47 Replies Latest reply: May 30, 2012 5:09 PM by lukele RSS

Lag Compensation

Yes, I know you are tired of discussing this topic, but I feel the need to bring it up and not let it die. I've been playing Call of Duty for three years now and I know I'm not an average player. In fact I'm in one of the biggest PS3 Youtube clans. Well, mentioning that, I used to average 20/5 games all the time on Modern Warfare 2 using a sniper doing what those call quickscoping. Coming to MW3 I now average 5/25 due to compensation. I have scattered the internet for solutions to this problem and only one has worked with minimal effect is UDP Flooding: http://gyazo.com/f40ed03853b29ce84f0d8e988dea4919. It's the process of making me lag so the compensation can be toned down a bit. I just want to know why can't Activision get rid of this if they have more than enough money to do so? MW2 had near perfect net-coding varying by connection. If you had a good host you can always get a 4-Bar. Now on this game you have a 4-Bar but it acts very similar to a 2-Bar which is ridiculous. I always get taken out with 2 bullets and get a massive amount of hitmarkers because of player sponging. I literally shoot people in the head and see the little floating x right after. The purpose of Lag Compensation was to, "bring balance to the playing field," but what it's really doing is destroying it. People who pay good money for their connection are being penalized so some cheap consumer can have an advantage over them. The only thing Lag Compensation does is switch the roles of the good/bad players. Every time after having a short session of MW3 I get a massive amount of frustration and search the internet for those in my current situation. Now don't get me wrong, I know Lag Compensation is in every online game including the other Call of Dutys but why did they have to destroy it's purpose when implemented in Black Ops and now MW3? I actually got so fed up with the game I wasted my time to create an account just to vent. The game has only been out Five Months and I have 3 days of 'time played.' During Modern Warfare 2's release I already had 10 days of 'time played' showing I have little interest for this current title. It surprises me people even bother playing it seeing as it's recycled beyond potential. I wouldn't mind that though if it wasn't for this 'balance' added to our playing field. Please developers listen to us and carry on a patch to get rid of this s**t. I am not the only person complaining about this and that's a fact. Also, all of these 'hot-fix' patches to combat the compensating isn't doing anything ..

  • Re: Lag Compensation

    Removing lag compensation is not the issue. Lag copmpensation is in every fps game and has been for ages. The game would be totally unplayable for the vast majority if you take it out. It needs tweeking not removing.

    • Re: Lag Compensation

      I can't agree more, lag comp has been in every cod game so far. Back in the please unreal and unreal tournament days there was no such thing as lag comp, you had to lead the shot depending on the players ping time, the only form of lag comp back then came in the form of a mod called zero ping which served the same purpose but only a few servers ran it and it was the majority of instance Gibbs server's t. hat ran it.

       

      Like what is said above lag comp only needs tweaking not removed, remove lag comp and the game will be unplayable.

      • Re: Lag Compensation

        Yes, I actually mentioned that I knew it was in the previous games. What I want them to remove is the broken side of Lag Compensation so the game could be fair and playable. It's really annoying getting s**t talked to by some guy running Dial Up to play his games.

        • Re: Lag Compensation

          Mw2 worked fine (except for the hacked lobbies)... So why change it. This game is basically a mw2 clone, except they got rid of the good stuff and kept the bad from BO.

          • Re: Lag Compensation

            I know! They had it all right in MW2 other than the Ump45, Commando, and OMA, but it's been nearly two years now and the game isn't even frustrating. It would be nice if they could bring a patch to get rid of the Uav Hack and Aim Assist kids to their title though.

          • Re: Lag Compensation

            GhostmanLoon wrote:

             

            Mw2 worked fine (except for the hacked lobbies)... So why change it. This game is basically a mw2 clone, except they got rid of the good stuff and kept the bad from BO.

             

            Go play MW2 in a 3 bar lobby. People are delusional and their nostalgia completely blinds them from the truth.

             

            MW2 on a 4 bar against 2/3 bar players meant that enemies were skipping around the map. On a 2/3 bar against 4 bar players, shots never registered.

            • Re: Lag Compensation

              ^^^ this is how I remember mw2, even on the 360. I owned a 360 before I owned a ps3 and played mw2 on the 360. Mw2 had just as much issues with lag as what mw3 does on the ps3.

              • Re: Lag Compensation

                God it doesn't even come close. The lag in MW2 actually depended on your download/upload speed and how good your internet provider was. I could easily go positive in COD4/MW2 with a 2 BAR but struggle to maintain a neutral score in MW3. The lag is completely different and should be dealt with already.

                • Re: Lag Compensation

                  You are just as blind as all of the other people out there saying that mw2 didn't have the same issues as mw3. My connection was always 4 bar in mw2 and still suffered with nothing but hitmarker, no hitmarker jumping and skipping people running around corners and you shoot them first but you die, bullets bending around corners and so on. I get the same issues in mw3 and its not my connection doing it, my connection is 20/2 and get a ping around the 20s and lower when I stick to usa when pinging many places. No my connection is not the best but its not dialup, its more then enough to play this game online with ease. In this game I'm almost always a 3 bar. And no I am not using wireless, I always use wires. I see the very same issue as what I seen in mw2.  I have been playing fps games since doom so don't sit there and tell me what I do and do not see or experienced. Both games suffered from the same damn issues.

                • Re: Lag Compensation

                  I think your right. I upgraded my ISP connection to the fullest just for COD about 4years ago and it worked better then before. Butt now it's really different it doesn't work any more so i'm gonna Downgrade cause i'm paying bigg money for someting that doesn't have no more affect.

                   

                  Only thing is that not all the COD players have the same connection problem some people don't have these problems so what kind of stuff do they have that we dont??

                  Maybe Fibreglass and expensive Gaming routers???

                   

                  My opinion is for the most part of us : It's not the one with the best skills anymore but the one with the Best Connection Wins almost Every 1on1 gun battle and that's not fun especially when u where faster as Him / Her and u hear the trash talk afterwards thinkin they really better

                  • Re: Lag Compensation
                    rainmaker6

                    sabitoh wrote:

                     

                    Maybe Fibreglass and expensive Gaming routers???

                     

                     

                    Upgrading my router helped me. I bought the Netgear N900 which I consider top of the line for home routers. N750 is very good as well and is basically the same performance, except for the wireless throughput, and is cheaper. You have to go to the small buisness class routers to get better wired throughput which puts you in the $250 range which is a little pricy for most. Stay away from the Cisco Linksys E4200 router. Cherry picked versions sent to test sites look great but many who buy production versions don't get the performance tested and the router overheats. This will directly effect the life of the product.

                    sabitoh wrote:

                     

                    My opinion is for the most part of us : It's not the one with the best skills anymore but the one with the Best Connection Wins almost Every 1on1 gun battle and that's not fun especially when u where faster as Him / Her and u hear the trash talk afterwards thinkin they really better

                     

                    There is probably some truth to that. I suspect aim assist doesn't work correctly when you are firing at an opponent that has a bad connection because they are not in the location you actually see them on your screen. Another reason why it should be removed.

              • Re: Lag Compensation
                lukele

                from day one to the day i sold mw2 i never once saw any of this i really dont know what your talking about in my mw2 experience every death and every kill was legit i never had a reason to complain it's not just IW either bungie messed up when they made reach mass effect 3 let hordes of people down even diablo 3 has lost what made them legendary i could go on but frankly games just aren't as good as they used to be please for the love of god everyone give us better not more and if you don't agree your part of the reason i read alot these days

    • Re: Lag Compensation

      Actually it's not in every game, you're sorely misinformed,  and even though I don't play Battlefield, they have dedicated servers and their game is far more intensive on the graphics card... Why hasn't Activision gotten dedicated servers yet?  BECAUSE THEY ARE CHEAP AND TRYING TO SQUEEZE EVERY PENNY OUT OF US! Heck, EA even gives you the option to buy your own server now... I've already shelled out $100 for this crap what's another $50..

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    K1ller_911

    Everyone is experiencing lag in the game some alot more then others. I am on the very bad end of it probably like you are. But some people it rarely ever affects them, these people are the ones who say the game is too easy, get moabs every day like its nothing. All you have to do is watch some youtube videos and see it, they shoot someone with 3 bullets and they die like there suppose to.  The real reason why MW3 is a mess is because all the good programmers and developers resigned from IW after co founders Jason West and Vince Zampella were fired in 2010. Disgusted by this decision over half of the team (46 to be exact) at infinity ward quit  leaving them with a bunch of noobs to take over. Now you see the results, MW3. And that my friends is the cold hard facts. The name remains the same COD but its inner workings at IW are gutted.

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    pipboy2033

    I read all the comments and most of you guys make the game sound unplayable. I know mw3 has its connection problems but I find it playable 90% of the time. The only times where the things that you guys mention happen to me is when I get thrown a lobby with people from japan or europe. If what you guys mention happened to me I would probably quit playing the game. activision will not do anything about it unless people stop playing COD games and I dont see that happening anytime soon.

  • Re: Lag Compensation

    Does it mean when you host the game u will have disadvantage compared to the non-host player?

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      featherman84

      invincible_4ever wrote:

       

      Does it mean when you host the game u will have disadvantage compared to the non-host player?

      Yes you have a HUGE disadvantage.

      Yesterday I made my first game gone positive while being host.

      The only thing I did change was set my ps3 ip in dmz, the port forwarding I already did since gamelaunch.Somehow since doing this my shots are registered a lot better(when not being host), I can now actually be beast with a M4 instead of choosing acr or t95.

      But being host still is a biatch, think I was lucky yesterday.

      My isp:UPC 50mb d/s 5mb u/s.

      • Re: Lag Compensation

        Luckily I have connection problems, waiting for the ISP to resolve. I'm lagging, being teleported time to time and of course never pull host. But I had really good games like 3-4 K/D (normally it is around 2)

         

        So is the lag compensation really set correctly?!?

  • Re: Lag Compensation

    i just played a few rounds of mw3.. when i wasnt the host i got around 2-5 kdr (per round).. (depending on enemy player).. Then i join a new lobby.. i got about 1.5-1.75 kd.. towards the end i left the game and found out i was the host.. (several times when im the host i get slightly above 1kd or max 2.5kd)..

     

    i didnt feel laggy when im the host.. I dont know how "lag compensation" works.. could anyone explain to me please? 

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    rlbl

    Fundamentally we are all complaining about the same thing, but most people have confused Lag with "Lag Compensation".

     

    I wish someone who "really... really" knew what they were talking about (like maybe a developer) would come on and talk about what is really going on, because post up vids and talk as if the totally know what they are talking about and it just confuses people.  But it its simplest form (not talking about how it works and who gets forked over):

     

    - Lag - delay between players, their actions etc... basically packets between sent across the net and the latency (lag) involved.

    - Lag Compensation: What the game/programming does to "compensate" for the delay.

     

    Did it exist in MW2? You bet your ass.  What I see happening in MW3 happened it MW2, but..

    Has it gotten worse: You bet your ass. BLOPS was terrible, and MW3 seems worse.

     

    Proof? It was not a huge issue in MW2, but have a look at "magic bullet" videos (here is the best one I found, but you can lookup Mw2 Lag as easily as I can: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn1nBR5jOx8). This is why I (and many others) experienced in Mw2 when it came out and a lot of people were playing.

     

    Why? Not sure...This is where I wish someone in the know (people who can deterministically explain what is going on) would come on and say why. We all have theories (mine is that we are put into lobbies with people half way around the world, causing more delay between players, and the quality of bad internet connections) but can I say for sure?

     

    Nope.

     

    (side note: When you run around the corner and you get shot and die, that is hit detection actually working,a nd not the opposite. The person who is slower - or lagged from you - still saw you before you made it around the corner and shot. The game engine - lag compensation - says, yep you hit him, so poof - you are dead)

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      andynewns

      In my opinion, the reason people have a different gaming experince from MW2 to MW3 & Blackops is, In MW2 the lag comp favoured the host now it favours the worst connection.

       

      I have a pretty decent connection, and even when playing MW2 now i never have a problem with lag, or hit detection. I actually went back to MW2 from Black Ops as i couldn't stand the Lag, and didnt like the graphics. So i played it solidly until the release of MW3.

      My experience Good Connection = Beast

      • Re: Lag Compensation

        Host advantage really wasn't a problem because only one player had top priority over you. Now it's the whole lobby.

        • Re: Lag Compensation

          Excatly !! That's why I need some time off from call of duty sometimes why keep playing so much, so i can give away free kills ? while most off the time it should have been my kill.

           

          When i shoot bad or make a mistake thats no problem thats my own mistake,  But this aint and is really frustrating

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      rainmaker6

      rlbl wrote:

       

      Proof? It was not a huge issue in MW2, but have a look at "magic bullet" videos (here is the best one I found, but you can lookup Mw2 Lag as easily as I can: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn1nBR5jOx8). This is why I (and many others) experienced in Mw2 when it came out and a lot of people were playing.

       

      Why? Not sure...This is where I wish someone in the know (people who can deterministically explain what is going on) would come on and say why. We all have theories (mine is that we are put into lobbies with people half way around the world, causing more delay between players, and the quality of bad internet connections) but can I say for sure?

       

      There was definitely lag like this that most experienced in MW2. I even remember dying only after you turned the corner. What seems really f'ed up in MW3 is how even the theater is out of synch. This video is from the theater where someone actually gets around the corner then gets shot. This should never happen. How the f can this happen when the theater and host should be in sync.

       

  • Re: Lag Compensation

    Simply put:

     

    If x is the game speed, people with a slow speed <x will be sped up and the who are faster >x will be slowed down.

     

    So, if you have two players stood next to each other and they both run 50m, the one with the slow connection will get there first but the one with the faster connection will see them arrive together.

  • Re: Lag Compensation

    The next patch should sort things out, it is actually going to make the game connected to the host. Before hand what apparently happened(well happens) is that they take an average ping from the host to the worst connected player and meet half way. What happens is clearly a form of balancing but Ghandi won't admit to it because we are using incorrect terms (A lot of spokes people do this, say one wrong word that has a slightly different meaning and they will deny it because you are using the wrong words). So the following is an explanation:

     

    The host has to sort out connections so the people will have a delay added if they connect to the host faster. Now thats for normal players, what's worse is the host has to manage this, which causes the host to be at a major disadvantage to nearly everyone in the game.

     

    That's not the correct way of explaining I know but that's a rough idea of the current system. The new system (well the old system from previous titles) will be in a patch in mid May. If this doesn't fix it then well this game is done for.

     

    It is the final chance it has.

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      maccabi

      deathmore wrote:

       

      The next patch should sort things out, it is actually going to make the game connected to the host. Before hand what apparently happened(well happens) is that they take an average ping from the host to the worst connected player and meet half way. What happens is clearly a form of balancing but Ghandi won't admit to it because we are using incorrect terms (A lot of spokes people do this, say one wrong word that has a slightly different meaning and they will deny it because you are using the wrong words). So the following is an explanation:

       

      The host has to sort out connections so the people will have a delay added if they connect to the host faster. Now thats for normal players, what's worse is the host has to manage this, which causes the host to be at a major disadvantage to nearly everyone in the game.

       

      That's not the correct way of explaining I know but that's a rough idea of the current system. The new system (well the old system from previous titles) will be in a patch in mid May. If this doesn't fix it then well this game is done for.

       

      It is the final chance it has.

      erm you got that slightly confuddled

      not the host the session (lobby) host is selected after everyone is in the lobby

      • Re: Lag Compensation

        If you mean the host of the game, the person who is selected to be host, then that's what I meant. If not, then I'm more than happy to improve my understanding if you explain it.

        • Re: Lag Compensation
          maccabi

          deathmore wrote:

           

          If you mean the host of the game, the person who is selected to be host, then that's what I meant. If not, then I'm more than happy to improve my understanding if you explain it.

          As it happens watch this.. a video Capp00 and mnyself made explaining the changes

           

           

          • Re: Lag Compensation
            rlbl

            I am happy to see that the devs have at least acknowledged the mess-up, and hopefully it works out to everyone's benefit when it is "fixed".

             

            However people need to realise that lag compensation will still be there; it is the effects of compensation (due to different matching) that will change.... and it should be for the better.

             

            I am correct on that?

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      Hyperbatong

      Can you link where you found the info on this upcoming patch?

  • Re: Lag Compensation

    There is nothing you can do about the lag, best suggestion I have and that helped my lag was 1.. get the best internet you can find in your area.. 2.. get a direct CAT6 cable from your model to your ps3 or Xbox ( if your gay).. shorter the cable the better.. and finally i use to play on my big screen, but found that can cause lag, and is recommended to use a smaller computer monitor.. this should help.. it helped me, going from a crappy wireless connection

  • Re: Lag Compensation

    You wanna know a fix? The cheap people at IW get dedicated servers.

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    Snipingdbag

    Hit register and frame rate constancy definitely isn't as smooth as mw2 was in its prime, though it's easy to hide behind lag comp all the time. I hosted all day today, bar the occasional bs (hit register fail) and frame skipping issues (messing with aim), I did just fine topping most games. The game runs fine when most people are on a 4 bar with the occasional bs here and there as host, especially when people leave you're going to get fcked at host. Then there are a lot of 3 bar games, that run like complete shi-t.

     

    They should go back to mw2 style of compensation, that was much, much better. if I get host all the time with a 3 upload speed, it's quite clear a lot of people with great nets are tempering their connection to avoid hosting or to get compensated...

     

    IW is catering to the masses, thus the insta-kill bs where you can't react won't go away nor will deathstreaks. I died like 10 times in one game to dead man's hand on mission today, ridiculous, got to love split screeners.

    • Re: Lag Compensation

      Great post man. I totally agree. The Mw2 Compensation was probably the best of all the Call of Duty's. I wish IW/Activision/SledgeHammer would listen to their veteran players though.

      • Re: Lag Compensation
        Snipingdbag

        Yeah, the difference is a clear as day and night. Play a private game as host on mw2 and mw3, there is way too much or broken compensation at play in mw3, while the host had an advantage in mw2, now it can easily be the whole lobby. In mw3 they try to level everybody's ping, that's why you get a lot more BS moments while playing mw3 regardless of how good your net and settings are.

         

        Even now when getting into a good mw2 lobby with way less people the hit register is much better / constant, also hosting doesn't feel like a slideshow. Sniping / quickscoping is much more lethal in mw2 do to that reason and the bigger more open maps.

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    K1ller_911

    Theoretically balancing out peoples pings should make things even. It sounds good but it doesnt work. I dont really know for sure what the problem is specifically but alot of it is poor matchmaking and syncing issues. You wont win a gun fight if your thrown into a lobby and have a 500ms ping and everyone else  has a 100ms or better, that i do know for sure. There is a patch coming that is going to attempt to fix matchmaking, its the one in maccabi's video. According to the devs it should be released fairly soon, first half of may. I can gurantee you there is not many people more frustrated with the lag issues in this game then me. I love the concept of the game, the graphics are great but the lag and all that crap makes my blood boil. For whatever reason it's affecting some people alot more then others and i dont know why. Ive been trying to push them into getting this update released asap by posting on the update hotfix thread on the main page. That seems like the only thread that the developers actually interact with people on the forums.  Hopefully the update fixes things, if it doesnt it probably will never get any better. If it does maccabi and capp00 are hero's and you should thank them. Were just going to have to wait it out untill the update arrives.

  • Re: Lag Compensation

    This is still broken - 80% of the time playing with a 50mbps connection the game is unplayable... if i test my ping via LA which is 5300miles away from my home I still get a ping of 155ms - looking at some of the local (to LA) results I could still be made host.... and a lot of the time match making puts me into a US lobby... which is nice to talk to you guys but it makes my game play suck

  • Re: Lag Compensation

    some days i'm hit harder by the lag comp then others. Does it piss me off hell yeah it does but i've learned to deal with it. what they need to do is make the person with the average signal the host and not boost poor signal and cut strong signal players.

  • Re: Lag Compensation

    I've been playing these games since their inception and have played them nine ever since you could with the ps2. Lag has always been an issue which means that activision and infinity ward are either not doing anything about it or are finding it hard to impossible to fix it. With varying degrees of Internet capabilities for people across the world it is always going to be a problem n my opinion.

     

    Do what the vast majority do, and deal with it.

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      K1ller_911

      I pretty much have learned to deal with it but it still pisses me off from time to time. I find it less stressful if I play by myself instead of a clan/party because ill just back out when its garbage. I'm not going to be thrown into a game where their trying to give it to me where I poop without lube.