If you saw on my video I actually get a knife hitmarker because of the invulnerability period. So lets recap the scenario he takes a full shotgun blast with damage (336 damage) plus a knife melee (300 damage I think) So this guy survives a grand total of 636 damage and kills me by knifing my ankle. I am near speechless.
Then of course there is the shotgun hitmarker. Nothing new. This goes to show though that a stat change is needed for shotguns to ever get any form of consistency. The rest of my guns perform just fine. Only shotguns suffer this bs. And again after the testing I did the one shot kill range on the spas and 1887 will not be extended by even an inch with my proposals. The ksg will likely have .65 meters added to its reliable one shot kill range with the range proficiency, but considering its one shot kill range is already lower than the others it helps balance them more.
I get what your team was trying to do with shotguns (making them weak so people complain less) but they took it way too far. Lets look at this game by game.
Cod 2 the only shotgun is the trench gun. It is a 2 pellet kill up close. (primary weapon)
Cod 3 the only shotgun is the trench gun again and it is a 2 pellet kill up close.(primary weapon)
MW1 we have 2 shotguns the pump action is the w1200 and is capable of a 2 pellet kill up close with stopping power.(primary weapon)
World at war we also have 2 shotguns the double barrel is capable of a 2 pellet kill up close and no one used the trench gun because it lacks this ability (primary weapon)
MW2 the spas, rangers, and m1014 are all capable of 2 pellet kills (or less rangers 75 damage ftw).(secondary weapons)
Black ops the 2 slow firing shotguns are the olympia and stakeout neither of which can do a 2 pellet kill. Black ops shotguns are by far the least used weapon class in game. Even the lossless silencer of the spas does not save this class. (primary weapons)
MW3 pumps are a 4 pellet kill standard with the ability to be a 3 pellet kill once leveled. (primary weapons)
You can see there was a clear reaction to mw2 shotguns. Shotguns as primary weapons have always had close range reliability built into the slowest firing of these weapons except for black ops. This is because of all the complaints about shotgun secondaries in mw2. If mw2 shotguns are kept as primaries I would be using shotguns that are very similar if not better to the ones I have proposed in the original post of this thread.
We know from the very low performance numbers that the shotguns are not properly balanced. Then mix in the frequent inconsistent performance (bad hitmarkers) and you get a class that is in desperate need of attention. I have outlined to you previously how the community has never been against high close range damage. The community has only ever had negative reactions to really high long range capability and spamability. The proposals in the op of this thread will properly balance the shotguns, eliminate a majority of their inconsistencies, and when applied to the testing I have done they will not increase the one shot kill range of the spas or 1887 at all. The only pump to have its reliable one shot kill range extended by my proposal is the ksg. The ksg will only have a .65 meter improvement in reliable one shot kill range. Considering the fact that the ksg already has a significantly lower one shot kill range than the spas and 1887 it was in need of a small performance buff anyway.
Ghandi what I really want is reasons why your team thinks our proposals will unbalance shotguns. And why do they think shotguns are currently balanced when their performance numbers are so low and they are plagued by such blatant performance problems?
The mistakes made in mw2 are not our mistakes. But we are the ones being punished for them. Shotguns in their current state are unacceptable, and the idea that your team is fine with their performance is a quite a shock to the shotgun community. Please look at our proposals and start to work with the shotgun community. This is unacceptable.
I got the model to damage in less than 3 hours playing HC dom, thank you vims for showing how easy it kills there. A lot of fun with range in that game mod as you get some insane ohks all over the place, but it does defeat the purpose as switching to the mp9, made me see how easy everything else ohks as well with over 700 fire rates at least, but spamming ballistic vest & using a shotgun in hc, can be a lot of fun, as you just know every shot is actually going to kill people at a decent to good range.
I then played one game of core dom with the model & damage and got a lot of strange hitmarkers cqb, still topped the lobby, but no real point in using the model against someone very good who doesn't give you the time to shoot another shot. I concur your damage buffs, 2 pellet kills cqb is needed with damage on to get rid of the inconstancy of the model and spas cqb. 3 Pellet kills without damage would make range a better option as well and make them easier to rank up, no other gun section is as frustrating to rank up as shotties.
I'm cool with most of them w/ damage, once they have damage they're fairly usable, just slightly weaker than their MW2 counterparts without stopping power. The problem is the grind to get to damage. Also the AA-12 is just terrible, leveled it all the way to damage and it definitely was not worth it.
The spas is better in mw2 (2 pellet kill with SP and great range potential), model too do to the akimbo ability it has in that game. AA-12 was a nightmare to vs in mw2, I feel they should give it the extended mags pellets back too, it was a great gun with range back then in mw3. I would agree that they are usable, but I want them to be Good / constant, especially the pumps and model as they shoot so slow. We all get retarded hitmarkers while aiming centre mass with their current damage stats. They should either buff the damage or give them more pellets too (at least 9 too to the model, spas and aa-12).
They were a better gun class with the extended mags pellets overall, model the same and usas-12 and ksg-12 easier to rank up but overall the same with the extended mags pellets. I do feel just a good ads accuracy increase (spread of 4 adsed) would help in local lobbies, I would also switch to stalker pro then on shotgun classes & ads constantly, no we are forced to use steady aim, which would still be a good perk if adsing was constant, for the faster aim after sprint and accurate insta-kill ability.
Yeah, spas has pretty beast moments. A small buff cqb, is all I would like to see.
Brick can't post for the next week or so. He got a one week ban from fox for posting links in the title update thread, he will resume regular posting after it is lifted though.
He also said giving the spas and model an extra pellet will do very little for their consistency. "as the ksg's extra pellet does next to nothing in terms of close range reliability. I has have got multiple films of bad ksg hitmarkers and I don't use the ksg even 1/5th as often as the spas and model. The extra pellet is a placebo for the most part. You need to trust me on that"
Either way I want to see the spas and the model at least on par with what the ksg and usas-12 cqb need to get a killl atm, 3/9 of their pellets, his damage buff obviously being better buff overall.
IMO i don't think shotguns will ever be buffed in MW3 to a level where they acttually do the job there surposed to and the reason why i think this is because IW panders far to much to quickscopers and they don't want them crying constantly about there favorite play style being destroyed by shotty users and lets be honest if shotguns DID work like they used/surposed to they WOULD destroy your average quickscoper in CQB.