28 Replies Latest reply: Feb 25, 2012 8:33 PM by trialstardragon RSS

Forums and Devs--do they listen?

thebiindsniper

I know Infinity Ward doesn't read the forums.  Proof of that assumption, was from watching part of the MW3 Content Drop 3 Livestream a few days ago.  Robert Bowling was being interviewed by I don't know who, and watching gameplay from someone who's named xfish. 

 

Anyway, during the interview, one of answers Robert basically gave, was that TWITTER is the best method to let devs know of problems or complaints.  Really now?

 

So what's the point of forums?  Just a place to vent frustrations, while we receive news on updates to calm us down?  It would be nice if the devs (like Treyarch) used the forums more often.


~RUGGED SAVIOR

 

http://www.youtube.com/ruggedsavior

  • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
    thebiindsniper

    In addition, Robert was asked about Final Stand.  He stated that since it doesn't happen every time as a perk, it's less annoying, and that's why it's in the game. 

     

    I like your thinking Robert.  You're a genius.


    ~RUGGED SAVIOR

     

    http://www.youtube.com/ruggedsavior

    • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
      trialstardragon

      He makes a point about FS. It is not like how if it was a perk it would activate every time. So yes it is less annoying for those that can deal with it and not just cry about loosing their precious kill streak. For that is the only reason people hate it so much. Because some random on a death streak may end their streak before they get their so wished for what ever kill streak reward.

       

      And yes these forums are basicly just a place to rant and whine anc cry about things that Activision runs, not IW itself. And they use twitter so they can block those that they do not want to read crying about the same thing for ever and ever and ever no matter what is told to them about what is being done.

       

      Some people do like to cry or rant about things like a broken record and no matter what is said about why it is taking time they do not listen. Some people here do act like entitlement minded kids where they think that their problem is supreme and should be adressed and taken care of asap and that is never the case and never will be.

       

      At least on twitter, they can block that person after the 100000000 time they spammed the same thing if they want. Where on here they would have to have a mod do it every time. Beacuse some people just do not listen and expect things to be fixed or changed the very day or day after it was mentioned. That is simply not how it works in online games; but very few people here seem ot understand or accept that.

      • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?

        trialstardragon wrote:

        And yes these forums are basicly just a place to rant and whine anc cry about things that Activision runs, not IW itself. And they use twitter so they can block those that they do not want to read

        AKA people who don't kiss their asses 24/7.

        • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
          trialstardragon

          Not those that do not kiss their ass. But those that cry over and over and over and over about the same thing because it is not being fixed exactly when that person thinks it should be fixed.

           

          Things take time to fix and then have approved, they can not just fix everything the moment someone cries about it. It takes time to verify problem/code fix/test/ make changes/retest/approve/send out.

           

          But many people here do not understand that or do not care and what their fix when they want it because they think they are entitled to have the game work exactly how they want it when they want it why they want it, and that the developers must comply. When that simply and realistictly is not the case and never has been and never will be.

  • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?

    Because being limited to 140 characters for concerns about a game is somehow better than a forum where you can patrol immature posts unlike on Twitter. DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

     

    The only time we hear from Robert is when he updates the patch notes.

  • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
    iif0xh0undii

    Twitter has many great qualities about it. As a content delivery system, it has outpaced forums at an alarming rate. It also has the benefit of having a structure that is extremely mobile, light and fast. This much is obvious, but it's outstanding qualities should identify a forum's strong points.

     

    • Detailed analysis and discussion.

    • Flexible peer to peer interaction.

    • Easily documented and located content.

    • Specific goals or topics of discussion.

     

    The point of the forums are to be a primary destination for in depth discussion of issues and general topics. Most people simply assume that the forum is the absolute destination for announcements, breaking news or customer support. This hasn't been the case for years. In fact, it no longer is the case for many developers outside of the Call of Duty franchise also. Gamers who have the main concern of voicing and documenting issues need to follow a proper method of doing so. I think the following is a good model.

     

    1. Twitter: Openly discuss your opinions with peers.

    2. Customer Support: Document your issue with a certified agent who can help push your information to the developers.

    3. Twitter: Message the official representive twitter account with your refined impressions or issues.

    4. Forums: Discuss your issue or beliefs in depth and include any "repro" that can aid a developer.

    5. Additional Social Media: Propagate your refined observations and content.

     

    Repro: Steps needed to reproduce the issue. In many cases what you think is happening is irrelevant. A developer needs a way to reproduce what your are seeing, not an often exaggerated or vague description of what you THINK is happening.

     

    • Why go to twitter first? Because an emerging, see trending, issue can be followed and identified quickly.

    • Why go to customer support? Because customer satisfaction is important. They aren't just Mr. or Mrs. MyDiscIsNotWorking, and any issue you bring to the table will be well documented by them.

    • Why go to the forums next to last? Because if you come here first, it'll probably be a "Fix your ****, fix your **** nao" post.

     

    Regardless, the forum has it's reasons for being here. Simply because it isn't what you want it to be does not make it obsolete. It serves as a very important peer-to-peer catalyst for interaction and a brilliant platform for well documented and discussed opinions or issues. It's all about the delivery.

     

    Oh, and your opening statement is wrong. Have you met Ghandi, BanCandy, WiiAdmin, Elite Help, Beachhead and the likes? Each one of these accounts interacts with he forums. They may not post much, but that doesn't mean they aren't reading.

     

    Cheers.

     

    Message was edited by: iif0xh0undii Holy misspelled words Batman!

    • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?

      I still believe Twitter should be either secondary or just another way of communicating. Forums are the base.

       

      Most posts I see on the MW3 Twitter feeds are just like on here: "Fix it, fix it, fix it, fix it!!!!!", but you don't just get that, you get people cussing out the developers or just mindless bashing. Who would want that?

       

      At least on the forums, you can discourage such acts with bans and locking of user's topics. Ghandi is the only developer discussing with us about MW3 in general, he can't handle dozens upon dozens of concerns and complaints. He needs help. The ones who do the tweeting[blogging] can also come here and discuss with players about the game. What is so hard to reply to a few users?

       

      There is so little you can do with limited characters when you are telling the devs something wrong (or just ideas/opinions on whatever) with the game.

    • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
      vims1990

      Problem I have with twitter is that it's easy for developers & customer support to ignore well thought queries.

       

      At least with the forums, I can discuss with other community members who can add their thoughts in a thread & hopefully a developer/s can include their insight to the query.

       

      I'm just glad we have someone like GHANDI on the forums.

    • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
      trialstardragon

      I like how you put it Foxy. That should be easy to understand for anyone that takes the time to read it.

  • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?

    http://www.callofduty.com/thread/1242

    fourzerotwo wrote:

     

    Welcome to the official Modern Warfare 3 forums!

     

    This is YOUR place to discuss anything and everything about Modern Warfare 3 and most importantly provide your feedback to us at the development studios on what you love, hate, and what you want to see more of. Your feedback and opinions are essential in the development of our games. Ideas, suggestions, and discussions from these forums have directly led to tons of features making it into the game (Selectable killstreaks, Killstreak counter on UI, Barebones playlists, Removal of OMA and removal of Commando).  Most importantly, have fun, respect the opinions of others even if you disagree with them, and remember that at the end of the day, we're all part of the same community overall.

     

    @fourzerotwo

  • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
    That5What5Up

    Ohh...

     

    Sorry OP, I thought this was a rhetorical question.

  • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
    bo2000

    First things first, good thread

     

    Also I liked foxhounds summary about which platform to use in which case. If this wasn't just a theory of how things should work, we all would be in a better gaming world. Reality looks a bit different though.

     

    Twitter requires someone who is actually reading and responding tweets. Not responding or only responding to positive tweets doesn't help making this a widely used or helpful tool. I understand that 402 can't reply every message but if IW gave us some contacts for different issues this would help a lot. I know we got some for banning but there's a wider range of issues that's not covered.

     

    Customer Support: Not helpful at all. The best they can do is to is to copy & paste from their faq or tell you that the problem has been given to the corresponding dev team. This is where conversation ends and you never know what's the outcome.

     

    Forums: This is where it should start and end. You got an issue and use excellent search function to find the answer. Be it by an excellent FAQ or by user helps user. I know some excellent forums that achieve this even though the products have awfull support. But they got a strong userbase and some helluva mod that keeps threads clean and shiny.

     

    What we have here is a lot of spam and oppinions and people with different interests. You can't have a decent discussion without trolls disrupting your issue and have to fight to be accessible a.k.a. front page because forum functionality is subpar. The search function is missing advanced search and is nearly impossible to find a specific post. I havent found a way to make use of the bookmark function and to this day it's easier to make a quick post in order to have quick access to my profile and inbox because the appropiate menu leads to a error 500 page. so I don't know if the lack of usability is by accident or to prevent serious discussion here.

    • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
      trialstardragon

      Twitter is a faster way of responding than forums. Forums are taking the background to twitter in many game companies and many other companies besides games because it is easier as faster to reply with. Forums are the old way, twitter is the new way. So it starts with twitter and ends with the forums now.

       

      It is easy to see and understand what Foxy was trying to get across and understand why they use it now more than the forums. Even many politicians use twitter now more than any website or forum to discuss issues.

       

      Just a lot of forum hounds have not just adapted and evolved into this new way of thining and doing things yet and still think the forums should be first.

      • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
        bo2000

        could you repeat that in a tweets lenght, please?

        • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
          trialstardragon

          Twitter is faster, forum is slower. Twitter is the new in thing, Forums are the old out thing. So use Twitter first, forums second.

          • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?

            But twitter doesn't allow for much depth of thought due to its tiny char limit. I'm all for them using twitter if they would say link to a more in depth response like a blog post or maybe a downloadable txt file

          • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?

            trialstardragon wrote:

             

            Twitter is faster, forum is slower. Twitter is the new in thing, Forums are the old out thing. So use Twitter first, forums second.

            You cannot type out a complete thought on Twitter. It is better for announcements and just announcements.

             

            Forums are slower, yes, but you can go into detail on any discussion or have a discussion with users without someone bashing you recklessly like they can on Twitter. The developers are not that busy to not drop a few posts on what they are currently working on in the game.

            • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
              trialstardragon

              The point being that twitter can be used to start the ball rolling faster. You do not need large amounts of details at first. First thing is to state a problem exists and tweet it to see how many others have the same problem. Than gather information, such as game play showing the problem and than show it here on the forums.

               

              Twitter is a great way for companies to offer simple quick answers, not every question asked needs a paragraph long answer as to why something was done or not or when it will be done or not in a game. Just too many people have become acustomed to long drawn out debates about things and think that is the only way it should be done now.

               

              Many people think they need long answers or discussions with lots of details about things, when really all they really need is to know if it is being considered or not. The internet has turned the average person into in information addict where they need more and more and more and more. Where as twitter is for those that need just a short simple quick reply.

              • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?

                trialstardragon wrote:

                 

                [gibberish]

                Many people think they need long answers or discussions with lots of details about things, when really all they really need is to know if it is being considered or not. The internet has turned the average person into in information addict where they need more and more and more and more. Where as twitter is for those that need just a short simple quick reply.

                This just doesn't lock the discussions on the forums to glitches and exploits. There can be threads where they are considering a weapon buff or a decision to remove/add something from/to the game. You can't have a conversation on weapon balance with 100 something characters on Twitter. Do you not know the limits to the micro-blogging site?

                 

                And you still can't make a complete thought on a problem on Twitter. Just stop being ignorant and realize that. <.<

                • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
                  trialstardragon

                  You can make a complete thought as long as your thought does not need to be more than one or two sentences long. Not every thought has to be more than what twitter allows.

                   

                  And yes you can discuss things on twitter just as easily as on a forum just in shorter more rapid replies and not one lenghtly post.

                   

                  Twiiter is the age of the phone texters were forums were the age of the computer texters.

                   

                  A microblog if properly written can covey quite a bit of information. Just the same as how a thesis statment for essay has to be 25 words or less in many colleges. One does not need to have to say 400 words or more to get a point across.

                   

                  The fact that you called the rest of what I said gibberish just proves you are one of the old ones that just does not like the new way of things to come. So refuses to accept it.

                   

                  It proves that you think the long drawn out responses are the best ones and that is not always the case.

    • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?

      Feb.23, 2012

      http://twitter.com/#!/DavidVonderhaar/status/172740524615286784

      @DavidVonderhaar - Treyarch Game Design Director:

      "Just being honest here. I barely have have enough time to get to our own official forums..."

  • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
    mischaelite

    Did you really think that Treyarc or IW would think of this forum as an appropriate outlet or venue for anything that has to do with their games?

     

    There are a lot of more serious outlets (even forums) out there where people who actually has an undivided passion for Modern Warfare/Blops are discussing teqnicues and improvements on a mature level. You couldn´t seriously think this forum is one of them?

     

    Vonderhaar of Treyarc even openly says the community really does not know whats best for them.

     

    This could not come as a surprise to you, I know you´ve been around that long at least.

  • Re: Forums and Devs--do they listen?
    markocc

    Ghandi is great, unfortunately complaining to him or anybody else about the game wont get you anywhere. The game is unfixable. Black Ops was never fixed so I think it's safe to assume this game will never be.

     

    Either elite broke COD or the guy who did the lag balancing took off to Respawn with his top secret knowledge that only him and every single other game developer other than IW/Sledgehammer know about. I find it quite amusing that this billion dollar franchise is the only one who can't seem to figure out how to fix lag.