27 Replies Latest reply: Jan 25, 2012 7:50 AM by WiseguyFTL RSS

Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

I was having a SUPER FUN TIME earlier being host and getting owned by level 5 split-screeners, but that's besides the point...


It just so happened that during this stretch of SUPER AWESOME LAGTASTIC FUN that I got shanked by the same guy in Kill Confirmed three times in a row (sweet spawns), died from Dead Man's Hand twice (BOOM!), and was the recipient of a Final Stand FMG-9 akimbo spray in the game ending killcam.


From the rage was born a pretty interesting discussion amongst my fellow teammates about the role of "Panic Knifing" and "Deathstreaks" in MW3.


We came to a quick concensus on both elements in the game.


1. A knife should not beat a gun, period.


2. People should not be "rewarded" for playing poorly.


I heard a few of the usual suggestions...


*2-3 hit knives.

*Remove deathstreaks completely.

*Remove knifing completely.


And a few more interesting ones...


*Remove the default layout/make the "tactical layout" default.

*Anti-knife perk/profenciency/equipment (with a possible movement penalty in exchange for the "knife-shield", think of something along the lines of wearing a balistic vest).

*Punch Robert Bowling in the throat.


When it dawned on me...




Knifing and final stand are actually the perfect counters to each other.


If you get knifed, you should automatically drop to Final Stand, and actually be given a chance to shoot at your attacker (FPS = First Person SHOOTER).


Not only does this solve the problem of insta-kill panic knifers, but it would also justify the inclusion of something as lame and broken as Final Stand.



  • Re: So I Heard You Like To Suck D...

    I like it.

    • Re: So I Heard You Like To Suck D...

      kkkkk wait wait wait wait...............

      lets say this.........


      "kill confirm...........kill the enemy.........3...........2................1 DESTROY THE OPPOSITION"

      bam you die............spawn! bam you spawn in enemy spawn...........spawn, bam you spawn next to someone.....................spawn.....pred missle BAM..............spawn..........yay i got a kill yay i got a kill, uh oh chopper...............uh oh ac-130 really? spawn wow again in enemy spawn.................pred missle yay ............game ends wow awesome freakin 2 - 13 .......


      is that me do poorly, or getting screwed?

      not what if they fixed spawns to where it takes one side of the map, and enemy side of map...... or spawn you near safer area...you still have


      "SPAWN!!! k lets go......uh oh pred missle FAWK! - dead

      k, another try **** pavelow....... - dead

      or **** DRONE - dead

      or **** ac-130 - dead

      or stealth bomber - dead


      even if spawns were fixed, your team could suck nuts, and the other team is all pro's and still be getting raped..... i don't see why deathstreaks make you guys mad...... i get hit with dead man's hand alot, last chance does annoy me sometimes only cause they can get back up......... (mabye they should take that out if you go last chance should be just to get a few kills.......but not be able to get back up)  dead man's hand i laugh all the time i die by it


      i think its a cool deathstreak, but i like someones idea of changing it,


      Like spec=ops how you have "enemy suicide bombers" i think with deadman's hand you don't pull the trigger, you have c4 strapped to you, so when you die "beep bee BEEP! BOOM" gives you a chance to get away like maytrom....but with a bigger blast radius.......


      I AGREE with the knifing knifing should be taken out of this game OR take 2 cuts/stabs to kill........OR just for kicks and iggles, have its own class like primary/secondary/Melee


      put like "fork - unlocked level 1" rambo knife - unlocked level 20   machete - unlocked level 57

      serated blade - unlock level 80


      or something make the 1st unlocked require 3 stabs/cuts this way you use it when you've hurt someone so its 1 or 2 hits to kill, then at level 20  rambo knife is like 2 cuts/stabs machete be like 1 OR 2 depending on hit box you hit (legs body head) head be insta kill so makes you aim HIGH like to the SKY


      then level 80 be a crazy lookin assassin blade thats 1 hit...............

      now you make it where prestiging is better this way people don't stay on level 80 just to have the blade,


      also make the knifes lower stuff.......like 1 knife could be "rifle knife" you put it on the end of your gun.... but messes up accuracy but has a 1 or 2 hit random kill (kill with 1 or 2 hits)


      or if you have the level 80 knife, you run a tad slower..........or you can't go prone cause the knife is too big or fancy...


      honestly best thing is to TAKE OUT KNIFING cause its two problems

      1 - lunge

      2 - panic knife (OH **** A GUY oh wow really? now hes just starring at me like an idiot from the 3rd floor.................fawk)

  • Re: So I Heard You Like To Suck D...

    I agree with most of what you said and the idea as it makes sense, trouble is it works two ways.


    Myself as much as anyone is fed up with being knifed from 10 ft away after three bullets have gone into someone but just think when things are going ok and you sneak up on that little camping ****, hump his ass and then give em a knife just to have them go into final stand and kill you.


    Now that's going to hurt but I do like the principles of your idea !


    There is another idea that might work and that's taken from campaign, when you get into a fight with some goon you have to hit a series of buttons or you die, well same in a knife fight, not as drawn out as campaign but if the game randomised a button and threw it up and fastest finger first got the kill !!!


    Maybe they should also consider adding a punch, that would add hours of fun and possibilities to the game

  • Re: So I Heard You Like To Suck D...

    Agree. Love it. Lets lobby to get it done. I liked the idea of a two hit knife, and this is kinda the same thing except you do get a small reward for that initial stick by putting them down in that more vulnerable position. A two hit knife would be pretty hard to pull off most of the time as most folks would turn around pretty quick and shoot you, but this allows for the knifer to still have the advantage and get the stealthy kill. The person should be able to get out of last stand if he fought you off. This would be cool and allow for some pretty funny moments that will add some character to the game. Like Last Stand or not, it does add some of that character and this would retain that while eliminating it as a perk or deathstreak. Hope this thread gets seen by the devs.

  • Re: So I Heard You Like To Suck D...

    Lol, we all have that super fun time.


    I rather everybody plays on default than tactical, tactical is much more helpfull once mastered. Getting panic knifed is annoying so are deathstreaks, but it's part of the game.


    With that said I would make it so that you have to be full health to be able to do the knife animation and thus get your ohk meaning you would need some stealth for knife kills, if you want to only knife in full force you should have to use the tactical knife thus actually plan on doing it. Which is a fun play style and should not be removed for people who like to only knife.


    I would also completely remove martyrdom, final stand and nuke man's hand & replace all three with copycat, 4 deathstreaks is more than enough. The other deathstreaks are not that bad and actually add something to the game.

    • Re: So I Heard You Like To Suck D...

      How about having to equip your throwing knife, and then be able to knife? Also, once thrown, if not picked up, no knifing for you. With not being able to knife unless full health, it takes away an out for someone who just ran empty in their gun, is hurt, and has the enemy still in CQC. That would guarantee your death.

      • Re: So I Heard You Like To Suck D...

        I'm not a big knifer but do ocasionally sneak up on a guy and knife him, it's also quickest finger first when you turn a corner and come face to face with the enemy. In my opinion, both these situations deserve 1 hit kill.

        Getting knifed by a guy 10, 20, 30 feet away doesn't happen me often enough to complain about but I have been on the "WTF" end of it many a time.

        All in all, I find the knifing system just fine as it is.

  • Re: So I Heard You Like To Suck D...

    There are sooo many annoying things in the game, but knifing is not one of them.


    why do you care if some one panic knifes you, all that basically means the pressed the button faster than you.


    Dead mans hand, now thats annoying!!!!! last stand is too quick but i would still keep it in to help people out, just slow down how quickly you can shoot.


    Ban Noob tubes in hardcore


    But most of all fix the lag, mothing else is important until the lag is fixed...........


    And the point about the spawns, if you play as a team and don't run around like headless chickens you can very easiily control the spawns.

  • Re: So I Heard You Like To Suck D...

    put down the sticks and go read a book or something.

  • Re: So I Heard You Like To Suck D...

    instead of knifing we should just bash enemies with our guns. like in halo.

  • Re: So I Heard You Like To Suck D...

    Don’t ban tubes in HC I’ve just started using them in my whole CoD carer lol.  It takes skill to use them in HC so you don’t kill yourself. I was having fun yesterday tubing in HC tdm as the whole other team was laying down waiting for people to come into their scope’s. Needles to say they told me what they thought of it in the lobby after the game.  From what I could gather they wanted me to keep running into them and letting them kill me to feed their KS and their kd ratio. 


    Now panic knifing, the definition that has been given to me is you knife at air when you're too far from someone to get the kill, so that means panic knifing is a problem for the person trying to knife not the person who then shoots them. If I meet someone it’s always my intention to knife them when close enough.


    Death streaks I could care less what they do with them, I think I’ve only died from DMH a few times so it’s not a problem for me.

  • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

    Azure I agree with your ppl not being rewarded for playing poorly. Ive been trying to get this through ppls heads since the blops forum days.

    Knifing should be a 1 hit kill though... to the back. But their are 2 options I think will truely fix the panic knifing proble.

    Yes 2 hits from nonback or you cant knife while being shot.


    IW caters to much to the scrubs who buy the game and play it like 1 days worth of time. Then us players who will play this game till the next CoD title get screwed with all the crap thrown in.


    Give us an "express" type playlist.


    No Death streaks

    No Heartbeat Monitors

    No Assasin

    Mid to small sized maps.


    Im so tired of dead mans nuke!


    I cant believe this made it in. Cause someone dies 6 times I have to die cause I won the 7th gun fight this kid lost. NOT FAIR!!!

  • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

    Maybe I should clarify a bit more about the "Panic Knifing". It's not a big issue if someone sneaks up on me and shanks me, or even if their "reaction" is quicker than me in a CQC situation.


    Scenario 1: You see an opponent in your immediate vicinity, generally in a full sprint going past you and completely oblivious of your location/existence (ie. "Baby Buffalo").


    You shoot several bullets at them FIRST (as much as half of a magazine if the lag/hit detection is particularly questionable).


    *hit marker* *hit marker*


    The opponent, realizing they are being shot, PANICS and immediately turns to your direction and SHANKS you.



    Scenario 2: You are standing/crouching/prone around the corner of a doorway, wall, or just behind any type of barrier/obstacle (ex. car frame).


    (You can even be in full ADS, anticipating someone turning around the corner or coming around the barrier.)


    As you see your opponent turning the corner and approaching your direction, you begin to fire your weapon.


    *hit marker* *hit marker*


    The opponent, realizing they are being shot, PANICS and commando lunges you into sweet oblivion.


    (I have seen an opponent’s lunge carry them around almost every type of obstacle that can be used for cover in the game.)



    The issue with panic knifing goes well beyond reflexes and reaction time. It's one thing to have the presence of mind to run around a corner blind and knife me before I notice you're there.


    But if I'm the one who engages you first, and my bullets are on target (hit markers on my screen in real time, confirmed by a "damaged" red screen for the opponent on kill cam), there's absolutely no reason why your blade should best my gun.

    • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

      As far as the final stand issue is concerned with stealth players using the knife in a situation where they have the tactical advantage, if you had the jump on an opponent initially then it stands to serve that you could finish them off in Final Stand just as easily as when they were standing up.


      The whole concept behind stealth game play really necessitates that your opponent isn't expecting to be attacked (or stabbed in this case) in the first place (ie. element of surprise).


      In the split second after your initial knife, when your opponent drops to Final Stand unexpectedly, most players will freeze up and try and make sense of wtf happened just long enough for you to finish them off with a quick second stab or burst from your weapon.


      The idea of having a "bash" type of melee action similar to Halo is actually quite intriguing, but it might require a complete overhaul of the game mechanics (iirc, this works in Halo mainly because of the increased health via armor).


      Sure, the riot shield provides a similar function in MW3, but without the ability to absorb damage and deflect bullets during a melee attack you would more than likely get LIT UP in a hail of gunfire before you could finish them off (you would need to implement some type of "stun/concussed" feature to a bashed opponent to make it work).


      Speaking of riot shields, if a primary weapon that’s only redeeming offensive quality is a bash/melee attack still can't kill you in one hit, then why should something that amounts to a "last resort" weapon in a knife be able to kill you instantly?


      Keep the comments coming, you never know who might actually be reading the thread.




      "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

  • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

    Lol @ panic knife, only the tactical losers use that term. So it's reflex to drop to the ground when you see someone, but it's panic when you see someone at melee? Right...

    • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

      haha agreed!!!


      Although I have seen some instances where someone sees me way out of the knifing range, and they knife! It always leaves me wondering what where they thinking as I shoot them and they die.

    • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

      Thank you for contributing such a useful post.


      I hear the most effective way to get someone else to listen to your OPINION is to be immature, generalize/infer "facts" about large groups of people you have never met, and start name calling, but that's just not my style...


      FYI, I never mentioned anything about "reflex to drop to the ground" (dropshotting), and if you take the time to read my clarification post above, I think it would clear up the misconception you seem to have about my criticism/complaint with regards to panic knifing.

  • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

    I Have an Idea about this. Lets steal an Idea from COD arch Nemesis BattleField. One hit Kill knifes in the back and  3 upfront. SOCOM also uses this system. I Like it. Makes me try to sneak behind people before ripping out the knife. Maybe even adda  cool throat slit or grab from behind annimation to make it take longer.

  • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

    I like last stand, but i do think that they do need to sort out a few things with it ie, it should pull out a pistol not your main wepon,


    Also last stand should be based on how you were hit ie if you get shot in the foot you should be able to turn around and shoot but if someone empted a clip into your head then your dead.


    panic knifing, i personaly dont find that bad, it happens every now and then, and when it does happen i would mostly blaim myself for letting someone get that close to panic knife me, i should have shot them or stick it in them first.


    People say the lunge is bad but you also have the same lunge as them so try just stick it in them first.

    i find that i get alot of head shoots when people try and panic knife me.

    Plus you should be trying to back off from people if they are to close, if i meat some and we are face to face, open up with the gun but taking stepps backwards as well, reducing the chance for "panic knifing".


    dead mans hand, now thats one taht always gets me no matter what.

    hast anyone ever managed to not get killed by dead mans hand(can you get away from it) or have i just had bad luck it it killing me every time some one has it.


    i played one game over xmas were a xmas noob had dead mans hand, he was easy to kill but had me back nearly everytime with it, unless i was half way across the map and i run round a corner.

  • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

    I've put in a lot of hours in COD and while I don't like the deathstreaks because I finally got to the point where I rarely die 4+ times in a row I can now see why they put this in the game. I have two PS3s setup in my den each with its own plasma tv and my nephews and nieces came over and started rocking MW3; The only thing that kept them playing were the deathstreaks.


    So yes, they were killing people with cheap deathstreak kills, but only after they'd padded the enemies' stats with their extremely nooby play. Bottom-line is, instead of just quitting the game, they kept playing. ...and some of them got better.

  • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

    I admit the knifing sucks... it never works for me (lag) but always seem to get knifed through a hail of bullets but I think that has more to do with lag. Saying this, I firmly believe if they fixed the lag issues the knifing would be better and acceptable for all.

  • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

    So, you hate Last Stand UNLESS you, who hates being knifed, gets knifed. Then, Last Stand is perfectly acceptable.



  • Re: Panic Knifing & Last Stand DIscussions

    I hate getting knifed, I like using shotguns (I stepped away from easymode Striker, the aa-12 is my fav shotgun now) or SMG's and I play on tactical, so I get knifed quite often. I tried using the "claw" technique for holding your controller, which basically means you use your index finger to jump / reload / switch weapons / knife and use your middle finger to shoot, so you can keep your thumb on the stick all the time, but I couldn't get used to it, I kept accidentally switching to my .44 magnum =P

    Knifing shouldn't be completely countered, there are a lot of people out there who like to run around knifing only. I made a post earlier suggesting knifing should only work within the crosshairs of your weapon, so the knife would take some kind of aim and be more effective on LMG's and less effective on SMG's and handguns, that way you wouldn't get knifed when the knifer is standing next to you not even looking at you. I don't care when someone gets in my back and knifes me, that was my mistake I should have been paying attention, but I do hate it when I get 180-knifed...


    About deathstreaks: Shouldn't be in the game. At all. Maybe only deathstreaks like Juiced, Copycat, hollow points. No lethal deathstreaks like Martyrdom or Dead mand hand, and the guy who thought giving someone 2 lives and a free dropshot would be a good idea should be fed to sharks immediately.