41 Replies Latest reply: Jan 18, 2012 12:15 PM by suprememstr RSS

What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?

KoRny1

Am I the only one that realizes that these kinds of weapons are completely trumped by Assault Rifles?

The only SMG I've found even the least bit effective is the PP90M1 in combo with Rapid Fire because it fires so fast it pretty much instantly slaps anyone down at point blank range, but that's just it...ALL smg's are only truely effective at close range, so why would I ever use one?

LMGs are even more useless...most of them fire so slow the only way you can kill someone with one is if you shoot someone in the back or if whoever you're shooting at really sucks. They're also so inaccurate that you simply can't kill anyone farther than mid range.

I've never been the best sniper, and I have too much self respect to use a shotgun, although I will admit these weapons do serve.

I've narrowed the guns in this game down to only 2 logical choices:

***Type-95 (a SINGLE well-placed burst will drop an enemy at ANY range, even point blank)

***ACR (effective at ANY range with the best damage/fire-rate ratio)

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    Perry1188

    Try the MP7. Since I have picked that gun up I haven't touched the Assault Rifles other than the MK14 for fun sometimes. The MP7 is like a laser beam.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    deadimpact

    "Variety" and "fun" are two reasons why I enjoy using SMGs and LMGs.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?

    IMO SMG's tread too deep into what should be assult rifle territory.

     

    Meaning that they are potent to a range they should be useless at.

     

    LMG's rarely do well... They're pretty much useless without rapid fire. Even with it, they often have so much recoil that you'll only win in long-range engagments.

     

    Unless your opponate has the God gun, AKA the ACR 6.8. With its non-existant recoil and its amazing ability to kill people instantly.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?

    SMGs fit in the game just fine.  They compliment a particular play style and when used properly to their strengths, out perform ARs.  If you grab an SMG and try to use it like an AR, then ARs will beat you (unless you're some godly player). 

     

    I have no argument for LMGs in this game.  Only thing I can say in their defense is I have seen people use them effectively.

     

    And the Type 95 is not a one burst kill at ANY range, it's actually 2 bursts at range.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    nuttin2say

    They are only trumped if you use them in the same fashion as an AR. ARs don't work as well on CQC maps (like Seatown) as SMGs. On a map like Bootleg, an LMG can work wonders holding down an objective.

     

    In any case, I use LMGs as part of an anti-air class. Once you pop off two stingers to take out two UAVs in a row and there's a Helo up, you can switch to your LMG to work on the Helo. Usually, not always granted, someone else on your team will pop off the third Stinger toward the helo and wonder how they were able to shoot it down with only one stinger.

     

    Odds are, as well, that you will have plenty of ammo left over in your LMG. If you are still alive, walk when you move. Running with an LMG will definitely get you killed. Ideally you want to hold down an area - camp. If you're like me, that gets boring real fast. But  do not run with an LMG, walk. They have adequate ADS. Reaction time makes the difference. But once you are ADS and you take down the first opponent, NEVER lower your gun and start moving immediately. Odds are there's another opponent about to round the same corner where you just took one down.

     

    LMGs and SMGs and shotguns are a challenge to use, you're right. But that's the way most of the weapons and attachments in the game should be. It takes a long time to learn how to work some of them in a way that makes them effective.

     

    But once you do, it is awesome to know you can run out of ammo and pick up ANYTHING on the battlefield and have a better than 50% chance of surviving.

     

    And getting the last kill with an opponent's weapon?

     

    Priceless.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    mickilla

    These weapon types do accomplish their intended roles, the problem is that these roles aren't very flexible, and not always relevant to scenario the map puts you in. An assault rifle on the other hand is always flexible and relevant.

     

    And even at these more specialized roles, most of the time an assault rifle can do the same thing just as easily. The small advantages that niche weapons get in very particular situations just isn't enough to really make them practical.

     

    For example, LMGs get a handling boost when they're prone. That's lovely if you have a good position to work from, but then again, most assault rifles can produce the same results while still on their feet. Add in stalker, and an assault rifle can stay just as controllable as an LMG even while very mobile. It just isn't worth it to use anything else. Not to a pragmatist at least.

    • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
      nuttin2say

      mickilla wrote:

       

      These weapon types do accomplish their intended roles, the problem is that these roles aren't very flexible, and not always relevant to scenario the map puts you in. An assault rifle on the other hand is always flexible and relevant.

       

       

      So don't use anything but an AR.

       

      You get up to ten classes to customize. Why?

       

      The nature of your debate in itself makes no sense. You can't use SMGs or LMGs because they are too specialized??

       

      The reason that ARs are the weapon of choice in every military in the world is because they are the most flexible type of firearm. Period. The game is no different.

       

      SMGs and LMGs are better weapons in a smaller percentage of situations overall.

      • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
        mickilla

        We're talking about a video game, not real life. And in a game one would hope that the weapon classes are well balanced. But what do you know, the devs derped again. I find it absolutely amazing that morons of their caliber have somehow managed to avoid choking on their own tongues for as long as they have.

         

        The real problem, in the pragmatic sense, is that the maps do all in their power to interfere with line of sight combat. Shootouts begin and end in fractions of a second. You have no choice but to be able to instantly respond to sudden, unexpected threats and heave out a lethal amount of damage ASAP. That's just the nature of the game. For weapons that can adapt to this role, great. For the ones that inherently favor more slow, drawn out engagements, they're SOL.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    coderedonfire

    i'll take you out at any range fit for an assault rifle with a ump. 45 with range and rapid fire so fast it will make your head spin. this game actually caters to smgs, you are just too used to the old cod games so you havn't realised it yet, i have gotten every gun gold in this game and i don't really like any of the lmg's just because of how slow you move but the only gun that is truely horrible is the pm-9  all of the assault rifles are fair guns but i favor smg's.

    • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
      nuttin2say

      I agree with this post. MW3 is CQC-centric big time.

       

      I've found a couple of ways  to make SMGs hard to beat.

       

      SMG with a silencer and Range proficiency.

       

      SMG with range and rapid fire.

       

      SMG with attachments and silencer and rapid fire.

       

      All three setups on any SMG are incredibly effective. Add to them either Stalker or Steady Aim and SMGs are a really hard to beat class.

       

      So far there are two things I've found helpful on LMGs. You can use either a red dot or holographic sight ... or you can skip those and go with the silencer. IMO, the silencer helps LMGs more than grip.

       

      There's a lot of different combinations out there for every weapon. Simply setting up one of those combinations and trying it for one or two matches of a specific type is not going to tell you whether or not the weapon or setup is worthwhile. You really need to use the particular combination for a long time.

       

      In fact, if you haven't completed every challenge for every weapon and its attachments ... you really don't need to be making claims that a weapon is OP or worthless.

       

      Try that out first. You'll be amazed at what you can do with various weapons when you have no choice but to use that weapon. You'll learn its strengths and weaknesses and how to manipulate those into your favor.

       

      At that point you'll start using the weapon you favor most ... but you won't worry about what others are using because you'll know how to beat that weapon.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    Brick2urFace

    Okay first things first, every stock smg beats assault rifles in terms of damage per second and low time to kill out to around 65 ft. except the ump.  All rapid fire smgs soundly beat all assault rifles within 65 ft.  With the size of the maps keeping engagements within 65 ft. is not very tricky.  Lmgs are worthless.

           I don't understand what you mean about self respect when using a shotgun.  Shotguns (beside the striker) are the hardest weapons to use in mw3.  The type 95 requires 5 bullets past 100 ft.to kill not 2.  And lastly the g36 has the highest damage to fire rate ratio.  Check facts before posting please.

    • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?

      I prefer SMG's in SND because you can travel around the map quickly and flank easily..With spawning games like DOM/TDM spawns are usually flipping if poeple play objectives so its harder to flank..

    • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
      KoRny1

      even if the Type95 takes 2 bursts to kill someone from halfway across the level, that 2nd burst is only adding about a quarter of a second onto your kill time. I usually fire 2 bursts anyways just for good measure, so that's hardly worth trying to make a point out of.

      One hipfired burst from the Type95 at melee range is instantanious death to an enemy so I don't understand what you mean when you say SMGs beat ARs within 65ft.

      I think Shotguns demonstrate the same level of skill as Grenade Launchers.

      and as for your G36 fact/opinion, trading the ACR for the G36 sacrifices a significant amount of damage for a miniscule amount of fire rate. I find it harder to drop people with the G36. (personal experience)

      • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
        Brick2urFace

        That extra 1/4 second makes your total kill time .5 seconds if the second burst actually finishes him, the t95 has enough recoil where it id hard to get 5 bullets  to hit out of 2 bursts.  There is the posibility of insta kills with the t95 from close range true enough, but if you look the pp90m1 rapid fire has 1350 rpm as opposed to the t95 at 1000 (within the burst itself using rapidfire)  so the 2 bullet kill that you may get with the t95 may only be able to kill .007 seconds faster than the pp90 if it is the first 2 bullets hit from the t95, if its the 1st and 3rd bullet of the burst that hit the pp90 has the advantage in kill time.  65 ft. is aproximately the damage drop for most smgs where they stop doing 3 bullet kills.  Try a shotgun besided the striker, they are way harder than any other weapon class (if you don't just sit in a corner) The accuracy and reflexes required to rush with a pump shotgun in mw3 are much higher than any other weapon.  I have 3500 kills with the spas trust me it aint easy.  and lastly the g36 is a 3-4 bullet kill just the same as the acr.  But the acr only has 705rpm where as the g36 has 769 almost 10% higher fire rate.  It does have more recoil and therefore benefits from kick proficiency. But again please look up/ experiment before you post on this forum.

      • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?

        The whole point of saying the Type 95 takes 5 bullets to kill was to point out your inaccurate information that it kills in one burst at any range.  It was simply to correct your error.  And there is no IF it takes 2 bursts at range to kill, it does, it's a fact, and that is that.

      • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
        nuttin2say

        KoRny1 wrote:

         

        even if the Type95 takes 2 bursts to kill someone from halfway across the level, that 2nd burst is only adding about a quarter of a second onto your kill time. I usually fire 2 bursts anyways just for good measure, so that's hardly worth trying to make a point out of.

        One hipfired burst from the Type95 at melee range is instantanious death to an enemy so I don't understand what you mean when you say SMGs beat ARs within 65ft.

        I think Shotguns demonstrate the same level of skill as Grenade Launchers.

        and as for your G36 fact/opinion, trading the ACR for the G36 sacrifices a significant amount of damage for a miniscule amount of fire rate. I find it harder to drop people with the G36. (personal experience)

         

        Until you get the prestige challenge of 2500 kills overall and 500 headshots with EVERY weapon in the game, you're blowing smoke on what takes skill to use and what is OP. Not only that, you need complete the proficiency and attachment challenges for every gun, as well. I mean pistols, launchers - everything.

         

        You'll have a completely different outlook on what is OP and what isn't if you do that.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?

    it isn't that LMG's are useless in this, it is that you can't play it the same as with an AR. i got the gold for l86 lsw and my kd went up.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    dtuchpunk

    The point of a SMG. For CQC because of weight and size.
    The point of a LMG. Longer range supressing fire.

     

     

    In the game the point is variotion.

    • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
      infinitlag

      I use snipers and shotguns all the time cos I enjoy using them.

      • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?

        Lmg work in team games and only for support.

         

        blind eye pro and dont use stingers,

         

        M60 with grip and acog and take down ac130 in one clip and a pawlow in half a clip. Stingers take too long without slight of hand. Enemy air dont have defence against lmg but they do against stinge

         

        Always hang back and pounce on rushers. portable rader and betty to block flanks.

         

        acimbo mp9 close up

         

        sensitivity at 9 or 10

         

        dont auto fire always burst. two should do it.

         

        qs if cought of gard

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    TL_Bare_B_V2

    I use LMG's quite a bit and find there most effective used as semi-auto's in hardcore, get a grip and thermal then watch them rage as you just take 1 shot and pop there head clean off.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    gallp13

    Fun? Like the rest of the game.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    JetEye

    LMGs are awesome if used properly.  They are awesome at bases from a distance.  Pretty accurate when in prone, so if you're covering a bottleneck you can take out an entire team.  I usually whip out my M60 with grip, blind eye pro, and Stinger in an Anti-Aircraft role.  With blind eye pro, taking down aircrafts with an LMG is easy!  It only takes a few bullets to take down UAVs, even Attack Choppers are easily taken down with LMGs....

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    xN3LSON

    UMP w/ Range & Extended Mags & MP7 w/ Range & Extended Mags.

     

    They are the only combos to use. Rapid Fire is dreadful and is righfully banned in competitive games.

     

    LMG's are just a waste of time. Dreadful, simple as.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    centcent

    I stopped using ARs because I kept dying behind cover, thanks to the horrible lag in this game. I started using the MP7 and havn't looked back.

     

    LMG do suck though. I loved them in Black Ops. They just don't put out enough damage in MW3 and their accuracy is awful.

    • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
      fisheadz

      lmgs in this game are pretty rubbish, ive spent a lot of time using them as i have most weapons to see what works for me.

       

      i have had some success with them but it is very situation dependant. i play gw dom kc only if you get with a team that goes lone wolf you're screwed, if team plays the obj they can be used effectivly to cover/defend your spawn obj quite well depending on your position an how long it takes for an enemy to spawn behind you

       

      cq your going to die, they seem to be out gunned by everything unless you are in ads walking it in on full chat an have a little luck.

       

      mid, power wise you are in league with ars, but due to the massive recoil/accuracy advantage ars have you need some good cover an ideally need to get the first hit

       

      long range, you're going to die, due to damage drop off an rubbish accuracy you will be out gunned by pretty much anything, yes inc smgs ! bakaara i was providing suppresive fire up the road covering team mates advance on 'b,' was in ads led in lil hole by the truck, covering the truck at top of hill, enemy appeared i let rip got hit marker then died. was killed by a mp7 with silencer. this is jus wrong.

       

      basically they are rubbish, imo to make them even remotly competative they need either no damage drop off and/or massive recoil adjustment. if you want some sort of sight [as the irons are rubbish] you need to use 2 attach meaning you lose kick or stability which doesnt help, the grip should come as std imo

       

      do not run an gun, move slow to your chosen 'spot' camp it up an dont be shy with the trigger, make the most of it as not long till the red dot chasers come for you !

       

      this is a smg, q/s, akimbo, striker run an gun game for kids

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    trialstardragon

    LOLwut? Smg's are far from useless I can use any of them and do as well as a AR can at short range and even nearly as good as some of the AR's at the medium range. Hell I can use Lmg's and beat most AR's at the medium range and long range game, so they are not useless either. It sounds like you have issues aiming for more then a few moments thinking that people should die within 2 seconds or less of you pressing the trigger.

     

    The Lmg's put out more than enough damage if used correctly. They are not meant as run-n-gun guns. They are long and medium range point defense guns. If you are trying to rush or run wiht a lmg and getting owned that is your fault for using them wrong.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    Sharted1ce

    try using the range proficiency......it extends the damage drop off of the smgs, it also seems to tighten up accuracy because of it, making the already laser beam mp7 a friggin laser pointer thats extremely accurate. I have 3 mp7 classes with range and rapid fire. I don't lose many gun battles at distance to ARs. Another good combo is range and silencer, although i choose to have rapid fire.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    mjw3786

    funny I feel the complete opposite...AR's are pointless in this game unless you're a camper and even then a sniper with FMG's is much more effective if you are decent with a sniper rifle.

     

    once you learn the maps and can navigate from cover to cover without exposing yourself to longish sightlines, an SMG is MUCH more effective. there is a catch tho, you MUST use rapid fire and I would highly rec using silencer + rapid fire. the p90, pp90m1, mp7 and ump45 are all fantastic choices. p90 is my personal favorite because of the clip size, but mp7 is probably the best overall since it has almost no recoil and the best range of the SMG's.

     

    pp90m1 already fires so fast without rapid fire. with rapid fire it's like a little shotgun with stopping power.

     

    AR's detract from mobility which is BAD in this game where most of the maps are so small.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    KoRny1

    still not understanding everyone's defense of SMG's

    What I'm hearing is everyone saying that you put range+ and Rapid Fire on an SMG and it's every bit as effective as an AR close-medium range...but what about long range? An AR is good for 3 of 3, I don't get the logic of having to use 2 weapon perks just to make an SMG on par with an AR. Just use an AR!  ...at least then you can use 2 useful perks like Impact or a red dot.

    And another thought is, how many of you use a suppressor on your SMG? if you do, then forget about your midrange effectiveness.

    • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
      Brick2urFace

      With range and rapid fire the smgs extremely outclass the ARs within 65 ft.  and the mp7 with rapid fire can beat most ars at long range also.  Even with rapid fire the mp7 has nearly the same recoil as the acr but it has nearly 160% the acr's rate of fire.  The mp7 only takes .27 seconds to kill at any range but up close the mp7 can kill in .16 seconds, the fastest the acr can kill at close range is .25 seconds.  A rapid fire mp7 is better than the acr at all ranges.

      • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
        KoRny1

        your statistics are too "lab setting" if you get my meaning.

        you assume that the MP7 will down an enemy in .27 seconds from mid range if EVERY bullet flys straight into your enemy's chest. The MP7's accuracy is so atrocious there is NO WAY that gun is half as effective as an assault rifle from that range. at 65ft bullets come out of the MP7 in a cone shape. and please don't remove the validity of your own opinion by claiming the MP7 goes toe to toe with the ACR long range.

    • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?

      i do , i silence any weapon other than a sniper. i also forget about mid range effectiveness but thats because im too busy silently sprinting behind you for the kill. smgs suit a certain playstyle and thats i why rarely deviate from them. ars slow you down and for me that just wont do.

       

      your range argument doesnt wash either with an mp7 i regularly score silent longshots if thats whats required at the time. if i use an acr its because the map has limited rush routes. cant remember ever getting a triple from behind using an a.r because id flanked the enemy spawn but its a regular occurance with a little smg

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?

    SMGs are beast in this game, with the right attachments and proficiencies, of course. 

     

    1. PP90 Rapid Fire/EXT. Mags=RAMPAGE

    2.MP7 silencer =Quick murders

    3.P90 and UMP45.  forgot attachments cus i got them to gold level a while ago.

     

    All these guns are gold for me with a 1.56 k/d with only about 3 1/2 days played.  Only other gold guns i have are the Scar, ACR, and G36C all asault rifles, and the AS50 sniper.

     

    To each their own I guess, i love SMGs for MW3.  I'm a rusher who likes getting multi kill sprays.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    obzi

    I've started looking at the daily and weekly challenges a lot more and this has pushed me into using guns I otherwise would have never looked at.  Some are actually fun and interesting, a 50 kill challenge got me using the L86LSW which I thought would be a nightmare but it was actually pretty good and I got the 50 pretty easily.  I'd like to see the game force us into using each class of weapon before we can prestige, this would help to stop everyone using the same four or five guns.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    creaper21

    PP90M1 and P90 are really good. But you can't use them as an assault rifle. They're SMGs and you should use them like SMGs.

     

    The MP7 is different though. You can literally full-auto from the opposite side of the map on the largest map in the game and hit the enemy with every bullet. I don't know what's easier to use, the MP7 or the ACR.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    Bleak5170

    I don't know man - this is just a rough guesstimate but I'd say 75% of my deaths are to SMG users.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    brsox

    SMGs are good in MW3. They definitely give you an advantage in close quarters as they should.

  • Re: What's the point of SMGs and LMGs?
    brsox

    LMGs are ok. The only thing they really have going for them is the huge magazine.

     

    Speed proficiency with the Grip attachment helps a lot. Try it out.