48 Replies Latest reply: May 1, 2012 8:04 AM by Convict7 RSS

Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

Hello forums,

 

Ever since Rapid Fire was introduced into the Call of Duty scene, it has brought a little versatility to some weapons but in general it has brought more cons than pros.

 

Needless to say it also has brought the same type of weapon to become hard to balance and eventually turning into the most dominant weapon type in Call of Duty games since CoD4 (credit to McZombie).

 

With the introduction of Rapid Fire on CoD4 as Double Tap (credit to McZombie), all maps were dominated by AK-74u Rapid fire players even maps in which other types of weapon would exploit their advantages far more than a Sub-machinegun. Shotguns would be the only way to challenge the CQ rule of Subs, but it would take incredible skill to deal heavy power instantly and accurately.

 

Subs are small, fast moving, slightly higher rate of fire, but don't pack a heavy punch. So they would rule short range situations and close combat instead of medium-long open areas where Sniper Rifles, LMGs and Assault Rifles would rule because of high power and better range.

 

So in Black Ops the Ak74-u had to get re-designed to make it work without being overpowered with Rapid Fire, and still working without having to use Rapid Fire.

 

Now Sub-machine guns have to be designed to work well on their one and then work well with Rapid Fire without being overpowered.

 

On MW3 now we have short range maps everywhere with some long range situations where submachine guns completely reign... Rapid Fire+Silencer becomes such an easy choice because it maxes out your firepower capacity without any consecuence. It doesn't even come at the cost of Sleight of Hand now.

Black ops required you to switch Sleight of Hand for Warlord, hindering your ability to reload fast but pushing your firepower to it's max.

 

While using 2 Attachment Weapon Proficiency does cost you another type of Proficiency but it's a minimal cost, having to deal with recoil is nothing harsh, damage-drop-off is basically unexistent in this game as 85% of the situations are short-mid range.

 

We come to the following paradox.

Should Rapid Fire continue in Call of Duty games? Since it has been out in 2 different games now it has a consistent player base that has gotten used to playing with Rapid Fire and could deal a blow to the overall Call of Duty player base. But rapid fire also comes at a ridiculous cost of all weapons becoming useless against Rapid Fire Submachine guns in short range situations.

 

While it does help to place Subs at an even situation vs Assault Rifles it comes at the cost of making Subs the weapon of choice with no match to deal with them except skilled play.

 

So what's your opinion... Rapid Fire in the next games. Yes or no?

I say we should keep Rapid Fire, but the developer team should actually look at rapid fire and think very well about how they will toll a player for using Rapid Fire (as on CoD4 or BO)... and not how the Dev Team is doing it right now... "Well.. let's just make all guns shoot mighty fast.. why the hell not?"

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Yes

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    I say yes and no, it should be available on certain gins that really need it.

    Not on like a overpowered gun like the AK-74u or something.

    • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      Thing is... the attachments are almost gun type dependant.

       

      So giving Rapid Fire to X guns but not Y gun on the same gun type (SMGs) there would be a huge upset.

       

      Not to mention is has recently been given to some guns that absolutely do not require rapid fire (IMHO) like the Mk14, Type95, and ALL THE LMGs!!

       

      No one uses LMGs (or at least a really really really small percentage does) and I've seen very few players try out classes that involve rapid fire + speed proficiency on high power, low fire rate LMGs. It just breaks the game honestly. Personally I've tried the set up and ever since Prestige 1, I save a class for an MK46 + Rapid Fire + Speed + Extreme Conditioning... and even though I move slightly slower, I always catch up and we end up in the same spot at the same time because of Extreme Conditioning, you don't even need the Pro Version... if you get Pro it just turns you into a slightly faster player than someone else holding an AR with any perk other than Extreme Conditioning. Not to mention you have a huge clip, heavy firepower, fast firerate weapon. So if anyone comes up to you, you can blast him away (including SMGs+Rapid Fire)

       

      An LMG player doesn't need Sleight of Hand as the reload is still pretty long, so Extreme Conditioning is a must, add Speed Proficiency on the LMG and you can run just as fast as any player on your team.

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    This is the same reson why akimbo should only be availible on regular pistols and not machine pistols.

    • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      Nah... pistols don't need Akimbo... I honestly think Pistols + Silencers and a trained trigger finger are just fine.

       

      My trigger finger is fast enough to earn me kills with pistols fairly easy. I remember on Interchange TDM I was pushing hard into their spawn on the concrete corridor far to the side (no cars, no street) that leads to the back lot where players spawn (not by the truck near C).

       

      I was trying to kill the 3 players that were coming down that corrider with zero cover but I shot through my MP5 click and switched to my Suppressed P99, come out the corner, ADS and let my trigger finger go to work.

       

      Bam Triple Kill with a pistol. Pistols + Akimbo work up close, but they are not as tactical as a Suppressed Pistol and therefore fall back into the same category as all Akimbo Weapons... spray-n-pray.

       

      We are discussing Rapid Fire... please stay on topic.

      Your vote?

      Yay or nay?

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty
    McZOMBI

    Rapid Fire (or Double Tap) has been in every game since COD4 so I'm just kind of used to it now. However, they really should look to balance the percentage boost to ROF across the different SMGs.

     

    They've tried to do it in MW3 but made an arse of it, MP5 gets a 23.3% boost while the PP90M1 gets a 32.1% boost. Doesn't make any sense considering they must've known certain weapons would be OP with Rapid Fire, they gave the MP7 only gets a reasonable 11% boost.

     

    So yeah, I say keep Rapid Fire but make it so that all SMGs get the same ROF while using it. Meaning that it would make average guns good but not make good guns unstoppable.

    • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty
      LuRcHED

      I agree with you. I saw Tmartn video explaining the % of increase on ROF. All SMG's should have the same increase % of ROF when rapid fire is used.

      • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty
        McZOMBI

        That's not what I'm saying. I guess I'm saying ROF should be capped when using RF, making it more of an advantage on weaker weapons. Basically the same as MW3 but spend more time balancing the percentages.

    • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      You are completely right... I forgot about Double Tap on CoD 4 so it does count as Rapid Fire (my apologies).

       

      But still... Double Tap came at the disadvantage of not having Stopping Power or Sleight of Hand.

       

      Yes rapid fire is a good idea for certain guns, but it should be balanced out to make it lose something really important in any players arsenal.

       

      So they have to make a huge choice.

       

      Rapid Fire vs Sleight of Hand, 2 Attachments or UAV Block

       

      Something that hurts the player running Rapid Fire for giving such a huge boost to his weapons overall rating and firepower. Right now if players had to choose between the following.

       

      PP90M1 Rapid Fire + Sleight of Hand (no Silencer, no Assassin)

      PP90M1 Rapid Fire + Silencer (no Sleight of Hand, no Assassin)

      PP90M1 Rapid Fire + Assassin (No Silencer, No Sleight of Hand)

       

      The choice would hinder the Rapid Fire user in a couple of ways that would be quite important, and I bet about 95% of good players wouldn't go for rapid fire... they would instead choose Sleight of Hand + Silencer or Assassin + Silencer.

       

      Right now they have this:

       

      PP90M1 Rapid Fire + Silencer + Sleight of Hand + Assassin.

       

      Making them completely overpowering to anyone not running the same set up (or a similar one) and making the game completely skill dependant (which is good) but it narrows the set ups down to the same gun, same perks, same everything.

       

      See the issue?


      With the options previous to how the deal is now... a PP90M1 Rapid Fire will always be on the radar, either by UAV or by shooting.

      So that in turn makes him vulnerable to radar which is up 100% of the game (with exceptions of the best killstreak ever C-UAV).

       

      But right now we have a super powerful gun, with no radar signal, the player can reload fast and even if a UAV is called in he is hidden, turning him into the nastiest surprise you could come across.

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Almost black ops 2 and i still don't understand why people say that the 74u was overpowered because atleast for me it is just a normal gun...

     

    And btw my opinion is that they should remove the rapid fire attachment and just increase the fire rate of every SMG to about a 10-15% but reduce their accuracy.

    • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      Well it was overpowered with rapid fire.

    • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      74u + Rapid Fire was just the same as PP90M1 Rapid Fire.

       

      Equally uncomfortable but the maps weren't so SMG favourable as they are now, so it didn't shine as much as the PP90M1 does now.

       

      You could beat it but it came down to the second honestly... if both players started shooting at the same time. Famas/AUG vs AK74-u, Rapid Fire the 74-u rapid fire won every time.

       

      It really came down to out-speeding the 74u player or you weren't gonna kill him ever.

      • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty
        nintendon't

        Rapid Fire doesn't even work on the PP90M1....

        • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

          lol you can't be serious...

           

          PP90M1 regular is alright to deal with... PP90M1 + Rapid Fire is completely annoying, it fires fast enough to take out a player in no time.

           

          M4A1 can beat a PP90M1 regular if both players shoot at the same time... but M4A1 can't take a PP90M1 Rapid Fire head on

          • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty
            nintendon't

            It has no effect on the Wii version. Rapid fire doesn't work on guns with an RPM of 1000+. It's all in your head lol.

            • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

              You might say that... but the effect is there.

               

              Pack a PP90M1 without rapid fire and empty the clip (take the time with a stop watch)

              and then do the same with Rapid Fire.. you'll notice a drop in the time.

               

              Coincidence? I think NOT!!

              • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

                I used a stopwatch to test the Fire rates in a private match a few months ago. The PP90M1 empties its 36-round magazine in around 2.4s, regardless of wether it has Rapid Fire or not, giving it an unchanged fire rate of 900RPM. In fact, almost every automatic gun in the Wii version of MW3 has one of 2 fire rates.

                 

                600RPM:

                All automatic AR's (minus FAD)

                M16A4 burst

                All LMG's

                PKP Pecheneg (RF)

                M60E4 (RF)

                MP5

                UMP45

                P90

                Skorpion

                 

                900RPM:

                FAD

                M16A4 burst (RF)

                Type 95 burst (Base & RF)

                MP5 (RF)

                P90 (RF)

                PP90M1 (Base & RF)

                PM-9 (Base & RF)

                MP7 (RF)

                L86 LSW (RF)

                MG36 (RF)

                MK46 (RF)

                FMG9

                MP9

                G18

                 

                Other:

                MP7 - 700RPM

                UMP45 (RF) - 850RPM

                 

                Rapid Fire doe not work on:

                PP90M1

                PM-9

                Type 95

                PKP Pecheneg

                M60E4

                 

                Feel free to test this yourself

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Remember in W@W and MWR when you would have a good attachment on your gun such as noob toob or grip, it would take away your first perk? They should do that with rapid fire, and then people would think twice before using it.

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty
    alexjt22

    I dislike rapid fire because it allows the smgs to become too dominent at short range which they are already pretty dominent at and it also allows them to become dominent at a greater range which creeps into assault rifles dominent range.

     

    You take rapid fire out of the game and shotguns become the best at extremly short range and then you have SMGs being dominent at short range and assault rifle at mid range which is how it should be, while if kept in no matter what balencing unless they add extreme recoil which still wouldnt solve it becoming extremly dominent at extremely close to short ranges.

     

    The biggest problem i have with it is it rewards sprayers more than it should, there is no worse feeling than getting a few shots into someone before they fire a shot only for them to spray a SMG with rapid fire for you to instanta die .

     

    I have hope it will be removed and that the next COD will be better balenced in the gun area because of a quote on twitter from vahn where he mentions rapid fire and other attachments and perks make it impossible to balence and the only true way to balence guns would be to remove theses aspects and have a gun that is great at a few things and no so great at other things which cannot be improved upon with perks or attachments.

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Yes, keep rapid fire.

     

    And to your comment to the first poster, no, FMG9s are not overpowered. They are simply popular.

    • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      USER!!

       

      (hahah reference to Tron... sorry xD, I think I'll call out everyoen with FMG9s as USER!! xD)

       

      And no... I really am not about to discuss FMG9s in this thread, if you start another one, we'll discuss there

      PS: I own FMG9 Akimbo noobs every day... so it no longer bothers me, but it is a gun that excels in every situation even though it shouldn't excel in any situation other than short range, yet it excels in short-mid-long ranges a like.. owning weapons that it shouldn't beat on their terms.

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Rapid Fire should only be avaliable to weapons that go below a certain RPM.This would make it so that you can buff some slow shooters and not have everyone running around with bullet hoses of death (obvious example:PP90M1).

     

    It's a nice touch on LMGs,a weak point of them has always been a slow fire rate,and hightened recoil will only balance it out further.

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Very interesting discussion. I honestly think that the guns in the game should be more realistic of their real life conterparts. Most smg's can be made to have a higher rate of fire. But there are always consequences. These consequences don't seem to make it to the game realistically. It is rediculous that some of the weapons have the range that they do. I mean a pistol shooting across the map, not gonna happen in rl. All I am saying is change some aspects of the game mechanics so that if you do choose to use rapid fire that there are some real consequences. Maybe have the gun jam and have to reload occasionally, increase the recoil (although in real life some weapons seem to smooth out when the cyclic rate is increased). Some of this hip firing stuff is almost rediculous. Most weapons if shot from the hip would react way different than the game mechanics show.Plus some weapons just can't be made to shoot faster, or there is a tipping point that isn't realistically shown in game. From what I heard the newest COD will have a different perk structure so that might help as well. Personally I don't see a problem with some one running assasin and a silenced weapon, and see no reason to make changes. Some form of assassin has been in the game since MWR.

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty
    Rythmmastr

    I had a feeling this was going to be one of those "(random feature/attachment) ruined COD" threads

    • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      And was it?

    • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      I'm not saying it ruined CoD, all I'm saying it's a feature that was ok early, but is now turning into a completely retarded feature.

       

      Seriously... in CoD 4 you had to chose between Double Tap, UAV Jam, Sleight of Hand or Stopping Power.

       

      You see? That was a tough choice and mostly everyone would go for Stopping Power over Double Tap.

       

      But now it turned into... well people use Rapid Fire and they like it, so let's make it really easy for em and punish anyone that doesn't use it. Because it's really easy to use Rapid Fire and it has absolutely no drawbacks.

       

      All I'm saying is... they should re-think Rapid Fire and add a proper drawback to Rapid Fire.

       

      This is true because weapons that use Rapid Fire have been nerfed since Black Ops (74-u) and now it is evident the PP90M1 needs a nerf to help with its overpowering gameplay with Rapid Fire.

      • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty
        Rythmmastr

        I think the entire system needs to be overhauled for Black Ops 2

        • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

          Not entirely, some features are pretty damn good if they think well about it.

           

          ie - Perks

          The perk system is pretty good but some perks are poorly designed, which in turn makes them usless in comparison to others.

          There really is no point in using any other perk besides Stalker on the third slot, with stalkers you can bypass any explosive making Recon useless. See what I mean?

           

          Rapid Fire is now the most noob friendly attachment and it comes at absolutely no backdraw. This is what I propose... redesign Rapid Fire so that it has a backdraw like it had on CoD4.

          • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

            I like where you're going with this. Make some of the other perks more valuable and even things out. It would be nice to see some perk combos actually working together to create an "extra" perk. Say taking some of the under used perks and when put together get a bonus result. I have an idea to balance out rapid fire. Just make clip sizes smaller. This in and of itself would do wonders. Instead of a gun like the p90 shooting forever with rapid fire and extended mags put together.

          • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

            Stalker Pro makes placed explosives useless, not Recon. Only inexperienced players level up Recon with claymores and bouncing betties and not utilzing their equipment to the fullest. Recon, in its base and pro form, is not a useless perk, as it gives us our only real counter against Assassin users.

             

            Perhaps a possible change to Rapid Fire would be to add an increase to hipfire spread along with higher recoil on weapons using Rapid Fire. It won't do much up close, but when you look at verstaile weapons like the PP90M1, it would put a damper in short-medium to medium range spray'n'pray effectiveness. Increased recoil doesn't put a dent in when using Kick, especially when a quick burst is all you need to get kills. Perhaps increased hipfire spread could make a difference, even if only slightly.

             

            Honestly, I believe it will come down to a few small fixes instead of one big fix to Rapid Fire, should it be reworked.

            • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

              Yeah I made a mistake I was comparing Stalker Pro vs Sit Rep (both of which are Yellow Perks).

               

              I was stating the fact that Stalker Pro makes every other yellow perk useless... and therefore the only real perk you should use is Stalker Pro.

               

              Recon is a Blue perk and has nothing to do with Stalker or Sit Rep.

  • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty
    Wozny

    I hate Rapid Fire in General and have it baned in my clan Except on the M16A4. On BO NO RF AT ALL. It needs to be like CoD4 where it replaced a Perk slot. But the bad part is some hackers would hack the perk right back in. I say Take RF out as well as akimbo on machine pistols.

    • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      @wonzy, banning a feature built into the game. Makes no sense to me. I guess if you have a clan of one, or a bunch of piss boys with no back bones that might work.

       

      @azhood, I think your idea of larger spread when hip firing will likely backfire making the weapon even more OP. The reason i think  this is that the mp40 in WAW had the largest hip fire spread of the smgs and it was beast with double tap. It will bring back hip firing  and make ADS go away.

       

      I honestly think, once again, the only way to balance rapid fire is to make the clip sizes smaller. 

      • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

        Yup... clans that ban certain features are completely full of hot air and their egos are completely boosted.

         

        The first one that comes to mind is Zodiac Slayers (hahaha) they banned like 8 guns and attachments out of the game, not to mention I've seen clans completely ban killstreaks.

         

        If you have balls and skill... you can deal with any aspect of the game.

         

        +1

        • Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty
          Convict7

          I don't see a problem about "banning" certain attachments or weapons. At least your clan won't get the reputation of another typical group tryhards, but this usually ends up to a drama and other BS inside the clan so, it isn't too good idea at the end.

           

          Then again the idea is rather silly, I use OP guns every once in a while because even though I hate akimbo MPs etc. it is still part of my playing style, I run out of ammo, I want to handle any weapon I can find from the ground.