45 Replies Latest reply: Dec 19, 2012 12:02 AM by jairumaximus RSS

The KSG is just bad.

asianman12

First things first. I am talking about it stock. I haven't used it with any attachments to make a point.

 

The KSG stock(like other shotguns only worse) is just useless. I am sorry but it is.  The range is horrible. The spread is horrible. Hit detection is horrible. The gun is just horrible. 

 

I couldn't win most CQ fights because of how bad the hit detection is with the KSG.  The range is basically 5 feet=1HK and anything after that is >2.  This makes no sense. How do you level up these guns without having to just go extremely negative every game?  With every other gun in this game, they are useable stock. But apparently the shotguns got the boot in that department. 

 

Much like the spas thread I made, I will post a video showing how it isn't me that is bad, it is actually the gun being very inconsistant and just pretty much useless. 

 

I know there will be people that disagree, but after you see the video you will see how frustrating things are while trying to use it. 

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.

    With the pumps you have bite the bullet till you get the power attachement.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    T-dubbyf4i

    Yep I've been playing with it. I won't even get hit markers at times. randomly long shot kills and alot of times 2ft hitmarkers. It's really rough trying to level it up. Like realllllly rough. You have to pretty much stand on someone to kill them and even then that's 50/50 shot

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    asianman12

    Also I am only talking about Core here.  Don't even think about saying they are fine in hardcore. That isn't the point.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.

    Q: "How do you level up these guns without having to just go extremely negative every game?"

    A: You don't. If you want a maxed-out, a/k/a "sort of effective," manual-action shotgun, then you have to suck it up for 30-50 games. That (alas) is just how it works.

    • Re: The KSG is just bad.
      asianman12

      randomguy987 wrote:

       

      Q: "How do you level up these guns without having to just go extremely negative every game?"

      A: You don't. If you want a maxed-out, a/k/a "sort of effective," manual-action shotgun, then you have to suck it up for 30-50 games. That (alas) is just how it works.

      That just sucks. Really. Why? Why can't the shotguns be useable just like every other weapon?  Is that really their idea of balance?

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    deucedouglas

    Lol. Overall with the KSG I'm 1-5 with 100% accuracy. Speaks for itself.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    asianman12

    Here is the video. Apparently when it got uploaded, it skipped two good clips and totally screwed up the rest of the video.  There are still a couple O.K. clips to show what I am talking about though.  If you need more proof, just copy the title and search youtube. There are apparently plenty of videos on the subject.

     

     

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia7kvpdQCZQ

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.

    No reason to use any shotties not named AA12, SPAS, and Striker.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.

    all of the shotguns are incredibly bad apart from the striker which is the only reliable shotgun in the game.

     

    seriously the shotguns need to be buffed its not fun getting a hitmarker on a guy right infront of you only for him to knife you. shotguns are supposed to kill some one in 1 hit close range not 3 hits

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    wsb991

    I don't remember ever getting a 1 hit kill with a ksg. I tried using it for a couple of matches and even a point blank (in knifing range) shot to the chest did not kill the enemy on multiple occasions.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.

    To begin with i thought that the shotguns were rubbish but after i spent some time using them, i can say they are ******* brilliant in my vault i think i put gameplays of moabs with the Ksg  Spas and Model i will check later on. As soon as you unlock range and damage on most of the shotguns and you can play smart you will generally top kills and Best KD.     My tips for shotguns mainly the Spas and Ksg is to play hardcore until level 23 then go onto core, when you get damage for the Ksg it is probs the best shotgun in the game apart from the model with damage due to its range.

    • Re: The KSG is just bad.
      Brick2urFace

      spas is better in all of the ksg's range.  Just because you had good games with them does not make them good.  Player skill does not determine weapon quality.  I have a 50-7 game with scorpion only, the scorpion would be a crap primary.  Range only does more damage than damage past 560 inches with pumps.  Shotguns are terrible in gunfights at that range any way so its better to avoid those fights.  Mlc stealth has a silenced spas moab.  That gun is not good with a silencer.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    scolia5044

    Yea it does suck without the grip but this shottie actuallly takes skill and with Assassin Pro Dead Silence Pro you will learn too enjoy this great gun of course your going too go negative if you use this gun on every map.I enjoy i wouldnt like it if i sucked using it also

    • Re: The KSG is just bad.

      i was raped all day with kids using this gun

       

      yes they had damage and grip..

       

      but suck it up..

       

      this game should of been this way from the start

       

      you kids expect to pick up any gun and use it as a laser pointer

       

      ie: ACR, T95

       

       

      go play bond if you want to play MP with shotties

    • Re: The KSG is just bad.
      Brick2urFace

      WTF does grip do.  Extended mags gives 50% extra pellets and more ammo in the tube.  So what possible benefit could grip have over that.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.

    I've been working on leveling up my KSG but I had to put it back on the shelf for now.  It is absolutely horrible.  I have a gold Spas, 1887 and striker but this KSG is by far the worst piece of garbage in the game.  There is such a disparity between shotguns and any other weapon it looks like some kind of joke. 

     

    Any argument that you should have to suffer and work up to a good shotgun is just plain idiotic.  NONE of the other weapons are this gimpy out of the box.  These shotguns should be good out of the box.  The entire "Damage" proficiency is a joke.  It needs to be part of the gun from the start.  The striker is the only one that can be left as-is, all the others need a huge boost. 

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    yovlud

    Even with the "range" proficiency, it still sucks something awful. 

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    Brick2urFace

    The pumps are just bad altogether.  (although the spas + specialist bonuus feels nice)  The ksg is definitely the worst of the bunch.  Stock it takes 4 out of 6 pellets to kill close and 8 out of 6  pellets to kill at max range.  Even with the best configuration the ksg is still hot garbage.  It take 3 out of 9 to kill close to 5 out of 9 to kill long.  The spas take 3 out of 12 close and at ksg's max range the spas takes 7 out of 12 about 58% which is about the same as the ksg at 55% pellets hit at max range to kill.  So the spas completely outclasses the ksg in all of its range.  The spas still isn't very good.  Its close range damage is good at 420 but its long damage it terrible at 84.  Here is what the pumps should be like in mw3  35-17 on the damage proficiency with the spas firing 12 pellets.  The 1887 should be 50-28 firing 8 pellets and haveing a little tighter spread than the spas to compensate for small clip and no attachments (and a frickin goofy feeling cocking action).  The ksg needs a major overhaul 50-25 damage firing 9 pellets ( this gun should have massive damage to compensate for lowest range and rate of fire of all pump shotguns.)  This give the ksg 450-225 damage (the mw2 spas did 448-224 but had over 12 ft more range than the ksg and the mw2 spas' damage dropped at 500 inches instead of 400 inches with the ksg.)  So the ksg would be a mw2 spas with less range, rate of fire, and a faster damage drop off.  I think these would make mw3 shotguns a viable option along side smgs and remain well balanced with the rest of mw3 weapons.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    Brick2urFace

    They need to make the damage proficiency add more damage for the shotguns to be competative in core.

    • Re: The KSG is just bad.
      slap1i

      The trick to using the pumps is to engage enemies only within it's effective range.  The MOAB video above shows a good player who knows the KSG well enough to stick to the tight sections of the map, and apparently it works well enough.  The developer had to be aware of the possibility of a One Shot Kill gun being OP, and did a good job to keep it balanced.

       

      You guys can discount the pump shottys all you want.  More buckshot for me!

      • Re: The KSG is just bad.
        Brick2urFace

        I have a 40-1 spas 12 moab on outpost, I am well aware of the shotguns capabilities.  The thing is the shotguns only become competative when you run specialist.  I have not seen an assault killstreak moab with a pump yet.  The specialist bonus makes the pumps useable.  And all of the suggestions I have made only make the weapons more reliable.  35-17 on the spas would be the same, only it wouldn't get 3+ hitmarkers at range anymore.  The Spas really only becomes worthless in the last 100-200 inches of its 700 inch range.  The 1887 with 50-25 would be more reliable up close.  If a guy has a vest on it takes 50% of the pellets to kill him with the 1887.  50-25 damage only increases its abilities in the first 25 ft.  After 25 ft. the 1887 would act exactly the same as it does now.  The 1887 also needs its spread tightened to a little tighter than the spas' spread.  Now there is no possible way that you can make an argument that the ksg is a good weapon in any way.  Every smg outclasses it entirely.  They either need to make the ksg do 50-25 damage firing 9 pellets.   Or give the ksg the same range as the spas and 1887.  I don't want them to change the base shotguns.  I only want these damages put on the damage proficiency.  I want base shotties to suck so bad players cant just whore out shotties like mw2.  Only the dedicated deserve better shoties.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    Brick2urFace

    every smg can beat shotguns in terms of effectiveness.  And a good smg will absolutely destroy shotguns by comparison.  If you play exactly the same as you would with shotguns, but you use smgs instead you will be able to tell the large difference in effectiveness.

    • Re: The KSG is just bad.
      slap1i

      While this may be true (it is!), racking up kills with the MP7 isn't nearly as rewarding.  I play objective gametypes where kill count doesn't win the game.  The Model is plenty effective, and more often than not is good enough to get the win.

      • Re: The KSG is just bad.
        Brick2urFace

        Ripping teams appart in mw2 with the spas was way more rewarding than struggling with the mw3 spas.  I think you are mixing up how important it is for a weapon to be effective with how important it is to be rewarding.  Primary weapons should all be effective in their own right.  Each primary has a specific role that it does well.  If these shotguns were secondaries they could have that rewarding feeling you are talking about but if you are going to make a weapon a primary, it better do some damage.  Every class of weapon has an effective representative, there are multiple assault rifles that are tied for effectiveness, there are 2-4 smgs that are really good.  There is a great semi auto sniper in the barrett, both bolt actions are great, there is one "good" shotgun that does the job a shotgun should.  The striker is the only shotgun i have seen that can even nearly compete with other primaries in all of its range.  There is no good pump, and there is no good auto shottie because their effectiveness is limited to only part of its already limited range.  The skill required to do well with a shotgun far exceed the skill to do well with any other weapon in the game at the same range.  I am fine with shotguns being high skill weapons but they need to balance skill with effectiveness.  The harder and more risky the weapon is to use the more damage it should do. 

        • Re: The KSG is just bad.
          slap1i

          Out of curiosity, how may shotgun kills do you have?

        • Re: The KSG is just bad.
          asianman12

          What I think is pretty stupid is the fact that most of these maps are close quarters. But most of the shotguns are pretty much ineffective in most of them. I don't know how many times i have said or heard someone else say it, but I shouldn't need grip and extended mags + range or damage just to start seeing positive gameplay.

           

          I could pick up any AR or SMG stock and do well because they all work correctly.   The inaccuracy of the shotties(excluding Striker of course) needs to be fixed.  And I am not talking about inaccuracy on a skill level but on an actual performace level. There are videos showing the effective ranges of the shotties in a private match. It shows them working within certain ranges, but it doesn't show how lag and a moving target totally ruins their effectiveness and screws up the whole point of showing the shotties working correctly.

           

          I just wish they would consider a buff or something to make the other shotguns useable right out of the box instead of forcing people to endure failure after failure just to get one good game after 50 bad ones.

          • Re: The KSG is just bad.
            slap1i

            I'm wondering if your difficulties in using the shotguns has more to do with lag than the weapons stats.  I never have lag, and I've never viewed the shotguns as that much worse than other options (SMG AR).  I know that pellet placement is key to racking up One Shot Kills, and a little lag would produce a lot more hit markers.

          • Re: The KSG is just bad.
            Brick2urFace

            Think about it though.  If they kept the base shotguns the smae and just buffed the crap out of the damage proficiency then we would be the only people with boss shotguns.  If you make it to damage you basicly get a mw2 style shotgun.  That would be something worth seeing.  I give up all my stats and emblems and titles and all that gay crap just to have The mw2 spas back in this game.  But I don't want people to just be a ble to pick up shotguns like in mw2,  I want it to be hard and truely awefull, but the rewards should be glorious.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    smokesdope

    I love my Spaz 12 now .Got it gold last night and it is BEAST yes leveling it up is soul destroying and if you really care about your K:D then you may not want to try but it is worth it .I only use it on the smaller maps (DOME) or Seatown where most of the fighting is done in the tight alleyways.I love the reactions of people when you sneak up on them and blow them in half and they $hit themselfs lol.Also a map that I really didnt like was Arkadden but it is brill with the shotty and I really enjoy it now.So hang in there and level it up its worth it in the end.

    • Re: The KSG is just bad.
      slap1i

      I think Lockdown (favorite) and Underground are my favorite shotty maps, as long as you stick to CQC.

    • Re: The KSG is just bad.
      Brick2urFace

      The spas is okay when fully leveled.  Damage + extended mags make it a nice cqc weapon out to about 450 inches.  But once the spas passes 600 inches it is useless.  The spas is just a beefed up ksg that can deliver hang-nail magnitude damage beyong the ksg's range.  Unless you run specialist and get the bonus that unlocks range and damage.  A specialist spas feels like a fully leveled spas should.  Shotguns should be the most feared gun in the game at close range but I get woried more by any smg, assault rifle, akimbo machine pistol, and acog+kick semi auto snipers.  I would say that almost 80% of my deaths come after I get a hitmarker on a guy who then sprays me down before I can chamber my next round.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.

    Brick2urFace about your reply to my previous post i would say add murphsterr on Xbl and ill play on any map online witha shotgun of your choice , i will try and find my nuke with a KSG on Interchange, also the KSG is a OHK if you time shots well and get close enough before giving away your position. But i do agree it is the weakest shotgun but i disagree with all the people saying the striker is the best shotgun, Imo due to the range and damage of the model 1887 it is by far the best shotgun with either range or damage proffeciancy

    • Re: The KSG is just bad.
      Brick2urFace

      Mine is Brick2urFace, I will add you soon.  The semester just started so I'm pretty busy, possibly this weekwnd.  And the 1887 is only better than the spas past 550 inches.  The spread on the 1887 is too large to be effective without steady aim so I find it relatively useless compared to the spas.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.
    Moon Head 92

    Speaking of the KSG, earlier on dome someone on the enemy team was using it with damage, and he completely owned me, seriously i just couldn't kill him ... didn't send him a message, instead a "well done"... so yer the KSG is terrible stock, but when you get damage it is defianetly good.

     

    The thing that bothers me is, you have to get that thing and all the other shotties (apart from striker) to level 28 to be remotely useful, well the AA-12 to level 23 .... whilst all the other primaries are good stock?... yer REAL balanced.

    • Re: The KSG is just bad.

      I have Ksg damage and it still kinda sucks for me.

      I think why many of us think the shotguns are beast with extended mags and damage is because of simply the sheer difference between the stock and fully leveled.

  • Re: The KSG is just bad.

    Totally understand you man. This gun is the reason why I stopped having fun with bo2. I am an overachiever and with that I want gold camo on all my guns but the ksg... no sir... i got five bloodthirsty left to get it but getting those five kills without dying with a gun where point black or even if the oponent is not moving and i ads on his body will still miss if a lot a lot of fun. Even with long barrel, adjustable stock, and reflex sight/laser this thing will miss so much that isnt even funny. And on a bigger point I hate how this game is all about smg... I love my diamond pdw dont get me wrong but I much prefer playing with the AN 94 if i knew i wouldnt be in a disavantage every match. Anyhow... let me get back to trying to get this dam five bloodthirsty.