41 Replies Latest reply: Dec 13, 2011 11:43 AM by nuttin2say RSS

Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

kastro187420

The game (and indeed the series) has gone downhill far too much. There is never a Beta, despite being completely necessary. For the last 3 years (MW2/Black Ops/MW3), the series has proven this. Time and again, Quantity is put infront of quality. Dedicated Servers are never utilized for whatever reason, despite every other FPS developer out there using them in their games. Be it Battlefield, Medal of Honor, or even Killzone. None of these games are bringing in BILLIONS of dollars, but each of them are putting out the money for a QUALITY experience. And while some may have different opinions, no one can deny that they're at least TRYING. I mean, I get that it costs money. But for a series that, for the last 3 years, has raked in over a BILLIONAN dollars per title, I don't think it's something that you can't afford.

 

I would really like to think that losing this and not even being nominated would be enough to make activision open it's eyes a little bit, but I honestly don't think that's ever going to happen. There are just too many people who are blind to the game's issues and refuse to acknowledge them, and are willing to blindly buy the game year after year based purely on the title alone. That needs to stop at some point.

 

Also, let us consider something else too:

 

The ONLY category that you won in, was "Best Shooter", and let's be honest; your only competition there was BF3, and I'd be curious as to how big of a margin you even won in at that. You didn't even win [b]Best Multiplayer[/b], which is what the entire franchise has been riding on since Call of Duty 4. You lost to a game whose only Multiplayer aspect was a 2-player Co-Op.

 

Tl;dr

 

You know you're in trouble when you can't even get a nomination, and you lose in the category in which your entire franchise rides on. Do something innovative with the series before even the blind fans open their eyes and move onto something else. Call of Duty is only going to be able to rely on it's name for so long before you have to start actually making a quality game.

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    Ok you seem to love to bash every aspect of this game i see post after post of the same thing every day. Your post was informative thats all. I see dedicated servers thrown around like its is the end all fix. Tell me have you even reasearched it?Do you work for them, seeing as you know exactly how much money they have to throw around? Do you know the logistics envloved do you really know how much it would take to run and set up one in every major city?  Because if its not the lag will be worse then it is now. Of those games that you jump for joy that have dedictated servers how come they are not making all the money? You know why? It is because they suck, there dedicated servers do not help them one bit. I have no issues with people posting things about fixing what ever its there opion good for you, however least make sure you are just not throwing out the same old crap every one else throws out and do some research next time.

    • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
      kastro187420

      Keyboard wrote:

       

      Ok you seem to love to bash every aspect of this game i see post after post of the same thing every day. Your post was informative thats all. I see dedicated servers thrown around like its is the end all fix. Tell me have you even reasearched it?Do you work for them, seeing as you know exactly how much money they have to throw around? Do you know the logistics envloved do you really know how much it would take to run and set up one in every major city?  Because if its not the lag will be worse then it is now. Of those games that you jump for joy that have dedictated servers how come they are not making all the money? You know why? It is because they suck, there dedicated servers do not help them one bit. I have no issues with people posting things about fixing what ever its there opion good for you, however least make sure you are just not throwing out the same old crap every one else throws out and do some research next time.

       

      I have looked into dedicated servers. I don't need to work for the companies to know how much money the series is making, considering year after year they openly brag about breaking previous records and talking about making $1B each year. For for fun though:

       

      http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/17/modern-warfare-3-sets-new-sales-record-775-mill ion-in-five-days/

      http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20026321-17.html

      http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10434464-52.html

       

      and none of that is even including DLC sales. So let's not pretend like they don't have the money.

       

      The reason those other games aren't making the same level of money is because they aren't catering to casual gamers. They're spending their money doing something different. They're making the game they want to make.  Let's not pretend that high sales numbers means a game is good. Everyone and their mom knows that Call of Duty sells based upon the name alone, not because it's a good game. I think VGA's have proven this. They weren't even nominated for GotY, and lost in the Best Multiplayer category.

       

      I've done my research. I'm just not a blind fanboy willing to accept that a game that sells to little kids means it's a great game. I prefer quality over quantity, as do many others. This is why despite a billion dollars for nearly 3 years running, the series failed to pull in the votes.

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    how about u stop complaining and stop botherin us fans time

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    It's obvious dedicated servers are not as essential as everyone claims since Call of Duty is more popular than every other game with dedicated servers, probably combined.

     

    What many people do not understand is that dedicated servers decrease variety availability and in some aspects, make the game worse. They would limit playlists options and availability, cause matchmaking issues, probably increase pings in most cases because servers are singularly regional, people in less common areas are completely effed, etc.

     

    If you have a three bar, and an enemy has a four bar.. he kills you because of lag.. what makes you so sure that wouldn't happen on a dedicated server? Because in many aspects, a host is an exact equivalent to a server. (well, the host IS a server) Most people think that dedicated servers equate zero lag, as if they can eliminate ping.

    • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
      kastro187420

      CSx121 wrote:

       

      It's obvious dedicated servers are not as essential as everyone claims since Call of Duty is more popular than every other game with dedicated servers, probably combined.

       

      What many people do not understand is that dedicated servers decrease variety availability and in some aspects, make the game worse. They would limit playlists options and availability, cause matchmaking issues, probably increase pings in most cases because servers are singularly regional, people in less common areas are completely effed, etc.

       

      If you have a three bar, and an enemy has a four bar.. he kills you because of lag.. what makes you so sure that wouldn't happen on a dedicated server? Because in many aspects, a host is an exact equivalent to a server. (well, the host IS a server) Most people think that dedicated servers equate zero lag, as if they can eliminate ping.

       

      Dedicated Servers alone don't guarantee a game to be a success. That much is obvious and true. They are however a step in the right direction. However, again, we need to understand that Call of Duty is popular, but for all the wrong reasons.

       

      Dedicated Servers don't limit options. They are merely a host of information. In a way, you had it right. A "host" is equal to a server. The ONLY potential issue in them is having enough to cover the regions that the game is available in. But even then, it's not out of the question to make them available. Again, look at BF3. They have enough servers to cover the regions. If they can do it with less money, there's no reason Call of Duty can't do it.

       

      And nobody expects Dedicated Servers to eliminate lag completely. But taking the player out of the equation will significantly improve things. Most players are not playing on a high speed connection like a dedicated server can provide. You don't have to worry about someone running 2 laptops and their system on a 2mb connection. Lag won't disappear, but when implemented right, it will improve given that players can choose to connect to their area only.

       

      Also the game may have issues, but don't all games? Especially ones that cater to millions of people... think about it.

       

      Yer sure they could put out Dedi Servers, but it would be way too expensive, considering the game gets released year after year, they would be spending more than making, and that's not ideal for anyone is it.

       

      Yes, all games have issues... but not all games are rushed and released half-broken. That seems to be something that Call of Duty has perfected however.

       

      The only reason it would get expensive is because they decide to release every single year. That's their problem. They don't NEED to release every year as long as the game that they're releasing can actually hold gamer's attention for more than a single year at a time. They choose to release one each year because that's all people are satisfied for. If the game was good enough, they could release a title every 2 years instead of every year.

       

      That would not only give the developers time to make the game as good as it needs to be, but would make it so that they aren't shelling out money every single year for new servers for a new game.

      • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

        What you're forgetting is that Call of Duty doesn't have console servers, has never had them, and SO many more people play MW3 than BF3. It would be overwhelming and would end up as a failure.

         

        Besides, almost every issue people think will dissapate with servers can be fixed through matchmaking and netcoding adjustments in the game.

        • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
          kastro187420

          CSx121 wrote:

           

          What you're forgetting is that Call of Duty doesn't have console servers, has never had them, and SO many more people play MW3 than BF3. It would be overwhelming and would end up as a failure.

           

          Besides, almost every issue people think will dissapate with servers can be fixed through matchmaking and netcoding adjustments in the game.

           

          The problem is though, the "fixing through matchmaking and netcoding adjustments" never happens. If anything, it's seemingly gotten worse with each iteration of the series.

           

          The only reason people think it would end up as a failure is simply because they're afraid of change. The ONLY reason we're still stuck on this broken technology is because it's the cheap alternative. It's not because it's better. Say what you will about BF3 and those other titles, but while they might not have the same sales numbers of Call Of Duty, they don't possess the same networking issues as it either. Yes, games lag. They all do. But in BF3 and KZ2 even, I didn't have nearly the same amount of lag as in Call of Duty.

           

          Remember, just because Call of Duty isn't doing it, doesn't mean that they can't. It's simply a matter of choice on their part. It's the same reason we never get a Beta. They simply choose not to. It's not a matter of whether it's technologically feasible. It's a matter of whether or not they want to spend the money doing so.

    • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
      creaper21

      Obviously dedicated servers would not fix every problem, but they would only help, even if it is only a small noticable difference. And.. for me personally, I realize that for a lot of the deaths where I notice lag I probably would have died anyways, but it would be nice to see what actually happened.

       

      I made a longer, more detailed post in another thread, but I think I got my point across.

      It would at least make the game less reliant on connection(even if it's not perfect) and that's always a good thing.

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    Maybe they didn't get nominated because it's the 8th game in the series now, and people will obviously vote for something fresh, i know i would... also me and i'm sure many others don't "blindly" buy the game just for the title, we buy it because we love the game and never get as much enjoyment from any other game, plus what else is there? Homefront, Brink? hahaha don't  make me laugh anymore please.

     

    Also the game may have issues, but don't all games? Especially ones that cater to millions of people... think about it.

     

    Yer sure they could put out Dedi Servers, but it would be way too expensive, considering the game gets released year after year, they would be spending more than making, and that's not ideal for anyone is it.

    • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

      Yes but ppl love to shout dedicated servers will fix it all. When they have not did an ounce of research into it, they jsut assume its that easy and they can afford it. In fact if not done right it will make it worse, for example homefront has them but the lag there is 10 times worse then here. ITs ok though kastro only seems to make these post i assume after he has just got whooped up on, its his outlet to make him feel better its not him that got heat its teh game so bad it held him back.

      • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
        kastro187420

        Keyboard wrote:

         

        Yes but ppl love to shout dedicated servers will fix it all. When they have not did an ounce of research into it, they jsut assume its that easy and they can afford it. In fact if not done right it will make it worse, for example homefront has them but the lag there is 10 times worse then here. ITs ok though kastro only seems to make these post i assume after he has just got whooped up on, its his outlet to make him feel better its not him that got heat its teh game so bad it held him back.

         

        The irony of this statement is that you're assuming the current system they have is working. Dedicated Servers certainly wouldn't make things worse than they are. We've heard for years now that the "p2p" system (as people refer to it) can be as good as dedicated servers when done right.. but it never is.

         

        The problem with the series is the kids such as yourself who don't understand the concept of quality > quantity. Call of Duty is probably all you know in terms of games, which is why you don't appreciate a quality title.

         

        Either that you're just trying to troll. Better than being a blind fanboy, but only by a miniscule amount.

        • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

          There you go again assuming i am  a kid and a fan boy. I know the difference between the two i just don't care to get my panties all in a bunch and make a complain post every day on the hour.  BF3 is garbage so is KZ3 you can tell they put there money in the dedicated servers because the game suffers greatly. I have played both kz3 you move so slow its like there are weights on your feet, bf3 if you like bush wookies that game is for you.  I love how you completely ignore what i say because my opinion differs from your own. I have called you no names made fun of your age. I am simply saying you are making statements about a company you have no information for other then how you "think it is".  Did it every occur to you that i know this is not a quailty title that i bought it to play hour a day or so maybe 4 hours a week? Nope you were too blinded by some one who does go omg you are so right, and tries to point out flaws in your statment  and you say i am the kid. I never once said dedicated servers would not fix things, just merely pointing out mr captain Google that it might not be as feasible as you claim it to be. Its ok though i am sure david willbe along any minute now and agree with every thing you say and your ego will feel that much better.

          • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
            kastro187420

            BF3 is garbage so is KZ3 you can tell they put there money in the dedicated servers because the game suffers greatly.

            Actually, both games aren't bad. They just aren't call of duty, despite trying to draw in some of their userbase. The game's don't suffer due to Dedicated Servers or the funds put in for them. The only reason the games don't draw in the same user numbers is because everyone is too used to easy-mode (aka Call of Duty).

             

            I have played both kz3 you move so slow its like there are weights on your feet, bf3 if you like bush wookies that game is for you.

            KZ3 doesn't move that slowly, it just seems like it because you can't do 10 complete spins in 1 second or cross the entire map in 10 seconds. They're not twitch-shooters like Call of Duty. It's not that they're slow, it's that they're slower than Call of Duty.

             

             

            I am simply saying you are making statements about a company you have no information for other then how you "think it is".

            I've been playing these titles since Call of Duty 4. Many users here have been playing them since even sooner. It's not a question of "how I think it is". When asked about dedicated servers, their last real response was talking about the fact that it would cost a lot of money.

             

             

            Did it every occur to you that i know this is not a quailty title that i bought it to play hour a day or so maybe 4 hours a week?

             

            If you know that it's not a quality title, then why defend it so hard? Everyone knows at this point that the game rides on it's name alone. As I said earlier, they didn't even get nominations for goty, and lost in the one category they should have won in.... if the title was good.

             

            Why not push for them to improve the game? That's the problem we have. Nobody wants to push them for a better game. Those of us who complain are brushed off in favor of the people who are going to praise them year after year.

             

            I never once said dedicated servers would not fix things, just merely pointing out mr captain Google that it might not be as feasible as you claim it to be

             

            Since you continue to question my knowledge on the subject, and are sure it's not as feasible as we think, let me pose a question to you:

             

            Why do you think it's not feasible? What technological limitations are there that prevent it from being done? What are the costs associated with it?

             

            If you're going to question my knowledge, then I believe it to be only fair that in turn, I question yours and where you're getting your information from.

            • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

              Hmm coudlnt tell you the cost that would depend on the server, how many and where. We could do some educated guess's. For a game to be lag free and benifit from it there would have to be one in every major city from every state adn country the game is played. I am in tx there would probably need to be a good 5-10 here for one state, if you spread them out too thin your connection will suffer, plus you have to staff them and maintain them.  Unless they rented servers like BF3 and kz3 and we have already discussed how big ole piles of crap they are.  So lets put that 5-10 and put it out to every state in the us thats 250-500 server locattions, that have to be built and maintaned and staffed. Just so a few ppl will suffer less lag.  Not honestly sure how much that would cost but i am going to assume its more then it would take and still make a profit since thats the bottom line. There is nothing wrong with P2P, granted it is dependent on whomever is host. This will probably be a bad example but here goes. If i play on the weekends i see a lot of sn  suck as xx instert stupid name here xx or elite or something with numbes for letters, these are obviously childern using there parents internet, parents are not spending that much on it probably so i have bad games and its kind of crappy for me some times. During the week i see less of said screen names so less of said crappy internet. I have better connections better games. There is nothign really they can do, with it being P2P, its up to the end user and how they configure there internet. They could turn off lag compensation but then well that would be messy.  I am not taking up for this game i am just pointing out that your assumptions of cost, time and there particualr how they care level may or not be correct.

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    What game actually won GOTY?

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
    vims1990

    I don't think any COD title from now on will never win GOTY to be honest.

     

    Not because it's a terrible franchise, the series is starting to run itself into the ground. I like COD but I would to see Activision give more time to their developers to polish the game, look to using a new engine & possibly a better matchmaking/connectivity system.

     

    Unfortunately, this will never happen.

     

    There won't be that COD everyone will remember like COD4

    It's simplicity at it's finest

     

    Remember people, popularity & cash doesn't make it GOTY worthy.

    It's time spent, innovation & quality which is what makes a game "GOTY".

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
    maccabi

    the GOTY prize is not meant to reflect how well you can cut and shut to previous titles and hope no one notices hence mw3 lost

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    It was on the main page, a mod probably moved it here since he's telling the truth and they don't want their blind fans to see it.

    • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

      The mods moved it to OT even though it was on topic? Yea, I smell something fishy with that.

       

      And yes, Kastro, you are right on point with everything you said. The only reason I play CoD as much is because of friends and being a completist. If I lacked CoD fanatics, I would be on plenty of other games.

       

       

      Anyone with common sense will know that they only care about your wallet at this point. They repackage their goods and call it another name. I am a little disappointed with everyone who went to the CoD XP and claimed the game to be amazing and not the "MW2.5" that people called it because it fits its this game perfectly with so much copypasta from past CoDs.

      • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

        True. I only enjoy MW3 when I'm playing with friends now. I'm still riotshield all over the place.

         

         

        Oh and I have yet to read any of these posts besides the one Plati just made cuz it lacks intrest to me at this time.

      • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
        kastro187420

        platinumb wrote:

         

        The mods moved it to OT even though it was on topic? Yea, I smell something fishy with that.

         

        And yes, Kastro, you are right on point with everything you said. The only reason I play CoD as much is because of friends and being a completist. If I lacked CoD fanatics, I would be on plenty of other games.

         

         

        Anyone with common sense will know that they only care about your wallet at this point. They repackage their goods and call it another name. I am a little disappointed with everyone who went to the CoD XP and claimed the game to be amazing and not the "MW2.5" that people called it because it fits its this game perfectly with so much copypasta from past CoDs.

         

        That's pretty much the point I'm at right now. The only reason I even picked up MW3 was because of my friends who wanted me to get it, otherwise I wouldn't have even picked it up. Call of Duty in general just isn't as appealing as it was 4 or 5 years ago because it's the same re-hashed experience again and again.

         

        As I've said before, the very fact that they have to put out a title every single year, despite 3 or 4 DLC packs each year, just to keep people interested should say something about this series.

         

        Honestly, I want to see the series go somewhere.. I'd like to see something good come of it. It has a ton of potential, but whether the blame is laid on Activision or the developers, something has to change. Either Activision needs to give them another year to work on the game, or they need to start trying to take it into a different direction. It's not going to be long before the title alone stops selling copies.

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    OP just stop talking like you know what your talking about.

     

    Of course there are going to be problems and you expect way to much from a video game that YOU do not like. If people did not like the game they would not play it but it does not seem to play like that at all right? Why do you waste your time coming to the forums ranting on about the game is not being done in quality.

     

    They worked they ass off for MW2 from COD4 and 3arc did a good job bringing us new stuff with Black Ops. Yeah they both had they problems but its only a problem to you because you and a selected few other people can not get over yourself and realise its not the same game. Yeah it might seem like they dont try but its obvious they are trying to fix the errors they made.

     

    I mean come on now. Lets look at BF3 which was in development for multiple years beyond CoD and that game has glitches and problems to date. Im not going to waste anymore time typing up this post because your never going to understand whats really happening.

    • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
      kastro187420

      You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about with my post. I'm not talking about your basic software development glitches. I could care less about that. Glitches happen.

       

      Read my actual OP and you'll know more about what I'm discussing here. It's about the fact that year after year, we face the SAME issues repeatedly. The same mistakes are constantly made, and the overall design of the game changes very little. With the exception of CoD4 -> MW2, there hasn't been a real drastic overhaul to the series in the last 3 years. There's very little innovation being done. With Black Ops, we got Theater Mode, and MW3 we got a new Kill Streak system. That's about it in terms of innovation to the series. The majority of changes are simply new weapons/maps, and restructuring the same perks we've used pretty much throughout the series.

       

      Dedicated Servers, Beta Testing. 2 very basic things that any FPS should be using these days... and apparently the major FPS titles, with the exception of Call of Duty, DO use them. Are they flawless titles? No, but they don't encounter the same kind of issues as Call of Duty either.

       

      At this point, I run the risk of just re-hashing what I've already said, so I'll leave it at that. The overall point is:

       

      This series is going nowhere fast, and if something doesn't change, not even the name is going to be able to sell the copies needed. It's going to take more than 1 decent tweak per game to hold people's interest. Clearly this is the case seeing as how despite 4 DLC packs a year, people get tired of it that quickly.

      • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

        Dedicated Servers will not help the issues CoD is having. Lag will always be there and Dedicated Servers are expensive and you should not compare CoD to the other FPS.

         

        . Unlike the other games CoD has a significantly more amount of players on there games and the more people log and save into the servers the more expensive it becomes.

         

        Not to mention that they would have to close down the servers for the previous CoDs because it would be quite overwhelming the pocket books.

         

         

        Gross sells does not equal Profit. Yeah they made 2 billion dollars but they lose alot of it to sell, advertise, product making, shipping, it goes on.

         

        BF3 the most recent FPS has Dedicated servers BUT they charge you just to play the game multiplayer. It was about $10 and sense CoD is far bigger than Battlefield I can see them charging like 20-30 dollars just to log into a multiplayer you might not like and knowing companies they charge you even more so it would come out possibly more than that.

         

         

         

        Beta testing? Well they kind of did have a beta test at the CoD XP and it seems like none of these issues we are seeing was around then.

         

        BF3 had a beta test months before it came out and that game still had problems. 

         

        Guns are different and the maps where made like this on purpose which is also different so how exactly is this the same experience? If it was I would be going 30-4 every game and of course your going to get tired of a game. Most CoD fans play CoD for hours a day and after a while you are going to get bored and this is the same for any game, movie, and entertainment.

         

         

        I dont understand your logic. You think adding dedicated servers and beta testing will fix anything? A beta could run fine but on launch day it could do **** and thats exactly what happend in BF and it will most likely always happen.

        • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
          Biginuf

          Everyone says servers are too expensive b/c Call of Duty has more users, thats BS, the Call of Duty line has more users therefore more money to spend on servers.  The servers would be proportinate to the # of people that bought the game.  Why does everyone defend this game?  It's gone to the dumpster and we are the ones that paid for it.  You guys are probably happy with the promises they made to us on Elite too?  We all paid 40-50 bucks for Elite and 1/2 of it still doesnt work...I hope they plan on extending my one year membership from the time that it is 100% operational....I know I paid 100% of the money that they wanted for this garbage.

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
    nuttin2say

    Here we go again. Same people. Same complaint. Same lack of facts. Same lack of economic knowledge. Same lack of common sense.

     

    No, dude, you have not done your  research.

     

    Gross sales does not equal gross profit.

     

    Watch the credits to MW3. You'll discover that with this title alone there are easily 1000 people and organizations involved with producing MW3. If, on average, each person was only earning $30,000 a year - no including the taxes the corporation has to pay for simply employing a person - you're looking at between $30 million and $50 million worth of salary alone.

     

    And I'd venture to say that, since most of those working on this project live in the most expensive small towns in California, they are probably making well over 30 grand a year.

     

    I'd say payroll alone on a typical COD title runs in the $300 million range - per year. At $1 billion a title, you've just spent 30% of the revenues.

     

    Then there are the licenses ... the facilities ... the travel to see how weapons and other things work in the real world (to bring that element of realism that no one believes is a factor in the game ... there's the equipment to actually program the game ... I'd say that's easily another $200 - 250 million. But we'll go with $200 million just to make things easy for people to understand.

     

    There's the insurance and lawyers that have to be paid - because even though none of you think  it is possible to sue a game maker, it is. There's legal BS that has to be fulfilled and if it isn't, the company can be sued - even the government can sue the company. Anyway, figure another, eh, $50 million there.

     

    Ok. So we are now at $550 million to produce the game.

     

    Oh. Wait. There's the marketing, as well. Drop another $50 million there (and I am fairly confident that is being conservative).

     

    $600 million to produce a game that will generate $1 billion or so in gross revenues.

     

    $1 billion in gross revenue minus $600 million in gross costs = $400 million in gross profit.

     

    Gross profit. Not net profit.

     

    You're president, Unkle Obama?

     

    He gets 35% of the $400 million and the state of California gets another 10%.

     

    Net profit?

     

    $220 million.

     

    And that's probably underestimating all the costs involved.

     

    Investment = $780 million

     

    Total profit = $220 million

     

    Not that great of a return, truth be known.

     

    Worth investing in a bank of servers that are good for only one game release?

     

    Pass.

    • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
      kastro187420

      nuttin2say wrote: <lots of stuff>

       

      What you're failing to understand is that despite how much they're putting out, lesser companies with less money are putting out much higher quality games. I like to use BF3 because it's the closest competitor. How much do you suppose they've put out into their title? Last I heard, on marketing alone, they were authorizing $100 million on Marketing. And despite having less money on return than CoD, they're giving away their first map pack free (to pre-order customers), running dedicated servers, had a Beta, and are working on additional titles.

       

      When it comes to Call of Duty, let's not forget that they have multiple map packs they're releasing. If we assume even 4 DLC packs per year, at $15/pack, we're looking at people spending an additional $60 per year on the game. Assuming just 1 million people, cross-platform, buy those DLC packs, that's still an additional $60 Million for that year alone.

       

      However, the question "Is it worth the investment" does deserve some discussion. Considering that even with todays technology we still haven't overcome the hurdle of people with barely a 1mb/s upload being allowed to host, the constant server disconnects, and the number of latency issues, I would say it's at least worth a try. Certainly it couldn't be any worse off than it is today.

       

      Clearly what we have today doesn't work on any serious level. It might work in the sense that people can play, but the trade off of all the connection related issues that the game gets in return, THAT is what I would say isn't worth the investment.

       

      Even more so, I'm willing to bet that there enough people out there who would be willing to pay an increased price in the overall title if it meant supporting Dedicated Servers and a better overall experience. So it's not like the cost isn't going to be met or is going to make Activision go broke any time soon.

      • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

        No need for dedicated servers, current system is fine. I live in a remote country and would suffer by having dedicated servers. So the host has a lsight advantge, big deal, use your skills and conquer.

        i wil lsay that personally MW3 is not my cup of tea and I much prefer Black Ops. I think the map layouts are more appealing. Lets just hope that the new map pack for MW£ gives us some decent maps

      • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
        nuttin2say

        Kastro ...

         

        I appreciate a well-thought out, rational response.

         

        That said, I guess my bias is that I've run a company and have been involved with management decisions for over 20 years (yes, even when I was in high school). Add onto that I just finished a micro-economics course.

         

        To explain how companies think ... man, that takes a lot of time and space. If you want to send me your email, I can scan and send you a copy of my notes from the past four months of learning about basic economic principles and theory.

         

        Trust me: Battlefield IS following the exact same basic business model that Call of Duty is following. They have to. If not, they'll go bankrupt and pretty damned fast. In fact, there is no guarantee they won't fail at their current business plan anyway.

         

        But here's the important thing:

         

        Just because a company is investing a lot of money in its game, that does not mean the franchise is profitable.

         

        Up to BF3,  the game has probably been minimally profitable. There was a time when i would have said "marginally" but now that I have instilled in my brain a new meaning for that term, I can't bring myself to use it. Marginal Profit is NOT the relative size of the overall profit of a firm/game. Marginal Profit is the amount of profit for the next unit produced. Arggh.

         

        Anyway. Investment does not reflect profitability. A lot of people make that mistake and lose many, many millions every day.

         

        Look, the bottom line is that the next generation of consoles are due, maybe even past due, to hit the market. Battlefield is making an investment now for no other reason but in an attempt to gain market share. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that BF3 is a net loser for Dice/whomever the parent company is.

         

        It's kind of like they are trying to have a price war right now. But no one is changing the actual price so what they do instead is increase the number of features - whether or not those features actually benefit the consumer does not matter - it is the perception that you get more for your money.

         

        Economics 101. Not rhetorically, for real. Take the course at your local community college. You'll see what I'm talking about.

         

        It would be economic suicide for Activision to invest in dedicated servers at this time. I promise you.

        • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
          kastro187420

          I'm not suggesting that dedicated servers are going to turn a massive profit. I realize that it's going to cost them a pretty penny to invest and provide them. I'm also not doubting that you don't know what you're talking about.

           

          My point however is very clear:

           

          While you may believe it to be ecnomic suicide for Activision to invest in them (even if they intend to do so in the future), we must consider that NOT taking the steps necessary to secure the franchise is going to result in a dead franchise by the time they actually get around to doing it.

           

          As I've said before, Call of Duty is going to reach a point where it no longer can sell on the name alone. What are they going to do when that point is reached? What are they going to do when their flagship series becomes the next Guitar Hero? Without Call of Duty, activision is going to have to go back to relying on Tony Hawk to keep them afloat.

           

          They could put out the money today, and start moving the franchise towards a new direction (in terms of technology), and make sure that everything is there to secure the series, or they can keep sitting on it while everyone else puts in the investment ahead of them, and watch their flagship series go down.

           

          It may not happen in the next couple of years, but it will be soon. I would like to think that not even securing a nomination in Goty shows that, and losing to a game in "Best Multiplayer" whose only MP component is a 2-player co-op mode.

           

          I think we can all agree (even if we disagree about dedi's) that it's not a good sign when they can't win the one category their entire franchise is built upon.

          • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
            nuttin2say

            I knew it was too good to be true. You're  just not going to make a comment without trying to insult someone.

             

            Too bad these forums don't have and ignore button.

             

            www.vfinance.com

             

            There you go. Exhaustive list of venture capital firms and angel investors.

             

            You know so much about making a game that's profitable, do it. Take a look at, oh, half a dozen firms listed on that site. You'll notice almost all of them are looking for the next greatest software - which includes games.

             

            There are literally THOUSANDS of companies  ready, willing - EAGER - to invest money in the "right" way to produce a billion dollar game.

             

            In other words, finding the money to do it is easy.

             

            Go do it, Mr. Brilliant.

            • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
              kastro187420

              Who exactly did I insult, or try to insult? I'm not sure if you're just seeing what you want to see or not, but I've read through my post, and there is nothing insulting towards anyone posted.

               

              If you're going to accuse me of doing something and are going to make a big deal about it, post your evidence to support your claim.

              • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?
                nuttin2say

                I'm also not doubting that you don't know what you're talking about.

                 

                If I don't know about something, I make that disclosure in whatever I have to say.

                 

                For example, I am not a programmer, a designer, nor a developer. But I do know this - those that ARE and have been posting in these threads? Most of them make sense and actually  put out information that can be verified.

                 

                It just so happens that I have an in-law that has a master's in game design and I've had a lot of conversations with him.

                 

                The bottom line is this: Dedicated Servers, while they might "help," are NOT the solution. Knowing this, developers ask the next logical question - because it is an economics question - will the bring ENOUGH help to JUSTIFY the expense.

                 

                Overwhelmingly the answer is NO.

                 

                So why do some do it and others do not?

                 

                Simply so that they can tell the potential customers, "Hey! Buy our product - we use dedicated servers!"

                 

                And they are not lying when they tell you, "It REDUCES lag related issues."

                 

                But it does not solve those issues.

                 

                There is NEVER one or two people on a game design/development team that is critical to the creation and production of a game. NEVER. To think there is a "god" of game design and development is akin to saying the NY Yankees  will never win another World Series withou Alex Rodriguez. Really? I doubt that. In fact, I'll make a prediction: the year after he leaves the Yankees, the Yankees will win the World Series.

                 

                The reason I talk about the design and development team is because not every team is all that great.

                 

                I think Battlefield probably has a pretty good team. But the man in charge of that team is misguided. He's too focused upon "beating" Call of Duty. Thus he spends money on shyt that does not matter - for no other reason but to get people to convert to Battlefield instead of Call of Duty.

                 

                Frankly, I DGAS which game is "better" in the view of the community. I actually like the concept Battlefield far more than I do COD. But my experience with Battlefield is not good. The lag was just as bad as it is with COD. Finding a match was difficult (granted I was playing BFBC2 - but  it was well prior to the current release). The greatest disappointment of all was discovering there are what? Three maps? Are you serious??

                 

                Pass. I'll stick with Call of Duty for the time being.

                 

                There is a lot of thought - A LOT OF THOUGHT - that goes into any multi-million dollar venture. To sit in these forums and think that decisions, like whether or not to use dedicated servers, are made lightly and without deep, deep consideration and research is simply naive  and shows a lack of genuine knowledge of any business, and particularly the business in question - game development.

                 

                As for why MW3 was not nominated for GotY, I'll give you an example of what happens when media nominates the same "best of" product year after year after year. Years ago Motor Trend got into the habit of naming Toyota and GM "This of the Year!" Woohoo! Yay! The problem was that SOME - not all, but some - of those products were, being blunt - pure  effing junk. Notice Motor Trend rarely, if ever, does a "down the road" follow up on "Cars of the Year"?

                 

                What happens is both the industry AND manufacturers finally got fed up with it. Car makers found themselves designing and building cars that would make Motor Trend happy. Well what they finally realized, especially in Ford's case, was that no matter how great a car you made? Motor Trend would still nominate someone else's car. Worse, the public simply was not buying cars that met all of Motor Trend's standards.

                 

                Now some reviewers realize the "favorite" trap. As a result, they  mix up thier standards now and then and, what do you know, a new brand is the "best of."

                 

                And, frankly, it should be that way and you want it to be that way. Why? Because you're absolutely right - when you get down to the brass tacks, there really has not been any massive changes to the Call of Duty franchise since COD4: MW.

                 

                But  there is a business reason behind that, believe me. It all has to do with economic theory. Each title represents a short run business plan. They are destined to lose interest among consumers. Thus, each title is really nothing more than a tweak of production.

                 

                In the long run, yes, the series will lose interest and fall by the way side. When? Who knows. Key will be a "better" product.

                 

                Right now, frankly, BF is in the right direction - but it still is not a better product. Right now they have a ton of options when it comes to weapons. But who cares? That's like playing rust over and over and over again but all you ever really change up is which weapons you use.

                 

                I'm not that impressed with MW3, to be frank. The series needs a massive facelift - like what MW1 brought to the title.

                 

                To me, who cares which game is better right now? This is definitely not the future of gaming.

                 

                That's why I keep saying the next generation of consoles leaves everything up in the air - including Battlefield.

                 

                I tell you what. If the next-gen consoles have just twice the  computing power they have now plus are more capable of host-serving (like we have now)?

                 

                Then, yes, Battlefield is probably going to take over Call of Duty - unless, like I said, massive changes come to COD.

                 

                But I really think they are either going to have to skip a year of production OR bring in a third development team.

                 

                My bets are they will do neither until they actually see a huge loss of sales. Then they'll skip a year, maybe two, of releasing a title and, hopefully then, they'll re-invent the FPS again.

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    Dedicated servers may cure the serious lag problem but it won't perform miracles.  Lag is just one of the many problems MW3 has.  How about the spawn system...which is garbage btw and also the chat quality as well.  I didn't expect MW3 to be perfect obviously but I didn't expect it to be WORSE than Black Ops.  The game just generated $1 billion dollars.  It did that because I'm sure EVERYONE thought it was going to be better than Black Ops(year old game).  I did, that's why I got the Hardened edition...which was a HUGE WASTE of $$$!  If Infinity Ward makes the next COD game I'm DEFINITELY NOT getting it.  

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    Dedicated servers may cure the serious lag problem but it won't perform miracles.  Lag is just one of the many problems MW3 has.  How about the spawn system...which is garbage btw and also the chat quality as well.  I didn't expect MW3 to be perfect obviously but I didn't expect it to be WORSE than Black Ops.  The game just generated $1 billion dollars.  It did that because I'm sure EVERYONE thought it was going to be better than Black Ops(year old game).  I did, that's why I got the Hardened edition...which was a HUGE WASTE of $$$!  If Infinity Ward makes the next COD game I'm DEFINITELY NOT getting it.  

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    Dedicated servers may cure the serious lag problem but it won't perform miracles.  Lag is just one of the many problems MW3 has.  How about the spawn system...which is garbage btw and also the chat quality as well.  I didn't expect MW3 to be perfect obviously but I didn't expect it to be WORSE than Black Ops.  The game just generated $1 billion dollars.  It did that because I'm sure EVERYONE thought it was going to be better than Black Ops(year old game).  I did, that's why I got the Hardened edition...which was a HUGE WASTE of $$$!  If Infinity Ward makes the next COD game I'm DEFINITELY NOT getting it.  

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    Dedicated servers may cure the serious lag problem but it won't perform miracles.  Lag is just one of the many problems MW3 has.  How about the spawn system...which is garbage btw and also the chat quality as well.  I didn't expect MW3 to be perfect obviously but I didn't expect it to be WORSE than Black Ops.  The game just generated $1 billion dollars.  It did that because I'm sure EVERYONE thought it was going to be better than Black Ops(year old game).  I did, that's why I got the Hardened edition...which was a HUGE WASTE of $$$!  If Infinity Ward makes the next COD game I'm DEFINITELY NOT getting it.  

  • Re: Want to know why you guys weren't even NOMINATED for GOTY?

    Dedicated servers may cure the lag problem but it won't perform miracles.  Lag is just one of the many problems MW3 has.  How about the spawn system...which is garbage btw and also the chat quality as well.  MW3 just generated $1 billion dollars.  It did that because I'm sure EVERYONE thought it was going to be better than Black Ops(year old game).  I did, that's why I got the Hardened edition...which was a HUGE WASTE of $$$!  If Infinity Ward makes the next COD game I'm DEFINITELY NOT getting it.