on all shotguns.  Include the word "skill" on the no-no list.  Changed title. Changed title.

 

Message was edited by: cover-firefry

 

Message was edited by: cover-firefry

 

Message was edited by: cover-firefry

 

Message was edited by: cover-firefry

  • Re: Overused and overpowered weapons 2.0
    Goodtwin

    I dont personally use the Type 95, but why shouldnt it beat a SMG up close if they land shots?  The idea behind SMG's is to have increased mobility, shoot on the move.  If your fighting a player using the Type 95 and your using a SMG, and you dont beat him to the punch then thats your fault.  I still can believe that people think the PP90M1 is OP, have you played using it?  You dont hit anything that your cursor isnt planted on, and at mid to long range it can take 6+ landed shots to make a kill.  Its very good from the hip because of its low recoil, high rate of fire, and mobility.  The Type 95 packs a punch, but shouldnt a 3 round burst fire weapon be setup that way?  If you suck at aiming, your not going to be any good with that weapon.  If your a spray and pray player you want an automatic, but if your a more deliberate with your aiming then a 3 round burst weapon is ok.  The P90 did have to much range, but I believe they toned that down in the recent patch.  The Akimbo FMG's were definately OP, but that has either already been toned down, or will be soon.  When you choose a weapn class you need to know that your taking the good with the bad.  For every advange their is a dissadvantage.  Some weapons are better than others, but thats always been the case.  You dont really think the Famas and Aug were used in BO so much because people liked how they look do you? 

    • Re: Overused and overpowered weapons 2.0

      You made some good points, however maybe you should more carefully read my message as I addressed many of them already.  It's not that these weapons are overpowered as much as it is that regardless of whose hands they are in they win gunfights they probably shouldn't have.  (That means they're in my hands as much as others).

       

      Yes I use the PP90M1 it's my most used SMG as a matter of fact, the thing is the hipfire is so good that Steady Aim doesn't even improve it. 

       

      The Type 95 currently kills in two shots, with say 45 damage it would still be a one burst kill but you would have to aim to ensure your all your shots land on target.

       

      And thank you for using the word "skill", I'm going to add that one to the list.  This isn't about who's the better player, you mind as well find that MLG-wannabe and argue with him if that's what your after.  Speaking of MLG and Black Ops and Famas, The real MLG used the Famas almost exclusively because it excells in virtualy any situation, I have a feeling this time around they will have to tailor their classes to the map and gamemode in order to prevail.

      • Re: Overused and overpowered weapons 2.0

        lol hypocrite much.  I chastise Goodwin for not thoroughly reading my post before relpying, then I reply indicating he said skill when he didn't.  -my bad.

         

        He may not have used the word but his reply was  saturated with the connotation that these weapons take a great deal of skill to use, and therefore are fine the way they are.

      • Re: Overused and overpowered weapons 2.0
        Goodtwin

        Not sure what your referancing in your last paragraph, but its true that two more or less equallly talented players, the weapon choice can be the differance maker.  My point is that not everyone cares exclusively about thier KD ratio, and would rather choose a weapon thats out of the norm and see if they can still do well with it.  With guns like the Type 95, if it does need some work, its probably not with the power per bullet, but with the amount of kick, especially when firing form the hip.  Weapons with long range abilities should have massive stopping power at close range, but shouldnt be as mobil, and recoil should be really high from the hip.  I suppose I may be confusing what people may really mean by OP.  I have always assumed they meant damge per bullet landed, but thats probably not the case.  Even though we are Wii gamers, I think its up to IW and not Treyarch on how to finnally balance the weapons.   

    • Re: Overused and overpowered weapons 2.0

      Goodtwin wrote:

       

      You dont really think the Famas and Aug were used in BO so much because people liked how they look do you? 

      I only used the AUG because I liked the look of the ACOG didn't use anything else with it.

  • Re: Overused and overpowered weapons 2.0

    cover-firefry wrote:

     

    Sorry for the title, but I had to poke a little fun at that guy.  Contrary to the previous thread, the purpose of this topic is to discus weapon rebalancing ie: "nerfing",  not to insult people for prefering certain weapons.  The proceeding is my opinion on the subject, feel free to post your own ideas for rebalancing, but if you feel the need to use words like "noob" "OP" or "legit", go find another thread to do your whining.

     

    Akimbo Machine Pistols: Mainly the FMG9s but I think the MP9 and G18 could do with a bit of tweaking as well.  There should be a  penalty to range and perhaps a higher penalty to  mobility when using  Akimbo machine pistols.

    Now I partialy agree with you most machine pistols could use some tweaking but I think G18 and Scorpion are fine. Now the reason I say that is because the G18s are unlocked at lvl 70, major recoil, lots of muzzle flash, 20 round clip, chews through ammo, and you need scavanger.

     

    All Shotguns, especially the Striker: Eliminate the additional benefit of using a paticular attachment, otherwise increase the pellet spread and recoil.

    I don't think the striker is that big a problem because i've never seen anyone using one that was able to beat my PM-9, AA-12, or SPAS 12.

    Type 95: Bring the damage down from 55 to less than 50, otherwise increase the hipfire spread and recoil.

    If I were to balance the Type 95 I would decrease its mobilaty, add more sway, and give it a little more recoil.

     

    Some SMGs should have more hipfire spread, namely the P90 and PP90M1.

    What they need to do is add more recoil when you equip rapid fire and less range with a suppressor.

     

    Note that I use all of the above except the Striker, I think these are all useful weapons in the right situations, but they seem to win more than they should in the "wrong" situations (Type 95 consistantly beats SMGs up close, Striker consistantly beats ARs at range, etc.).

     

    EDIT: I didn't realize the exploit works on all shotguns.

     

    Message was edited by: cover-firefry

    • Re: Overused and overpowered weapons 2.0

      Good points on the G18, except unlocked at 70, sooner or later everybody will get there and it could use a little tweaking if the other high RoF secondaries were rebalanced.

       

      Just wait, once people figure out how to exploit the shotguns they are quite dangerous.  If they do buff the shotties without removing the exploit I will pull a Beastblood and cook my disk.

       

      The Type 95, you want to balance a  weapon that is getting too many hipfire kills by making it harder to use at range... ?

       

      You actually get more recoil with rapid fire (recoil is per shot, so increasing RoF increases recoil, without giving centerspeed the time between shots to counteract it).  Also the stats say silencers already reduce range.

       

      Thanks for the input

      • Re: Overused and overpowered weapons 2.0

        I don't think you get what I was saying for somethings like the suppressor they should make the range decrease even more and with rapid fire  they should do what they did with AK-74u in BO. The Type 95 sucks at hipfiring most people just use stalker and aim down the sights. Also the shotgun thing I think was put in there on purpose because if you want a powerful shotgun you will need extended mags and damage or range which means your limited to certian attachments and proficiencies.

  • Re: Overused and overpowered weapons 2.0

    You got it bud!

    • Re: Overused and overpowered weapons 2.0
      SmokeyCheese1

      Just so you know, I have a boring day all day at work. This just made my day. Thank you.

    • Re: Overused and overpowered weapons 2.0
      Goodtwin

      Lets not turn this into a mud slinging contest, I think we can all agree that we want the best game possible.  I think some of us, myself included immediately saw this thread as another thread where a person is complaining that the only reason they arent great is because of the weapons.  Like I said, kick shouldnt be increased on the Type 95 when in ADS, its planted against the shoulder and shouldnt recoil to badly being a 3 round burt fire weapon.  Mobility could come down a bit, especially when in ADS.  Not all weapons with a high rate of fire shoukld have alot of recoil.  If you have a weapon with a long enough barrel, and shoots small caliber lead, then it probably wont have lots of recoil even with a high rate of fire.  I just dont want to see major changes made to weapons that take a good weapon, and downgrade it so bad that its now a bad weapon, and another weapon just moves into its spot.  Any balancing at this point should be pretty minimal.  Slight kick changes, mobility decreases, and range adjustments.  With that being said, you should start a game after a patch and have your favorite weapon turned into a super soaker, and sometimes developers have a tendancy to go overboard weapon changes. 

  • Re: Cryfest 2.0
    padiego

    Quickscoping is OP.

    Reason- Its totally laughable. Sniper rifles beating guns at every range? Yeah, that's balanced!

    • Re: Cryfest 2.0

      I agree that the principle of quickscoping is laughable but "OP" is a no-no word in this thread.

       

      I didn't want to bring up snipers because it's more of a personal distaste than a balance issue.

  • Re: Weapon Rebalancing

    I do agree the FMg9 akimbo's are over-powered...and that's why I use them, and if you want to fight, you better use them, too...

     

    That just means I have tried other secondaries and there is no reason to use a different secondary. Why would you handicap or limit yourself? Use what's gonna be effective at very-close range. Why use a pistol when you can use two smg's with 2000 rpms? You are a moron if you don't use the most effective guns in this game. The only balance is if we both use them at each other, so, all things equal, will come down to skill and timing.

     

    I only switch to them when I'm running to cover or out of ammo.

    • Re: Weapon Rebalancing

      I laugh at people that use the FMG9 Akimbo because they always fail when I bring out my Deagle Akimbo, PM-9 W/ Extended Mags, or MK14 W/ Rapid Fire and Suppressor.

    • Re: Weapon Rebalancing
      Goodtwin

      If you want to use the Akimbo FMG's go ahead, but they are going to continue to downgrade those in future patches, probably removing akimbo from machine pistols all together.  Akimbo Machine pistols are better than any primary SMG at the moment, and thats not right.  I would have no problem with them being setup as a primary weapon, but they pack way to much power as a secondary weapon.  I think of all the weapons in this game, the Akimbo FMG's stand out the most when it comes to weapons that need to be rebalanced. 

       

      The AK47 with the Kick perk enabled was pretty good, decent power with decent mobility for an assault rifle.  Overall I still prefer to be able to move quickly with an SMG, but the AK47 was nice when shooting at long range. 

      • Re: Weapon Rebalancing

        In a desperate attempt to try and enjoy this game, yesterday I went back to my  roots in cod and played some core tdm and dom. Everytime I was killed it was by akimbo something or other. There must be something in what people say if nearly everybody in core is using them. Alot of people were using another gun too, I couldn't make out what it was, it didn't sound very powerfull and even sounded like a pistol of some kind, but it took me out with just a couple of shots to the body. So as a HC player, where power doesn't matter at all as they all work in that mode, these are the things I noticed right away switching from HC to core..

        • Re: Weapon Rebalancing

          The gun pauly01 might be the Mk14 as i use it and it sounds to me a bit like a powerful pistol and very lethal its one of those guns that gives great satsfaction when you get kills with it, the hard choice with the gun is take it with the kick option and at long range it's nearly as good as a sniper rifle but with rapid fire and silencer it's deadly at close range and very accurate but with some stealth! but you will lose to mp9 or any other quick fire weapon!

           

          I have a hard time deciding what gun my gold ump45 with silence and rapd fire ro try and counter mp9 akimbos or the mk14, the maps that have areas that have long sight lines such as bakara and also one of the other african maps the one with the bridge and buildings inthe centre up high are great with the MK14.

           

          i do have a class that has ump45 with rapid fire and silencer and mk14 asmy secondary weapon as you can have the best of both!

           

          domination/demolition are my favourite on core but i do have a soft spot for kill confirmed too, musyt check out hard core at some stage! dom and dem at least give you something to fight for or protect.

  • Re: Weapon Rebalancing

    How about "Player" balance?

     

    My go-to class is the Mk-14 and the secondary is the Akimbo FMG's. Those two are on opposite ends of the spectrum!

    So if there is lag or my aim is off, I will switch over to save my life!

    .