47 Replies Latest reply: Aug 14, 2012 7:18 AM by ghostwarrior77 RSS

Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

Why do they need a buff?  When they are silenced, a headshot is not a one shot kill.  This was tested by me in several public games, in a few of which I stood right behind an enemy, shot him in the head while scoped in at point blank range, and it did not kill him.  It hurt him badly yes, but kill? no.  This needs to be fixed, like it was fixed in BO.

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
    Godotpwn

    Dragunov especially. RSASS outclasses it in every way...

    • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
      Mrderpski

      Godotpwn wrote:

       

      Dragunov especially. RSASS outclasses it in every way...

      False, someone obviously never used the Dragunov. My baby can outclass you in mag size, starting ammo and movement speed.

       

      The only thing that the RSASS can do is having a high ROF for sniper rifles and low recoil. The damage is the same. Also note that you walk like you're using an LMG. Not worth it bro

       

      -Dragunov lover

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
    Convict7

    Dragunov, sure why not, but RSASS, that gun is just so annoying, the last thing it needs is a buff...

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

    Hmm this coming from a guy that uses a suppressed barrett with damage >_>. The rsASS is in need of a nerf more than a buff but I do agree the dragunov needs one.

    • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

      Yes I use it.  No I don't use it against people who play without glitching.  Get your facts straight.  The damage makes it easier to punish glitchers.  Other than that, I never use that class.  I use l118A suppressed with impact for my main sniper.  And I'm not saying a buff as in overall, just enough that it's a one shot kill to the head when suppressed.  I agree, RSASS needs no more power than it's rapid fire provides currently.

      • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

        LOLOLOLOLOL if you use a glitch to punish glitchers you may as well just shoot yourself as punishment for glitching according to your logic. if you use a glitch to punish glitchers/hackers you are no better than the glitcher/hacker.

        • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

          An eye for an eye.  It works.

          • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

            Eckon.... damage barret?? really... its almost a one shot kill..

            • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

              suppressed damage barrett.  That way I can kill glitchers while staying hidden from his buddies.

              • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

                Nice games the other day Eckon, I think we wouldnt have had the chance to end up in a draw with you guys that Baakara match if you werent trolling the whole match

                 

                And chancellor is just a beast with the sniper, props to him

              • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

                In the other thread you used it for the realism.  Now you say you only use it to kill glitchers.

                You are giving different reasons to try and justify your gltiching/cheating.  That's just sad.

                 

                They aren't going to change it for the reasons I explained in the other thread.  You should never have a one hit kill weapon from across the map AND not give away your position on radar.  It's all about balance.  Like I said before, having a one shot kill from across the map, not giving up your postion on radar, on top of acog quickscoping, and the ability to use Blind Eye to avoid AI controlled killstreaks is too much of an advantage.  Whether you would personally use that combination or not is irrelevant.  Though I'm sure you will since you are so desperate to get an advantage that you keep the damage glitch.  But even if you don't use that combo other people will.  That possible combination is not balanced. 

                • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

                  I can guarantee you this everyone, I will not stand for ANY glitching/cheating in my clan.  This will be resolved and I apologize for Eckon's actions personally. 

                   

                  I'm am not a happy camper right now...

                • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

                  edit: Because I accidently posted a double negative the other day (I don't think there is nothing wrong)

                  I disagree.

                   

                  I don't think there's anything wrong with OSOKing with a sniper w/ a supressor in general, accross the map per se.

                   

                  The major issue though, IMO in terms of balance, is WHERE in the body of the target--it should OSOK.

                   

                   

                  I don't think OSOK areas w/ a silencer on the sniper rifles should be taken off completely. I don't mind if the high powered sniper rifles lose their OSOK to the chest w/ a silencer in this game, but retaining the OSOK to the head and neck w/ a silencer is more than balanced--as

                   

                  1. You're dealing with a very small area of the target's body that has the OSOK area--which requires you more time to actually move your cross hair to head/neck

                  2. It requires you to be more stealthy on unsuspecting targets, and timing is also important as well

                  3. It's only effective against stationary targets. Against good players who constantly run and gun and can spot you quite easily. <-- all these 3 reasons actually make OSOK to the head and neck w/ a suppressor more of a novelty and actually less useful than using a sniper rifle that you can get consistent OSOKs to the chest on targets in most situations--especially against really good players.

                   

                  This is all coming from my experience from using and maining the Dragunov with a silencer in Black Ops (that could only OSOK to the head and neck w/ silencer) from prestiges 3 to 8--and averaged almost 90% headshot/total kills. Trust me when I say, that having those 2 small OSOK areas alone w/ silencer attachment is not worth using over OSOK to the chest w/out a silencer-in most situations, especially against good players.

                  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
                    like2nap03

                    It's not the gun that's the problem.  It's the combination of that with the other perks.  The only one that is up for argument is the Draganov.  The RSAS has too high of a rate of fire.  Maybe add something else to the Draganov (I don't use it so nothing comes to mind) but no gun should be a one shot kill and not give away your position in this game due to the scenario I listed above. 

                     

                    On a big map like Bakaara even a run and gunner is a sitting duck against a good sniper who can quickscope in that scenario.  Throw in akimbo FMG9's, that every sniper seems to use when they are found, and it's just ridiculous.  Nerf those and then maybe it could be up for discussion.  But never being on the radar, on top of everything else I mentioned, with an extremely overpowered secondary, is just not balanced.

                    • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

                      No, the gun IS the problem. Perks are accessible to everyone and are just there to supplement different playstyles.

                       

                      The Dragunov is far from being useless, but so is the PM9, CM901, PKP and other guns that are the worst in its class. The point is that there is no practical use for these guns over other guns in its class that outclass them in almost every practical way.

                       

                      Dragunov is no different. Only usable/consistent way to use this gun is to treat it as a battle rifle and go prone to reduce the recoil and sway, and double tap. But the other sniper rifles + MK14 do it much better, and outclass the Dragunov in every situation. The 4 high powered sniper rifles get OSOK much more consistentally and will never need to double tap/spam shots, and the RSASS AND MK14 does it much better as battle rifle since it has much better recoil, faster reload/swap times + larger mag size/overall more ammo. Hell, you can go prone with the Barret and get the same almost non-existent recoil as the Dragunov, yet you still retain that OSOK all the way down to the stomach w/out a silencer. But overall, none of the 5 other sniper rifles require being forced to go prone, to be usable in most situations, and they are much better overall to use against most players--especially experienced players.

                    • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

                      What's your point about the function of perks and sniper rifles vs other weapon classes in long range maps like Bakaara? What does this have to do with the issue of the main topic? You're pulling a red herring/strawman argument, by talking about a completely different issue all together, out of no where.

                       

                       

                      -

                      If silenced sniper rifles were broken, everyone would be using them and there would be a mass complaint, but there isn't. Hardly anyone cares. While I wouldn't mind not having a OSOK to the chest w/ a silencer, I still disagree about taking sniper rifles OSOK areas to the head and neck with the silencer, for the reasons I already stated the other day.

                       

                      If you want to complain how broken sniper rifles are with a OSOK to the head and neck with a silencer at least, actually USE it first for an hour or two in games like CoD:Black Ops before complaining with your zero experience, and report your results here. Because I already have with Black Ops with the Dragunov w/ silencer from prestiges 3 to 8, and I was one of the only very few who actually used the silencer in BO. You don't have to take my word for if you don't want to, but I have the experience, and I know what the hell I'm talking about. But again, before you can make an argument, go actually try getting consistent OSOKs to the head and neck w/ a silencer vs w/out a silencer that OSOKs to the chest at least, and tell me how it plays in most situations.

                      • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
                        like2nap03

                        lol calm down.  I don't get why people get so irritated when someone disagrees with them.  That's ALWAYS going to happend at some point.  You touched on what I was getting at and we agree to a point.  I don't think any gun should be a one shot kill AND not give away your position on radar.  Period.  That ability in combination with the things I mentioned is too much of an advantage.  I'm not pulling it out of nowhere.  Anyone can use the combination of things I mentioned and have a very nice advantage on maps like Bakaara.  Maybe not with the Draganov, but with other sniper rifles at least.  Just read over that part again.  If it doesn't make sense I'll try to reword it.

                         

                        I'm not actually complaining because the problem doesn't exist.  I'm stating why I don't want the problem to exist.  Back to where we almost agree.  You mentioned several problems with the Dragonov besides the fact that it's not a one shot kill with a silencer.  I think those issues should be addressed.  You mentioned how you need to go prone with the Draganov to reduce the recoil enough where it matches other snipers.  The others also have faster reload times, etc.  Maybe buff those aspects of the gun.  I just don't think any weapon should be a one shot kill from across the map with a silencer due to the scenario I mentioned. (never giving away your position with assasin.  Not being targeted by AI controlled killstreaks due to Blind eye, Wiimote acog quickscoping, etc) That's  why I brought that stuff up.  If it doesn't make sense I'll try to explain further.  At the same time though complaining about those aspects of the gun is the same as saying the MP5 needs a buff because it's not as good as the P90.

                         

                        If you simply don't agree then there is no point in arguing about it.  Neither of us really have more that we can bring to the argument and we will have to agree to disagree.  If that's the case then I wish you well in your quest to get a buff for this gun and I admire the effort you are putting into it.  I take it you loved the gun in Ops and don't like it in this game.  I guess that's what happens when you have two different developers making these things every year.  One of the downsides to the way they make these games.  With that in mind, do you think you might have more luck posting this on the 360 forum?  IW is the one that will have to decide it needs a buff anyway, not Treyarch, and they look at that forum more than anyone looks at this one.  Just a suggestion. (if you haven't done so already)

                         

                        On a side note I'm probably never going to be running around with sniper rifles.  Well at least not in the near future.  My connection lags too much.  It makes sniping a nightmare.  In all these games.  I have to stick with automatic weapons unfortunately untill I get an internet upgrade.  Just trust me on that.  My connection is bad and it's all i've got where I live and it doesn't mix well with sniping.  Though I did try "sniping" a few times with the M16 in Black Ops and did quite well but it has a 3 round burst to help me out.

                        • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

                          You not agreeing with Sniper rifles getting OSOks with the silencer is your opinion (which I partly agree with--but only when it comes to not getting OSOKs to the chest w/ the silencer, which the Barret/AS50/2 bolt actions can do in this game), but I still disagree about not allowing sniper rifles to OSOK to the head and neck with the silencer, because I have the experience to back it up--that it is not as nearly as effective as sniping unsilenced with a  OSOK to the chest and below on an actual real-world functional basis in this game, due to the disadvantages I already mentioned twice.

                           

                          IF it was broken/unbalanced, then all the good snipers would be using it, with newbs to follow. But it isn't. This is why you see the most powerful guns and setups used the most, and the least powerful guns hardly used--if not at all--in pub matches. It's just pure logic and instinctive that most people play to win with the best guns(only the strongest survive) and perk/attachment setups.

      • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

        Eckon - Change that class.  SKS does not allow glitching and you know this.  Please let me know when you have.

      • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
        Mrderpski

        Impact on sniper rifles dont work well.

         

         

        Just sayin

        • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

          which reminds me.. The high powered 98 damage sniper rifles have a huge advantage against the Dragunov/RSASS, when taking out targets covered by surfaces(buildings/wood/etc). Also the 4 high powered sniper rifles can always OSOK a ballistic vest target to at least from the head to the chest, while the Dragunov/RSASS can't.

          • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
            Mrderpski

            But the question is, can they be converted to an assault rifle like the MK14?

             

            Dragunov obviously can with the help of ACOG and its mobility of an assault rifle.

            • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

              No, they can't.

               

              And RSASS is much better at emulating MK14, then the Dragunov, because it has the same mag size, and similar reload speeds and recoi at least.

               

               

              MK14 still does the much job better than RSASS and Dragunov at being a battle rifle for cqc and medium range combat, because MK14 has a faster ADS time, more managable and predictable recoil, much better hipfire spread, AR movement speed, and more attachment and perk customization, and that OSOK to the head with a silencer.

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
    VelvetUnicor

    i never thought the dragunov needed a buff, i mean its been so bad in past games anyway... but i sure would not turn one down.  And using a damage barrett makes you just as bad as the glitchers.  You can not justify using it.  Cheating is cheating.

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
    creaper21

    The only changes I want is a OHK in the head no matter what and the Dragunov needs a buff in general as it's a horrible sniper. Even with an Acog for closer combat, it's still underpowered.

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
    momskirbyok

    The RSASS is made to be suppressed though.

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

    Yes, prepatch(talking about prior to our most recent bigpatch a mongh ago) allowed both guns to OSOK to the head with a silencer(and neck)--but that was due to a bug that was never intended--which allowed all sniper rifles to not lose any damage drop off with the silencer attached--this means that the 4 high power sniper rifles OSOK all the way down to the stomach w/ a silencer(same as w/out silencer), instead of losing the OSOK to the stomach w/ silencer--like the HD versions.

     

    However, I'm saddened by the Drag losing its OSOK to the head w/ silencer, as that is what I mained for a week, before the patch.

     

    The bigger issue though--is that the Dragunov needs a big buff in general, not just the OSOK to the head and neck w/ a silencer. It needs that OSOK to the chest w/out a silencer--which COD4 and BO Drag had--or else it's just completely outclassed by the RSASS in every way(lower recoil, faster reload times, faster swap times, and 2x the mag size) it isn't equal to (semi auto RoF and power) minus movement speed.

     

    I personally don't think the RSASS doesn't need a buff, because it's pretty much an M21 on steroids, but if it got the OSOK to the head w/ a silencer, I wouldn't mind I guess. But my main focus is on the Dragunov.

     

    And Here's the thing though.. Treyarch ported this game, and they can't patch gametuning updates, without IW's consent--and IW has to do it first with the HD versions.

     

    Also If you want to help get these guns patched, you need to bring the issue on to the  the general CoD forum in the patch thread.

     

    I actually did bring up the issue to buff Dragunov about 2 weeks ago, and I did actually got noticed by a developer (G H A N D I I) who does note suggestions to the weapons team who are directly involved in the patches--but he said it won't be a "priority."

     

    http://community.callofduty.com/message/205428111#205428111

     

    So, I need support from you guys to buff this weapon! The more people we get to post on that thread--who legitatametely want to help me buff the Dragunov, the better and more likely it will be prioritized, as I'm representing hundreds of people that want this gun to be buffed.

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
    fissuresofrequent

    MK14 with thermal+damage. <--for the pros

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
    infinitlag

    Dragunov needs a serious buff. Its just not like the other sniper riffles.

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.
    nintendon't

    lolwut? The RSASS is one of the best SMGs in the game, it needs a nerf more than anything else.

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

    fF you want the Dragunov to get prioritized in getting patched, please like or comment on my post on the link below in the patch thread:

     

    All it needs IMO, is to increase its base damage from 70 to 98 (and 50 to 70 w/ silencer), to make it as good as the COD4/BO black ops, and compete with the other 4 current high powered sniper rifles.

     

    http://community.callofduty.com/thread/100584619?start=6150&tstart=0

     

    It's the only way. I just need numbers, as that's the only way a gametuning patch will get noticed by devs. I can't do it alone.

  • Re: Dragunov and possibly RSASS buff NEEDED.

    I don't agree that both the dragunov and rsass need to be buffed to have the headshot one kill but in all honestly everyone here is mistaken on what the dragunov and rsass actually are. Yes they're classified as sniper rifles in the game, but if you actually take the time to google both weapons, they're not sniper rifles, they are actually designated marksman rifles, therefor the lower base power is on par with the assault rifles on which they are based on. And for the record, i run with both the dagunov and rsass and i don't get alot of one shots to the head but i do get alot of kills because of the speed in which they fire and yes i run the suppressor on the dragunov and rsass.