29 Replies Latest reply: Jan 7, 2012 8:13 AM by UMWxKiLLER RSS

THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

I hate this game most of the time.  And I loved MW2.  I had such high hopes for MW3, but I just can't enjoy a game where I believe most of my deaths are due to lag.  To preface this, I don't care about my KD except in FFA and TDM.  However, before I completely gave up on it, it was near 3.  Now it is 2.3, as I use shotguns and generally bad weapons for fun.  Hopefully these numbers show that I probably know what I'm talking about.

 

That said, here are some videos showcasing what the game plays like for me.  Not theater clips, but HD clips from a camera.  Watch at least some of them, then let me know what you think.

 

My buddies, who I consider about the same skill level, almost never have a 3 bar, and when I watch their videos online, bullets hit just as they should, etc, etc.  In MW2 when I wanted to, I could usually do very well, or I could run around with a Vector and still do well, but die when I thought I was outplayed.  In this game my bullets just take forever to connect.  Literally as you see in the last video, FOREVER.

 

Connection is not my issue.  I have 12 meg down, 1 meg up, 25ms ping, and it's stable.  Other games don't lag, except BO, which is not nearly as bad as this.

 

Below is the best connection quality I ever get.  This quality is very rare.  It's about a MW2 3 bar I would say.  And it's playable, with only a few WTF moments:

 

Next is what the vast majority of my games are like.  Any 1v1 standoffs, and I die unless the player sucks.  Rushing is generally useless.  My bullets start connecting after 3 or 4 shots at least.  Killcams don't show me shooting unless I get to spray for a while:

 

Last is some totally unplayable lag to anyone.  No commentary needed.  This is just a random lobby I got in with my buddies, they're all from the US and all their connections were fine.  No one was on the internet at my house, and just after the match I checked and it was stable and performing like it should:

 

 

Let me know your thoughts!

  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)
    maccabi

    tykempster wrote:

     

    I hate this game most of the time.  And I loved MW2.  I had such high hopes for MW3, but I just can't enjoy a game where I believe most of my deaths are due to lag.  To preface this, I don't care about my KD except in FFA and TDM.  However, before I completely gave up on it, it was near 3.  Now it is 2.3, as I use shotguns and generally bad weapons for fun.  Hopefully these numbers show that I probably know what I'm talking about.

     

    That said, here are some videos showcasing what the game plays like for me.  Not theater clips, but HD clips from a camera.  Watch at least some of them, then let me know what you think.

     

    My buddies, who I consider about the same skill level, almost never have a 3 bar, and when I watch their videos online, bullets hit just as they should, etc, etc.  In MW2 when I wanted to, I could usually do very well, or I could run around with a Vector and still do well, but die when I thought I was outplayed.  In this game my bullets just take forever to connect.  Literally as you see in the last video, FOREVER.

     

    Connection is not my issue.  I have 12 meg down, 1 meg up, 25ms ping, and it's stable.  Other games don't lag, except BO, which is not nearly as bad as this.

     

    Below is the best connection quality I ever get.  This quality is very rare.  It's about a MW2 3 bar I would say.  And it's playable, with only a few WTF moments:

     

     

    Next is what the vast majority of my games are like.  Any 1v1 standoffs, and I die unless the player sucks.  Rushing is generally useless.  My bullets start connecting after 3 or 4 shots at least.  Killcams don't show me shooting unless I get to spray for a while:

     

     

    Last is some totally unplayable lag to anyone.  No commentary needed.  This is just a random lobby I got in with my buddies, they're all from the US and all their connections were fine.  No one was on the internet at my house, and just after the match I checked and it was stable and performing like it should:

     

     

     

    Let me know your thoughts!

    Thank you ,thank you, thank you finally someone posted videos that are actually worthwhile (and im not being sarcastic here) .but this is exactly what i mean by people blaming something on lag comp as thats the de facto "reason"

     

    ok so going down in order of your post, first off thanks for posting your bandwidth, (although your ping will change constantly its not a constant) out of interest what type of connection do you have and how do you connect the xbox to the internet/router.

     

    right onto the videos..

     

    I noticed on the first video you're on a 3 bar that puts your ping to the host anywhere from 100-199 ms , the players on 4 bar are pinging to the host anywhere from 0-99ms, so thats always worth bearing in mind as it does mean you are already at a disadvantage as game data takes longer to reach you and from you to the host than other players.(although from personal observations of bars in games they are screwy and i firmly believe they dont accurately reflect pings atm)

     

    the second and third videos again your are on a 2-3 bar i noticed it did fluctuate abit, so again thats going against you,  but the most telling thing was in the third video you said your reload takes along time..that is a CLIENT side command so theres def an issue there also i noticed on the third video when you were running alongside a team mate they skipped abit ..the movement wasnt smooth, this again is an issue totally seperate from the often mis blamed lag comp .

     

    before i go any further *disclaimer* I am not saying there isnt a problem with the game we all know there is BUT in your case theres obviously a few more things going on as well..

    I noticed for example you have an older xbox and have it vertically placed..this isnt the best idea as you are blocking one of the main airflows into the xbox, if i was you (and i am as i do the same to my falcon) place it horizontal and put a penny under every foot to give more air space under it, (also if you havent installed the game to your harddrive, having it vertical isnt great for disk reading constanly (plus you run risk of it falling over and whacking the laser out of alignment.

     

    can you post a few more details of your setup and lets see if theres anything we can do to improve the overal expereince for you abit.

  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)
    mjw3786

    i've had my elite standing up like that for almost 5 years and it did red ring in 2009 but was repaired and has been fine with no issues. air flow is fine. i routinely play for 4+ hrs at a time. probably 4-6 days a week and have been doing so maybe 20-30 weeks a year at least. cod4, w@w, mw2, blops and now mw3. not to mention the other games, halo, gears, and non-shooters.

     

    vertical air flow is not an issue

  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

    too bad that they have zero intentions to do anything about it.  I get games like this 100% of the time.  It's unplayable.  Well, the FMG's are so OP'd that I can do ok with those, but anything else I can't do well with because I'm a full second behind everybody. 

     

    this is the worst multiplayer game that's ever been created, honestly.

  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

    Not down playing what you go through at all, but the first 2 videos are typical of all CODs for me.  Any time I've had 3 bars in COD since COD4, the game play is pretty much like in those first 2 videos.  For me it's very much playable in the first 2 videos.  As for the 3rd video, any time it's like that, I leave.  It's completely unplayable and pointless to even stay and try.

     

    Games like you've shown in the 3rd video occur for me I'd say less than 1% of the time.  I run a hard wired connection, all ports forwarded and opened, decent ping times to varying server locations at 100 - 3000 miles away.  Never play with any activity on my connection other than XBox Live.  If you are running across games like the 3rd video roughly 25% of the time (I think you said around 25% of the time in your 3rd video), I'd have to go with you having a problem with your setup/connection in some way. 

  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)
    Nubdub

    You seem to have more of a true connection issue as opposed to a lag compensation issue. 2 real but extremely different issues. Maccabi's elagaphant post may help you. The fact that you were warping and freezing in your 3rd video is a sign of connection issues not lag compensation.

    • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

      MW2 plays smooth as could be for me.  BO has its issues, but much better than this game.  Every other game is smooth.

       

      It's MW3.

      • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)
        maccabi

        tykempster wrote:

         

        MW2 plays smooth as could be for me.  BO has its issues, but much better than this game.  Every other game is smooth.

         

        It's MW3.

        yep your right its the game, not your connection , even though ole nubdub who has disagreed with me on every "lag comp" thread acually said the same thing

         

         

        anyways i was going to make a witty reply but this video from the "one and only wiggy" kinda sums up exactly what i was going to say to that reply

         

         

         

         

        • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

          maccabi wrote:

          yep your right its the game, not your connection , even though ole nubdub who has disagreed with me on every "lag comp" thread acually said the same thing

           

           

          anyways i was going to make a witty reply but this video from the "one and only wiggy" kinda sums up exactly what i was going to say to that reply

           

           

           

           

           

           

          LMAO, Genius...

           

          This was one of my favorite clips ever!

           

          It really sums up many complaints that we hear Mac!

          • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)
            otisman666

            Hey Macc.  Ignore the idiot OP.  I am experiencing the same stuff we see in vids 2 & 3.

             

            I run FIOS 35/35 service.  Direct hook up to Router (newest FIOS model), with usually nobody surfing the net.  Now the issue here is that I am in Philadelphia, PA, while my squad is in Seattle, WA.  Since y'all aint from around here, that basically means these guys are at the fartherst point in the normalized populated US that I could  play with.  Extreme East Coast to Extreme West Coast.

             

            I can tell you something really wierd.  We are 95% certain the one dude typcially pulls host.  On MW2, I pull a 3 bar.  On B.O. I pull a 3 bar.  On MW3....I am pulling a 2 - 1 bar.  We just did this experiment the other night with the same host in all 3 games on public servers.  All games were of the 12 man variety (domination, although for old times sake we did do some MW2 Demo, wipes tear) and for most part have been the historical results.  It's just wierd.

             

            I do get the skipping when running in close proximity to teammates.  I have bullets pass right through guys that I am fairly certain I hit.  This is when I am pulling 3 bar.  When I am in the 2 -1 bar land....much worse.

             

            I just chalk it up for the price I need to pay with my friends, but I thought you might like hear about the bar discrepencies.

            • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

              I'm an idiot OP when I try and post constructive videos showing my issues?

               

              Yet you go and post in bigger font to get attention?  Go fist yourself.

              • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)
                maccabi

                tykempster wrote:

                 

                I'm an idiot OP when I try and post constructive videos showing my issues?

                 

                Yet you go and post in bigger font to get attention?  Go fist yourself.

                I think the point your missing here is you got offered help and threw it back in peoples face. I offered to trouble shoot for you you just got all shirty and rude so well have fun playing your game.

                 

                see the problem here is you aptly demonstrated one of the biggest problems on these forums when people rant and rage about lag comp, stubbornness and refusal to accept the truth. Prefering to blame something that isn't actually always the correct thing. your title says it all, you came on here showing what you wrongly assumed is lag comp as thats what gets the blame for everything, end result some people have tried to correct you, others have said yes thats what i see too and will now go off happily and incorrectly fueling the lag comp must die threads.

                 

                I explained why your problems werent just "lag comp " related, as by your videos it was easy to see that wasnt the case but you refuse to accept it, doing what most people incorrectly do and make the arguement "well my other games play fine , it must be the game". as an FYI this and blops generate more traffic than previous games if your on a high ping connection (which you are) you WILL have problems, more packets = more missed packets less smoother gameplay more wtf moments ect ect

                 

                 

                so in order.

                1) the fact players are skipping is not a sign of lag comp thats actual real bone fide latency (lag) and connection issues.

                2) most of the games you are on 3 bar so could very well have a ping upto 199ms and your 25ms ping is a number that relates ONLY to the server you pinged to do your test. Im pretty certain if you did an actual pingtest you'd find you have jitter and lost packets in the results

                3) you're playing ground war the worst game mode to get a smooth connection on, as hardly anyone can host it well , and even if you get a good host the amount of traffic generated will cause problems for anyone who has a sub standard connection as you obviously have by the videos

                4) you fluctutated between 2-3 bars in some games.

                5) you seem to be under the misconception that the game is supposed to play flawlessly , it isnt you're playing over the internet you will always get the odd wtf moment especially if you ping high to the server, as others have pointed out your videos show you killing in 3-4 shots, (when you are on target)

                6) basically all you have managed to show is you have a crap connection (reasons unknown and at this point i dont care) and still manage to play and kill people even with skipping players due to your poor connection so well done you just aptly demonstrated lag comp works as intended .

                • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

                  I watch your posts about lag and connections with interest as the thing you talk about in "that" thread makes you sound like you should be making the netcode for the next cod but i would like to point out that when you stated:

                  "as an FYI this and blops generate more traffic than previous games if your on a high ping connection (which you are) you WILL have problems, more packets = more missed packets less smoother gameplay more wtf moments ect ect"

                   

                  I had this game 6 days pre-release and all the problems that there are now were the same then with only a few thousand people on the game, i honestly don't believe that traffic has played any part in any of the problems thus far (imo) also my connection is optimized , i have dmz set up , wired connection dsl 12 Down & 1.2 Up and 9 times out of 10 im on a 4 bar and for the record also i have the box set up to use my fastest and nearest dns servers as described in your famous thread and i have more unplayable bs than i would expect of the biggest game in the world right now. You may want to be careful you dont go too far in favour of "its not the game its you" as there IS a problem to be fixed and your expertise would be better spent helping people rule out other issues in a less smug arrogant way!

                  I do wonder if you actually wrote the lag compensation code yourself and maybe your ElloMrArrogant thread is to fight back for the likes of IW and Treyarc and to once again shift the blame away from the industry we helped build with our hard earned money to us the people! our connections are what the game SHOULD be designed around not the other way around!

                  Great posts btw!

                   

                  If you do get chance to read this any idea why the game plays worse when partying up than when playing by yourself?

                  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

                    I can answer a few of those for you.  I'm hoping you've read some of my threads on lag compensation as well (no I didn't write any code for this game).

                     

                    When he said it "generates more traffic", he didn't mean more players.  He means the packets for these games hold more data than previous, so the amount of bandwidth necessary is greater.  So a game with 10 players in the new version uses more "traffic" than a game with 10 players in the older versions.  This is really true in most new engines/sequels.  More advanced engines usually require more data to be sent/received.

                     

                    My take on "the reason the game plays worse when partying up" is that you're forcing distance between the players.  Instead of letting the game choose the best players (best pings) to play with/against, you're now forcing it to pair you together.  Now the game has to determine the best host based on whatever match up you've just created, and the player in your party furthest away will ALWAYS have a tougher game due to higher latency.

                     

                    And before anybody says anything, I realize distance is not the ONLY factor in latency, but it is the greatest factor in the equation.  I just use distance as a simple identifier.

                  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

                    I don't want you to miss my reply in the middle of all of this stuff.  I sometimes don't like the way these forums handles replies.  If somebody answers to the OP after I post, nobody will even look up here to see mine.

                  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)
                    maccabi

                    HmsDuck wrote:

                     

                    I watch your posts about lag and connections with interest as the thing you talk about in "that" thread makes you sound like you should be making the netcode for the next cod but i would like to point out that when you stated:

                    "as an FYI this and blops generate more traffic than previous games if your on a high ping connection (which you are) you WILL have problems, more packets = more missed packets less smoother gameplay more wtf moments ect ect"

                     

                    I had this game 6 days pre-release and all the problems that there are now were the same then with only a few thousand people on the game, i honestly don't believe that traffic has played any part in any of the problems thus far (imo) also my connection is optimized , i have dmz set up , wired connection dsl 12 Down & 1.2 Up and 9 times out of 10 im on a 4 bar and for the record also i have the box set up to use my fastest and nearest dns servers as described in your famous thread and i have more unplayable bs than i would expect of the biggest game in the world right now. You may want to be careful you dont go too far in favour of "its not the game its you" as there IS a problem to be fixed and your expertise would be better spent helping people rule out other issues in a less smug arrogant way!

                    I do wonder if you actually wrote the lag compensation code yourself and maybe your ElloMrArrogant thread is to fight back for the likes of IW and Treyarc and to once again shift the blame away from the industry we helped build with our hard earned money to us the people! our connections are what the game SHOULD be designed around not the other way around!

                    Great posts btw!

                     

                    If you do get chance to read this any idea why the game plays worse when partying up than when playing by yourself?

                    what xRaheemx said re traffic yes I did mean packets not number of players,

                     

                    secondly when you deal with UDP traffic (which is what this game uses) you have to account for approx 2-5% packet loss , nothing to do with the game or your connection thats just a fact of udp over the net, add to that as I keep saying the way udp is treated as second class traffic nowadays by isps it all adds to those wtf moments. cable modem and router buffers dropping packets i could go on for ages listing all the ways you can lose packets that are outside anyones controls. given the tickrate used by the host you are generating alot of traffic (packets).

                     

                    please dont fall into the same trap alot of the CBG do and assume i dont think there is a problem with the game i know there is same as blops i can easily demonstrate it  , the "thread" was never meant to fix game issues but to optimize peoples connections, in fact the original "thread" was started as a direct result of the wah this game lags brigade in blops not actually giving the devs useful info they could work with, the idea was show them that people have set everything up correctly so it waasnt them.

                     

                    but no i dont work for any cod team nor would i want to, but yes i probably could very easily write the basic netcode for this game and if im honest and not knowing exactly what they have done or how they coded it my result would play probably exactly the same as it does now albeit with slightly less elagant looking code maybe one or two tweaks for the simple reason as much as people dont like what they see this way is alot better than the alternatives.

                     

                    the reason i said basic netcode is as once you have your wonderful working buttery smooth netcode, what happens is the game dev come along and start adding crap, killstreaks, messaging, out of game stats ect ect and all this adds to the traffic load, so suddenly you're contantly trying to recode stuff to fit all the faff the game devs came up with into your now not so buttery smooth netcode, and then just when you think everything you wrote works again the platform your working for releases a new dashboard or update and now you have to think how that traffic will interfere with your own.. its a horrible downward spiral and a job i wouldnt wish on anyone.

                     

                    btw your xbox is in the dmz.. not the bst place for it at all for playing online games, so its not really optimised, you want the console the other side of the firewall, and with forwarded ports makes the poor little udp packets have less hassle getting to you.

  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

    Aye, this lag comp is causing severe issues for some people. How hard can it be to fix?

  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

    What is happening to you in video 2 is what my game play experience is like 99% of the time in this game. In every Call of Duty from 2 - MW2 I did not have this problem. However I started noticing it in Black Ops, but it was nowhere near as bad as it is for me in MW3.

     

    It gets incredibly frustrated to be killed so often by someone who I walk up behind and shoot in the back only to have them turn around and kill me.

    • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

      bobafettjm wrote:

       

      What is happening to you in video 2 is what my game play experience is like 99% of the time in this game. In every Call of Duty from 2 - MW2 I did not have this problem. However I started noticing it in Black Ops, but it was nowhere near as bad as it is for me in MW3.

       

      It gets incredibly frustrated to be killed so often by someone who I walk up behind and shoot in the back only to have them turn around and kill me.

      I suspect this is the case for all players. The only difference is that the people who don't complain about it or notice it are the players who suck at the game and enjoy being able to get more kills from being on the good end of lag compensation a lot of the time. I remember back in MW2, when you died, you deserved to.

      • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

        markocc wrote:

         

        bobafettjm wrote:

         

        What is happening to you in video 2 is what my game play experience is like 99% of the time in this game. In every Call of Duty from 2 - MW2 I did not have this problem. However I started noticing it in Black Ops, but it was nowhere near as bad as it is for me in MW3.

         

        It gets incredibly frustrated to be killed so often by someone who I walk up behind and shoot in the back only to have them turn around and kill me.

        I suspect this is the case for all players. The only difference is that the people who don't complain about it or notice it are the players who suck at the game and enjoy being able to get more kills from being on the good end of lag compensation a lot of the time. I remember back in MW2, when you died, you deserved to.

        Right..... I don't have issues with lag compensation so I either have horrible internet or I am a bad player.

         

        Maybe I just don't find excuses for my deaths.

         

        OP your second video didn't show anything out of the normal to me.  When you were on target you killed the guy.  There were times you made claims of your bullets "not showing up" in the kill cam when they did.  Your gun was killing in 3 or 4 bullets when you were shooting people and were actually on target.  Last but not least you were on a 3 bar and saying that the host was bad.  I saw plently of people with 4 bars.  If it was a bad host then he wouldn't give the majority of players 4 bars. Ground war has been a laggy game mode since it was introduced.  If you want less lag don't play GW.

         

        Also OP you say your ping is 25ms?  Is that to your nearest test center?  You do realize that the host isn't gonna be 5 miles away from you right?  If you are on the east coast and the host is on the west coast you will have a 3 bar or less regardless of how good your connection is.  Plus I thought lag comp was supposed to affect people with super fast internet?  Your speeds and ping don't even represent the connections that people would consider amazing like what wiggy or otis is running.

  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)
    thetizzleguy

    LOL... this is just because someone in your house is downloading mate, trust me it happens to me all the time when my house mat gets back because he always downloads...

    basically if the killcam is them singlefiring a fully auto gun then its download inturruption end of. this is not lag compensasion, thats when your around a corder and you get killed and on the killcam your in front of them.

  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

    I play almost every First Person Shooter out there RB6, Halo,some gears,BC2,BF3 ,all CODs since cod3 and I've never had the out of sync lag over comp issues untill BO and now MW3 were released, All My freinds have said the same thing.

     

    I think I'll rent the next installment of COD(Black ops 2) to see if this is going to be the new norm instead of doing the customary preorder. I've learned my lesson.

     

    People were looking for a cod killer , who woulda thunk that cod killed itsself.

  • Re: THIS IS WHY LAG COMPENSATION NEEDS FIXED (with live video)

    To all the retards defending the lag in this game............

     

    IT ONLY ******* HAPPENS IN THIS GAME. I can put in MW2 right now and experience NONE of the bullshit that happens in MW3. Black Ops was the beginning of the end. I honestly thought Black Ops was as bad as lag compensation could get but then MW3 blew it out of the water with 10 times more BS.