34 Replies Latest reply: Dec 29, 2011 2:52 PM by Klstixbro RSS

I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.

Is this fair?

  • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.
    mdub

    rushallday wrote:

     

    Is this fair?

    You dont pay $200 for internet, just like lag compensation doesnt help a $30 connection own you.

  • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.
    vims1990

    I'm either behind or ahead of the action going on in the game. I don't really get this "even playing field" that others experience.

     

    Last night, I was having terrible matches. I don't know what it was but bullets didn't register, I was dumping half a clip when they were shooting me with a couple of bullets and I was dying around corners. I was losing CQC using a SMG against an Assault Rifle.  It was pretty much this for an entire game for me and I was 4 barring the entire time.

     

     

    Be aware this is just an example, just a random player's clip I encountered over YouTube but a similar experience.

     

    Our team were winning as per normal but I just wasn't having a good time so I switched off the XBOX.

     

    Woke up this morning, switched on the XBOX 360 and I was getting better games. Hit registration was spot on & getting much better scores.

     

    It's a hit & miss for me in MW3. Sometimes I experience b.s, sometimes I'm on god mode & nothing can stop me.

     

    I wish it was more consistant giving every player that "even playing field" but so far for me, I feel like I'm ahead or behind what I see on my screen (sync issues).

     

    Rushallday, I do have a question though.

     

    How do you know that the opposing player that kills you has crappy internet?

    You won't know until you ask every player on the opposing team their location, speedtest, pingtest (the works) in whether they have a crappy connection or not. They could even possibly have a stronger connection.

     

    My point is in my post is that you're going to have b.s. moments in why you died whether it's by lag or just poor hit detection. I get that too, I die, look at the killcam & "facepalm". The issue in MW3 is that it isn't consistant whether you're an average or good player.

     

    You stated in a previous thread that you have around 2.3 K/D so you much not be having alot of b.s. moments. Honestly, when I come across 2-3 K/D players, most of them are non objective & stay in their spawn trying so hard to keep their K/D intact or they dashboard (which I find sad).

     

    Hell, I would be happy with a 2.3 K/D if I rushed (just judging by your username )

    Personally, I had a goal for a 2 K/D using a similar rushing style that I've used in Black Ops but I can only muster up a 1.7 K/D.

    • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.

      That video describes every day for me! Sure some games are better than others but the majority of times is that exact scenario. Theres an issue and I doubt they are going to EVER fix it.

    • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.
      papaxs

      Wow, if you call that death in the video a lag comp death you are mistaken!  I watched that video over and over and what I saw, both of you guys started shooting at the same time, you started to flinch and your shots went off the mark and his shots remained true.  IMHO, the correct person won that gun fight.

       

      If you want to see a vid on bad lag comp, I wish I could up load mine, because mine goes like this, from my perspective, I see I guy, start to shoot and before I get one shot off, maybe one I get killed with one bullet.  Watch the kill cam and the guy got 5-6 shots off.

      • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.
        kholland65

        I disagree. Watch the video again. He gets off 4-5 bullets before he takes his first hit causing him to flinch. For the most part every AR is a 3 bullet kill from a medium to short range such as this, even if its in the leg (trust me I tested it on LAN). The guy who killed him should have been dead long before he even got a shot off since POV's aim was spot on.

         

        This kind of sh*t is the story of my life. Some games it never happens and I literally almost go 30-0, other games it seems to happen almost every gun fight and I struggle to go positive. I do what everyone else does. The second I start getting a few WTF deaths like this I just leave the game.

         

        I would also attribute this mostly to lag comp or at the very least something else lag related. I don't think its an issue of game programming simply not registering bullets that hit. It's just that the guy is actually a few steps to the side of where you see him. So while on your screen (killcam included) if appears as if your shots are connecting, in actuallity (and on his screen) your shots are missing a few feet to the side. I know lag is just part of any online fps but its never seemed so prevelent and game changing in any other fps or COD title for that matter which is what makes me cry foul.

  • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.

    1. How do you know the dude that kills you pays 30$ for his internet?

     

    2.  Why do you pay 200$ for internet?

     

    3. I don't care about what your bandwidth is. It doesn't help in this situation. Only your ping.

     

    4. Lag Compensation does not punish you for having more bandwidth than another person. The dude could be paying 30 bucks for his internet, but probably has it optimized for the lowest ping, 0 packet loss, and little to no jitter and that is why he beat you. Or you could just be bad.

  • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.
    avengedyesterday

    If you are paying 200 just for the internet through Uverse, you are getting shafted. Uverse sucks anyways, they should be sued for their false advertising of fiber optic connections, which it isn't.

     

    It doesn't matter what connection you run. With lag comp and everyone trying to manipulate the system for their advantage this game will never right right 100% of the time. You are extremely lucky if it works flawlessly 60% of the time. It's a coin toss everytime you join a game in MW3. I just got out of a game against christmas noobs and it was like my 24% accuracy was 0 and i still managed to win.

  • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.

    Money does not necessarily equate to quality of service.

     

    Some really big providers that charge through the nose, are sometimes the very worst possible choice in a given area.

     

    Almost all ISP's charge on a tier model, more money = more bandwidth.

     

    those that think high bandwidth equates to better gaming, are wrong.  Simple ignorance or learning impediment, whichever is the cause(ignorant isn't necessarily an insult here, just means you don't have adequate information).

     

    This game takes very little bandwidth for a client to join a game.  5-10k/s(whatever the label is for actual download rates.)  Host, at most, takes that times 12(or 16 for groundwar).

     

    Even cheap DSL, 1MB(whatever the label for the package is), at 100k/s up and down for actual rates, is just fine for gaming(unless one has high ping being further from the actual ISP).  Now, keep in mind, some DSL packages will throttle upload, and/or charge extra to have that limit lifted(mine does), but in the past, and some places still, DSL has a tendency to have more capable upload ratio's.  Couple that with line quality, and it really can be the ultimate connection for FPS gaming. (CAN be...isn't always).

     

    Beyond a certain relatively tiny minimum, bandwidth matters for Fark all when it comes to restricted games(IE shooters with a medium sized lobby).  Ping and line quality are what make gaming good, or bad. 

     

    Couple that with people trying to play on a medium connection, while downloading or watching netflix, the game's awry compensation and matchmaking methods, and even normal internet lag, and what you are paying for internet is largely irrelevant.

     

    Please, try to educate yourself before starting such innane threads.

  • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.

    Lag compensation is a major issue.  If you don't realize or understand all of the complaints is because it doesn't happen to you for whatever reason.  You're just the lucky ones.  for those of us victimized by it, it's a gamebreaking issue and takes any sort of enjoyment out of playing this game.  I can hop on BF3 any time and never have lag, it's not my internet, it's the game.  It's not hard to notice it either, we are a full second behind at least, that's HUGE.

    • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.
      vims1990

      I wouldn't exaggerate with "full second."

       

      It more like miliseconds but in online gaming, even a couple of miliseconds can make a difference in whether you win a gunfight or not.

       

      By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you that there is an issue when it comes to the lag compensation set in MW3. I'm just pointing out that you're exaggerating with "full second."

      • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.

        From what I've seen playing at two different locations being host is BAAAD.  My brother almost always gets host, and playing when I visit there sucks balls.  Like, big bloated maggot filled balls from a 2 week dead goat.

         

        At home, I play just fine as a client.  He has a better average ping, and we both have the same line quality(DSL has pretty good quality when it comes to packet loss and such).  his upload is better than mine, first time i've been glad the my ISP throttles the upload to small amounts and charges for an unlock.

         

        Well, that was a tangent, my real point was to disagree, a full second is not an exaggeration.  I've seen more.  I think what they might have done is misplace a decimal point.  What was supposed to be pennies on the dollar, is all of a sudden a grand Office Space error, and we're getting "compensated" at a factor of ten. 

         

        Seriously.  If you think about it, 300ms is a really "bad" ping, and that's just 1/3 of a second(not really that noticable in the grand scheme of things in reality, not even 1 full mississipi.....yet, the disparity in the kill cam is a full "1 mississipi" and then some, if not 2+.

         

        What host seems to have when it's bad, is a full second, meaning 1,000ms(one full second) ping AVERAGE?  I don't think so. 

         

        I think their math is wrong somewhere in their algorithm. 

         

        So I've got 2 questions.

         

        Where is all that time going?

        and

        Where is my stapler?

        • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.
          vims1990

          Apologies, it's just that I've heard differently from other people and I'm by no means technically professional.

           

          Look, I host alot in MW3. You have probably read alot of my post whining about how host is a death sentence, not worth playing when you get instantly killed even when you "pre-fire"

           

          I like the concept of lag compensation & understand why it's required in FPS but as you stated, the algorithm set up in the game just isn't working right for the host or possibly the player with decent ping.

           

          This "even playing field" doesn't exist in MW3. As I stated before, I'm either ahead or behind what I see on my screen vs. what the opposing players sees on their screen.

          • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.

            vims1990 wrote:

             

            Apologies, it's just that I've heard differently from other people and I'm by no means technically professional.

             

            Look, I host alot in MW3. You have probably read alot of my post whining about how host is a death sentence, not worth playing when you get instantly killed even when you "pre-fire"

             

            I like the concept of lag compensation & understand why it's required in FPS but as you stated, the algorithm set up in the game just isn't working right for the host or possibly the player with decent ping.

             

            This "even playing field" doesn't exist in MW3. As I stated before, I'm either ahead or behind what I see on my screen vs. what the opposing players sees on their screen.

            Not a problem.  A lot of people haven't seen XX, but it still exists.  I haven't seen anyone glitch into objects or out of the map, but I know it happens.  A lot of people lose site of that, and take it to the next level.

             

            Some people swear up and down on god and the US flag that delays like we talk about don't exist at all. Because it plays perfect for them, it HAS to for everyone. (Or they're a bit slow and it does happen to them, they jsut don't pick up on it).

             

            I can tell when I run into someone who's "compensated" on my connection, because they're totally not even shooting at me.  I mean, I love it because i'm no superstar, but I know how much it sucks from playing at my brother's house.

             

            There may be other issues at work though too.  It could be that the whole prediction system is flawed, or simply not precise enough, or that the net-code in general is that way.  It could be the way the graphics engine interfaces with the network, hell, it could be anything.  No way of telling, and i'd guess that iw's not sure either, or we'd have seen some more improvement.(then again, the whole supposed balancing done to the FMG's and the type 95 didn't pan out to amount to a hill of beans either).

             

            It is, by far, the worst game i've ever played online, as far as lag goes.(one of my favorite games, despite it's flaws, so don't get me wrong here, I like the dynamics of the weapons, the timing, the run speeds, etc..the maps could use more variation though, it's like we got 14 variations of Cracked from BO, and 2 Rust from Mw2..no jungle, no afghan, no wasteland, no Array etc.  It's all the same).

  • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.

    Has anybody ever thought that this " one second Handicap" might be a new feature built into the game  in order to give EVERYONE a chance to do well ?

     

    Ask your self how many online first person shooters you have experienced a full second of delay frequently before Black Ops or MW3.

     

    For me the answer is never and I've been playing online shooters since the late 90's on pc.

     

    Whatever started in Black Ops has gotten worse in MW3, and it just might be a handicap system to "give everybody a chance", The people who notice it the most are going to be the run and gun types that get into Close Quarter Combat where life and death are decided in that one second.

     

    MW2 worked properly theres no excuse for this game not to.

     

    Just a thought

     

    .

  • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.
    mjw3786

    do those of you still getting delays have theater turned on or off?

     

    try turning it off and see if that improves things at all. helped me a bit...but i can identify when i'm host after the 4th-5th straight death where none of my shots register. back out, join a playable game in progress, finish to lobby, get selected as host, back out after 4-5 straight deaths, repeat until frustrated -> go to bed

  • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.

    I have found that the delay seems to bounce around. It seems like I can either start the match off hot and then have a lag spell or vise versa. I think the way they intended it is to move around the latency to balance things out. I am not positive about thw flux lag but I have experienced also being the host and experiencing little to no latency and other times where I get severe latency. So IMO I think there are alot more factors is the equation for the LC then just ping. And as far as bf3 goes there is lag in that game to. Dedicated servers can sometimes make the game unplayable if the servers are farther from you then the next guy. And yes I watched a few videos and I have noticed when x us shooting at y it takes 7 bullets but he kills z with 2.

  • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.

    Let me get a few things out of the way first:

     

    1) I created an account here just to post in this thread.

     

    2) I'm not good at FPS games in general.

     

    3) My K/D is low, like .6 or something.

     

    4) I have a 30/5 internet connection

     

    All that being said, I can MAKE this happen. Most of the time I'm zerging around like an idiot, usually around the middle to top of my team in points in pub TDMs. We have a set group we play with every night, sometimes we run up against a good clan and get smoked but most of the time it's fairly even.

     

    However, when I change a few things, my team gets markedly better and I get worse. When we first starting playing I got really confused as to why the following things were happening:

     

    -I would be shot immediately as I turned a corner (I thought this was just me being an idiot until I tested it on HC)

     

    -I would fire 5-6 shots (sometimes with markers, sometimes without) and then get 1 shot

     

    -Knifes would miss completely and I would get shot

     

    There are more examples but these are just a few of the ones that are most apparent.

     

    I started testing some things out. Without revealing exactly what it is, I can easily make it so I get over a 1 K/D, however my team will suffer. Or I can switch it and do poorly but help my team.

     

    In closing, this is definately going on, as I can recreate it at will. I like the IDEA of it, just not the implementation. When dealing with character models, hitboxes, lag compensation, ping times, etc. things get really complicated. The code to handle it all is complex and I admire the devs, but it does need work.

     

    Just to be clear, I only tested this one night. I don't ever use it, it ruins the games.

     

     

    Shoot me a PM if you want to know the specifics or if a dev wants to chat about it.

     

    Storm

     

    /I'm a senior engineer at an ISP

    //Brother is a game dev

  • Re: I pay $200 for my internet and the kid who pays $30 just owned me because of lag compensation.
    Jsouth71

    I play at work and at home.  At work we have DSL and at home I have cable.  I do great at work and horrible at home.  There is a significant lag compensation problem...