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  • 120. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.

    platinumb wrote:

     

    bubbacake wrote:

     

    I definitely feel that the LMG's need a major buff. All they have going for them is large magazine size: that's it. They have damage drop-off over range and have the same damage of the assault rifles. That's terrible.

     

    What I would do is

     

    - Give them more ammo. LOTS more ammo. I mean, a lot of ammo. As in I should never run out of it anytime soon.

    - Allow you to set it up anywhere. I wish they would have taken this farther in W@W with the bipods, because I always wondered why they bothered putting the bipod model on the gun without it even being usable. If you were to deploy the bipod, it would give you laser accuracy and almost no recoil at the cost of movement.

    -Allow them to penetrate almost any object, and I mean anything. You should also not require impact to make it work. It should penetrate greatly without it.

    - Give them no sway.

    - Give them less recoil.

    - Give them infinite range.

    LMGs need a buff, but thats a little bit overkill. No sway can be a gem one or two of the LMGs have, but not universal.

     

    Also, the purpose of the bipod is kinda built into all primary weapons. When going into crouch or prone, the weapon receives less sway and recoil.

    You can't do no sway because then stability becomes useless.

    You can't do infinite range because of the silencers and the fact that 4/5 of the LMGs are 3HKs.

     

    They just need to buff the minimum damage by 20% on all the LMGs and increase the range by 50% on all the LMGs. That way they have better minimum damage and range than the ARs and for sniper range you have the prone bonus.

  • 121. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.

    TestofTide wrote:

     

    platinumb wrote:

     

    bubbacake wrote:

     

    I definitely feel that the LMG's need a major buff. All they have going for them is large magazine size: that's it. They have damage drop-off over range and have the same damage of the assault rifles. That's terrible.

     

    What I would do is

     

    - Give them more ammo. LOTS more ammo. I mean, a lot of ammo. As in I should never run out of it anytime soon.

    - Allow you to set it up anywhere. I wish they would have taken this farther in W@W with the bipods, because I always wondered why they bothered putting the bipod model on the gun without it even being usable. If you were to deploy the bipod, it would give you laser accuracy and almost no recoil at the cost of movement.

    -Allow them to penetrate almost any object, and I mean anything. You should also not require impact to make it work. It should penetrate greatly without it.

    - Give them no sway.

    - Give them less recoil.

    - Give them infinite range.

    LMGs need a buff, but thats a little bit overkill. No sway can be a gem one or two of the LMGs have, but not universal.

     

    Also, the purpose of the bipod is kinda built into all primary weapons. When going into crouch or prone, the weapon receives less sway and recoil.

    You can't do no sway because then stability becomes useless.

    You can't do infinite range because of the silencers and the fact that 4/5 of the LMGs are 3HKs.

     

    They just need to buff the minimum damage by 20% on all the LMGs and increase the range by 50% on all the LMGs. That way they have better minimum damage and range than the ARs and for sniper range you have the prone bonus.

    Kick is useless on the MP7, M4A1, Type 95, M16, and MK14. I see no one finding a problem with that.

     

    You can do infinite range if you give dropoff damage when the weapon is suppressed.

     

    I see no problem giving LMGs infinite range when they have to compete against dominate ARs who have higher mobility, more range, higher RoF overall, faster ADS times, lower recoil, and are more accessible to players in general.

     

    LMGs, before BO, were 2HK with Stopping Power and 3HK without at any range and not a single, literate person found them a issue in balance.

     

    Hell, they do not have to give every LMG infinite range. Just add that to certain weapons that need it, like the PKP, and you can increase minimum damage to others if needed, like the L86.

     

    You are looking at a very small picture when looking at this. You must take into account what LMGs generally lack and what other weapons are better at in those areas.

  • 122. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.

    I think you don't understand visually what 50% more range and 20% more minimum damage would do. It would basically mean this (assuming that the LMGs still haven't been patched):

     

    - The MK46 and LSW would have 3HK range of around 1600 units (40 meters)

    - The LSW wouldn't be a 5HK until around 2250 units (57 meters)

    - The PKP would have 3HK range of around 2100 units (52 meters)

    - The MG36 would have 3HK range of around 1900 units (49 meters)

    - The M60 would have a 2HK range of around 1100 units (27 meters) and would never be a 4HK

    - All LMGs except the LSW would kill in one bullet in hardcore mode at all ranges

    - PKP, MK46, and MG36 would only need one headshot to kill in bullets at any range

    - M60 would be a 2 headshot kill at any range

     

    And the silenced LMGs would still have range that is better than or around unsilenced AR range.

     

    Meanwhile your idea of infinite range wouldn't work with the silencer and would make the LMGs unbalanced among each other.

     

    For comparison, the distance between the cafe balcony and back wall of the tourist shop on resistance is only 47 meters. Nearly every notable sightline that is longer than 40 meters is a sightline that you can utilize the prone stance in.

     


    The biggest problems with the LMGs in MW3 has always been the slightly low minimum damage and range that is actually WORSE than the assault rifles.

  • 123. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.
    derpityderp

    TBH, that sounds just fine. M60 should be 2-3HK.

     

    Silenced LMGs would still have all the drawbacks of LMGs [Recoil, ADS speed, hipfire, movement, reload*.. any others?] and not be OP at all against ARs.

  • 124. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.

    TestofTide wrote:

     

    I think you don't understand visually what 50% more range and 20% more minimum damage would do. It would basically mean this (assuming that the LMGs still haven't been patched):

     

    - The MK46 and LSW would have 3HK range of around 1600 units (40 meters)

    - The LSW wouldn't be a 5HK until around 2250 units (57 meters)

    - The PKP would have 3HK range of around 2100 units (52 meters)

    - The MG36 would have 3HK range of around 1900 units (49 meters)

    - The M60 would have a 2HK range of around 1100 units (27 meters) and would never be a 4HK

    - All LMGs except the LSW would kill in one bullet in hardcore mode at all ranges

    - PKP, MK46, and MG36 would only need one headshot to kill in bullets at any range

    - M60 would be a 2 headshot kill at any range

     

    And the silenced LMGs would still have range that is better than or around unsilenced AR range.

     

    Meanwhile your idea of infinite range wouldn't work with the silencer and would make the LMGs unbalanced among each other.

     

    For comparison, the distance between the cafe balcony and back wall of the tourist shop on resistance is only 47 meters. Nearly every notable sightline that is longer than 40 meters is a sightline that you can utilize the prone stance in.

     


    The biggest problems with the LMGs in MW3 has always been the slightly low minimum damage and range that is actually WORSE than the assault rifles.

    Even with the boost, there will still be weapons that have more range than the LMGs, the Type 95 for example. To add salt to the scar, the Type 95 comes with a 2HK, an uber 1000RPM when fired, and with around 2000 range. That is from DOM Flag C on Mission to a few units pass the forklift.


    Your 50% boost will still put them behind that gun when it comes to versatility. What harm is it to add infinite range to weapons with generally high recoil, low mobility, slower TTKs, slower RoF, and slower ADS times? This is one of those unique features that aid to keep LMGs from being weaker ARs with round drums.

     

    How will my idea of suppressed make the LMGs unbalanced among eachother? How it was in MW2 is probably the best way to have them - They have infinite range until suppressed and that is when the lose their infinite range and some power. Do explain. 

     

    They do not have to make infinite range universal. Some weapons do need it more than others, like the PKP. MK46 can get a its minimum damage buffed for compensation for its phenomenal RoF. Same with L86 with its manageable recoil.

     

    It is all about variety, compensation, and what the other weapons in different categories can do when buffing an entire class.

  • 125. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.

    platinumb wrote:

     

    Even with the boost, there will still be weapons that have more range than the LMGs, the Type 95 for example. To add salt to the scar, the Type 95 comes with a 2HK, an uber 1000RPM when fired, and with around 2000 range. That is from DOM Flag C on Mission to a few units pass the forklift.


    Your 50% boost will still put them behind that gun when it comes to versatility. What harm is it to add infinite range to weapons with generally high recoil, low mobility, slower TTKs, slower RoF, and slower ADS times? This is one of those unique features that aid to keep LMGs from being weaker ARs with round drums.

     

    How will my idea of suppressed make the LMGs unbalanced among eachother? How it was in MW2 is probably the best way to have them - They have infinite range until suppressed and that is when the lose their infinite range and some power. Do explain. 

     

    They do not have to make infinite range universal. Some weapons do need it more than others, like the PKP. MK46 can get a its minimum damage buffed for compensation for its phenomenal RoF. Same with L86 with its manageable recoil.

     

    It is all about variety, compensation, and what the other weapons in different categories can do when buffing an entire class.

     

    1) No, the type 95 would NOT have more range than the LMGs. In fact with the simple increases I just mentioned the M60 would have further 2HK range. That 2000 range is when it does 20 damage. It's only a 2HK up around 970 units.

    1a) It's the type 95, you can't say LMGs would still suck simply because they wouldn't beat an OP gun.

     

    2) From a programming perspective it would make more sense to just give the LMGs such good range that in most situations you wouldn't notice the dropoff unless you use a suppressor. That's pretty much what a 50% increase in range and 20% increase in minimum damage would do. Even a 40% range increase and 20% increase in minimum damage would do this effectively

     

    3) Variety is a good point because removing the dropoff would limit the variety. The PKP would be useless considering that the MK46 fires faster AND has less recoil. The MG36 would be useless compared to the LSW.

     

    4) I suggest you do this because it really puts into perspective what ranges we are talking about here: Go play a private match where you just run around the maps with an XM25 and measure the distances of the notable sightlines. I gave you an example of a sightline on resistance and how even a long sightline like that wouldn't cause you to notice the suggested PKP's damage drop unless you were using a silencer.

     

    5)There is a likely possibility that most of the attachments in this game aren't programmed per gun but just a simple effect that works the same on all guns with only simply applied exceptions (such as per weapon class difference) and therefor they wouldn't be able to make the silencer cause a specified dropoff range.

     

    6) The reason I'm suggesting such a simple buff across all the LMGs is because the LMGs are well balanced between each other. Everyone thinks the LMGs are bad because the LMGs don't have infinite range when it has more to do with the fact that the LMGs have WORSE range than the ARs currently. It should be changed so that without a silencer nearly every sightline where the LMGs start to drop off is a sight line where you can utilize the prone bonus.

  • 126. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.
    9blackguys

    I understand a few things about the LMG's, I mean CoD is no simulator but a person using an LMG shouldn't be runnin' 'n' gunnin'. That said however, I feel a lot slower using them in this game than I ever did with the Stoner in Black Ops

  • 127. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.
    anoreo

    Actually, I'm fairly certain that suppressed LMGs still had infinite range, but after a few feet, their damage would drop. If the LMG did 40 damage, after a few feet it would dip to 30 and it would then be 30 damage across the rest of the board

  • 128. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.

    anoreo wrote:

     

    Actually, I'm fairly certain that suppressed LMGs still had infinite range, but after a few feet, their damage would drop. If the LMG did 40 damage, after a few feet it would dip to 30 and it would then be 30 damage across the rest of the board

    In MW2, suppressors simply reduced damage on the LMGs like with the snipers. There was no damage drop added.

  • 129. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.

    first off remove rapid fire from type 95,  shotguns need completly redone, its really not that hard just make the rate of fire coinside with the range ie  aa12 least range - spaz or ksg (not sure which is slower) has most range.  I don't really understand why the stryker has so much range and rate of fire, completly overshadowing the other shotguns  but mostly make them more consistant, i should not be getting ohk with a spaz from from 10-15 ft but then get hitmarkers at 2 ft.  Also why is there no headshot multiplyer for shotties??   As much as i hate to admit it the mp7 probly needs a slight nerf maybe more recoil? I dont know

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