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  • 200. Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Discussion

    maccabi wrote:

     


    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

     

     

     

    So to summarize on lots of points we agree, particularly in the area of each of us wanting to improve match making and latency impact. On others we don't, such as the decision that I made regarding the turning off of Ricochet for many reasons that have nothing to do with whether Ricochet is the preferred choice of either the majority or minority hardcore player base.

     

     

    You know I'm in total agreement with you on the changes you making to "lag comp" to use the prefered community term. Mostly as most of them are what I suggested or highlighted months ago . I just like most people have an issue that it's taken you this long to actually address them. As i said a few weeks week I know how huge a task going back through all the code was but the question still remains we all basically knew where the issues were why was no one tasked to look at the code before. whatever way you look at it as far as myself and the community see things its taken 8 months odd to start to address a major launch day issue.

     

    As for Ricochet and I will address this point as a generalisation of other issues the community has voiced as well.. this is our main problem with the dev team and especially (with respect) yourself. Granted we aren't privy to internal discussions nor would we expect to be, but your stock answer is and always has been "we don't think it's an issue" , or "we don't agree due to your vision of the game" . It's rather akin to a parent turning around to thier child and using the "because I said so" answer.

     

    A very good example of this is the ingame music..Your reply to the community was "we feel it adds to the experience" a combined voice from the community said "it detracts from the experience and actually in some game modes s&d for example ruins the enjoyment and experience".

     

    The same can be said for Ricochet, I'm not saying the addition of it is right or wrong as Im not naive enough to know there is both postives and negatives to adding it, having read alot of the discussions the hc community has had over it. But the fact does remain by adding it you have ruined the whole ethos of HC and changed it from a team based game to basically a lone wolf game, (an arguement I know Candice has put forward alot more eloquently than I have here). It also added alot of game ruining issues that ever since you knee jerked Ricochet in have not been addressed. Basically you ruined hardcore for the alot of hc players. You have never actually given the reasons for refusing to even discuss the change or even entered into a discussion with the hc community as to a workable compromise .

    In fact the nearest we have gotten was Candice suggesting that if the mp team (or rather now as it appears you) won't swap back would the hc community be happy if the issues ricochet added were actually fixed. So i'll say the same thing to you as I said to here, yes it would make a difference but it without going into the whole wasted manhours needed to recode stuff (not least of all that any patch would be a good few months away) so we dont get flashed, can destroy our own equipment and others on our team ect ect it still wouldn't address the fact the entire ethos of HC changes with ricochet or the fact that the reason you added it (player griefing) is still and does still happen as people will walk in front of your fire .

     

    I suggested this to Candice and will say it here publicaly now, assuming we are getting face off (the lack of being another huge slap in the face of the hc community) how about making it ricochet free? , face off by its very nature means theres more chances of teams being made up of friends so the reason you added ricochet has basically been nullified. Or change one mode back either tdm or kc for a week and gauge the communitys reaction and feedback.Or actually ask us?

     

     

     

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

     

     

     

    I feel at times we tend to forget all the changes that have been made for the good through our dialogue and dwell on those that we haven't agreed upon. This is probably unavoidable.

     

     

     

    Which is another point worth mentioning you on one hand use the excuse this forum doesn't represnt the community. Yet when it suits you guys you use this forum and especially the feedback gotten in these threads and cite how we said something and you changed it.,and to be honest out of all the issues we have discussed from day one the only thing you actually changed finally (after months of saying "we arent changing it") was the blast range of DHM.

     

    Yes there are things that both sides wont agree on but I think the community would respect IW alot more if in these situations you actually explained why you don't agree as "we dont think its an issue " or " we dont agree" doesnt really cut it as a reason. Again using ricochet for example you haven't said why you nixed it.

     

     

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

     

     

     

    As developers we are privy to information that this community is not. Surely on that we can agree. Sometimes this influences our decision not to do something that is requested. Other times we don't agree with recommendations that are made or we are focused on matters we deem of higher priority at that juncture. On other occasions change requests are outside of the scope of what we can contemplate for MW3 and they are put on a pin board for contemplation in the future.

     

    Yep totally agree, and again yep agree alot of the suggestions the community have suggested are basically unfeasible without a large amount of recoding. But then there are other suggestions that dont involve this and you guys need to realise the regualr contributers in this thread aren't making these suggestions for their own interests they are looking at the game as a whole and know the suggestions they have made are for the betterment of the game as a whole.As as much as you throw the we designed it card it's us who play hours upon hours a day and know how these design decisions you have made adversely affect the game enjoyment and experience.

     

     

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

     

     

     

    I have already admitted that we at IW need to get our ducks in a row so that announcements are not made, even to individuals, that have not been vetted and approved by all necessary parties.

     

    We shall improve at this. I'm sure this community values your participation as much as I do. If you've checked out then you'll be missed. Please know we'll be working to improve matters both with the game and communication wise in your absence.

     

    Respectfully,

     

    G IH A IN ID II

     

    Yes the "ducks" are out of sync but my issue isnt so much the contradictory infomation comming from the ducks its that the ducks arent announcing stuff when they should and need too. Whatever way you look at it , it shouldn't be someone such as myself or another community member who first posts certain stuff (for my part my posts are usualy as i've sat there for a while thinking yep..any minute now theres going to be an official announcement/post ..any minute oh sod it i'll do it.). to give some perspective.. it took IW three days after my post to warn people about the deranking lobbies , and the last dlc as i said there wasn't any offical warning about peoples spec ops ranks or the memory issues for days apart teanah thanking me for updating the community. That is not good enough both of these issues were really serious especially the dlc one . Using my arrogant head again thatsat least twice I've basically saved you guys from a large community backlash through your being silent.

     

    I would also disagree with the point about giving single individuals infomation first if that infomation is then broadcast to the community as a whole, again i'll use the hcctf "oops" , Candice tweeted what happened or rather hadnt happened;) to me and I relayed this infomation to the hc community on twitter and various other social media outlets as well as making a post on the forum. Yes she could've just quickly posted on the forum herself but the result was the same as the community knows (as im sure you are more than aware i've been having alot of chats with Candice about Hc and other aspects of the game) so knew the infomation i was relaying was accruate. Basically you guys have a vast network of respected (or not so respected in my case) community members who for whatever reasons do have access to Iw staff in ways the rest of the community dont (the iw enforcers for example being another good example) .. you should look to use this resource more imo. Look at the number of the cod fan sites that each week go through all marks tweets to one person and post them for all to read.. this is one area you really need to utilise the cod communities ability to spread infomation however banal .

     

    I've said it before but it's great you have mark getting addicted to twitter and teanah and candice interacting with the community and I hope this level of interaction continues. I'll be honest imo this is more to do with the fact you guys have started gearing up or got green lighted on the next game than a desire to address this game.

     

     

    Something else I mentioned before from one of your more sarcastic comments was the idea of a community council i still think this would be a beneficial addition to the cod franchise as a whole and to be honest no different from the focus groups you guys utilise in development, You only have to look at the discussions the community members have had between themselves on here to see they are making points and arguements based on the overal gameplay and expereince not just their own personal views for the most part.

     

    With respect and not intentionally throwing the "other dev team" card out but look at treyarch how many times in the last few months has vahn or one of the other devs asked the community their views on a design feature or aspect of their game.. how many times did they do the same during blops life cycle.. now look at IW past two recent confusing "polls" on the forum (which again you have always maintained isnt the " voice" of the community" )

    you guys havent asked our opinion on anything you get opinions but thats because we have to instigate any discussion and then spend months of you banging our heads against our desks..

     

    and that is my last comments on this stuff, i'll still be around lurking but really have come to the conclusion discussing anything is basically a waste of time and an exercise in futility. Lets be honest by the time you guys have finished faffing with title updates for lag comp and actually getting round to addressing inherent issues in the game we're looking at what end of july mid august before theres any real change in game and as im sure you know by that time the focus of the community is going to be completely elsewhere .

     

    Oh and as im getting all out there .. i know you guys wont discuss actual numbers or sales data (we'll just wait for the next earnings report like always) but the xbl sale of dlc next week , and yes i know this is a Actvi bean counter decision has really pissed off the community , its obvious dlc sales have been low,and the problems the dlc playlists are not helping but did noone stop and think .. you know what everyone who bought elite as we told them dlc was cheaper.. or pruchase a content drop is going to feel really cheated. there has NEVER been a dlc sale of a current cod game (especially less than a month after the dlc came out).. the fact there is whether rightly or wrongly has spoken volumes to the communities view of sales, the game in general and Actvi's attitude to us.

     

    cod is a billion dollor franchise because the fans trusted the devs to make games they would enjoy, that trust has been severely damaged with mw3 and especially elite hence why treyarch are falling over themselves to address alot of issues and correct mistakes and bad design decisions added in mw3. I'm not saying blackops is going to be the rainbows and unicorns solution as noone is ever going to be 100% happy, but the community can see treyarch interact and discuss with them and with you guys not so much. 

    Single individuals I encourage to continue to have one on one conversations with members of the community team. You and I have done this in the past and your messages have always been for the good of the game. However, these individual comments and conversations should not be comsidered gospel until they have been approved and announced. We'll make sure we are in sync in order to avoid the confusion going forward.

     

    Cheers,

     

    G IH A IN ID II

  • 201. Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Discussion
    Snipingdbag

    The model statement by the weapon balance team is hilarious as the model gets hitmarkers frequently, regardless of good aimed center mass shots, maybe the devs team can fix that problem first cqb, before making such aggravating statements. No wonder that IW clan doesn’t have 1000 model kills together right bar for 2 members out of what 50? I’m talking about how the gun works in good relatively local lobbies on cqb oriented maps, it’s completely pointless otherwise. Much like all shotguns bar for the striker and maybe the usas-12

  • 202. Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Discussion

    rankismet wrote:

     

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

     

    ILikeLaglessGames wrote:

     

    I don't understand how unique users is in any way proprietary information when you seem to constantly bring up player count as an indication of how much people enjoy the game.

    I have no option in this regard. It's the law. As a representative of Activision according to the rules of the SEC I am not allowed to convey any material information that is not in the public domain since this would be considered insider information. The other figures I mention have been released by Activision or are attainable from other public sources.

     

    Cheers,

     

    G IH A IN ID II

     

    Throwing out the SEC... seriously.

     

    I'm more than passingly familiar with the SEC and SOX compliance and stating how many unique players have played MW3 is no where near material information... when it's been stated publicly by your company's officers.

     

    If you want to state it's proprietary and a competitive advantage you wish to not divulge to your competitors. Cool.

     

    But that statement goes to the heart of people's distrust of what IW says and does.

     

    pulling69 wrote:

     

    ILikeLaglessGames wrote:

     

    It does makes your answer clear.  Can I ask how many unique people have played MW3 in the past two months?  I'm curious.

    I would be more interested to know how that number compares to say the first 2 months and the middle 2 months, and how that dropoff compares to other titles in the COD history.

    Here is the question I was asked. I and all other employees are not allowed to answer questions such as these under SEC regulations.

     

    Cheers,

     

    G IH A IN ID II

  • 203. Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Discussion

    maccabi wrote:

     

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

     

     

     

    To make the point, I'll go further into some of the reasoning for not removing Ricochet. Firstly, when we didn't have it in we were deluged by complaints from people getting team killed. These far outweighed the complaints of those opposed to Ricochet.

    Really can you point me to the post on the forum where you announced you were adding ricochet as i and the entire hac community seemed to have missed it, obviously it was there as you said the complaints of those wanting ricochet outwieghed those who didnt..   That is the biggest crock ever of course there wasnt complaint THEN we didnt know you were adding ricochet, but then as usual you equipped selective reading perk and ignored 8 months of complaints about ricochet being added.

     

     

     

     

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

    . Onlymyhe other day there was a post which thanked us for doing this because people were team killing to get care packages.

     

     

    congratulations you unlocked selective reading pro.. im assuming your refering to the post made on this thread (which is one of many complaing about ricochet and the state of hc) http://community.callofduty.com/thread/200441419?start=0&tstart=0 guess in your desire to find one post saying thanks for adding ricochet you ignored the rest slating it right? Apart from that thread a quick search for ricochet brings up loads more.Far more than there ever was complaining about tking.

     

    Heres a interesting search..just type "remove ricochet" into the search filed..

    http://community.callofduty.com/search.jspa?resultTypes=&dateRange=last90days&pe opleEnabled=true&q=remove+ricochet&containerType=14&container=2016&containerNam e =Forums&username=&rankBy=relevance&newq=remove+ricochet*&numResults=30

     

    now type "add ricochet" or a variation thereof..

    http://community.callofduty.com/search.jspa?start=30&q=add%20ricochet&peopleEnab led=true&containerType=14&container=2016&dateRange=last90days&numResults=30&ran k By=relevance

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

     

     

    Secondly, we have made many changes which have countered some of the complaints those who prefer non ricochet HC modes raised. These would need to be removed potentially or QA'd once more in the event of a change.

     

    Really? name one.. go on you haven't added a single change. Since you added ricochet apart from the fact you destroyed the entire ethos of the gamemode which to me is still the biggest negative of ricochet, There's only been four issues that we have constantly complained about, teammates destroying our own equipment (not fixed) , being dazed by our own tactical nades (not fixed), randomly dying when a car explodes you shot earlier in the game or spawning and instantly dying due to a dropped nade as you died(not fixed) griefing as players can now block you in doors/corners or get you killed by happily walking into your line of fire or purposedly shotting your claymores ect. (not fixed)

     

     

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

     

     

     

    We do not believe the griefing that occurs in HC modes now is as rife with Ricochet as without. There was a suggestion at some point to provide two HC TDM options one with and one without Ricochet, as I said even internally we debate issues. Unfortunately, this would split an already small playing population between two playlists and create more fragmentation, which would lead to worse match making at a time we are trying to solve this issue and lead to the cutting of another HC playlist since we have too many already.

     

    yesa it would cause a small minorty of hc players to be alone while the majority went to the non ricochet mode.. fine you dont want too split the playlists easy solution ASK the HC to vote on one existing mode they would like swapped back to non ricochet.heck you could even do it weekly.. as you do for face off ..you know face off the game mode hc players cant enjoy at all.. problem solved there isnt an additional fracture of the playlists then is there. We will await whatever excuse you come up with next to veto this simple solution too.

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

     

     

     

    The arrival of HC CTF was postponed because it hasn't had the requisite amount of test time as a mode. It'll arrive when it has. As people have pointed out we have made mistakes with some of our TUs. This comes because we are trying to squeeze fixes into a TU schedule that is already monthly because of Elite drops.

    Know what treyarch did when they needed to test new game modes.. got us to organise it feel free to ask Vahn how profesionally and seriously we took testing  . You might be surpised by the answer.

     

    There are so many simple solutions to the issue of ricochet that dont involve having to recode and waste manhours.

    Ricochet is and was the worst solution to team killing as all you did was slightly stop griefing at the expense of everyones enjoyment and added a heap of other issues. but lets be honest thats basically iws MO add something that breaks something else.

     

    There are some really easily implementable ideas and solutions on some of those threads to remove ricochet and not have the issue of tking, heck some dont even invovle the need for any recoding as you already have the code in place..  even good old TSD has suggested some ...

     

    But you win ,fed up clashing heads with you now over this , now you took the time to explain your reasoning its obvious your so out of touch with the hc community that any discussion we never had the oppotunity to have was doomed to fail.

     

    The FFOTD changes that were made I think included sentry guns not team killing in HC; players not being able to trip friendly claymores and I'm not sure if it has gone live yet but the work has been done, a change to the trophy system which prevents explosions killing nearby team mates. I'll double check that these went in though since this is just from memory.

     

    We didn't announce the move to Ricochet on the forums I believe. I don't think anyone was active on the forums at that juncture. I do, however, recall us needing to react to an overwhelming desire to stop the team killing that was rife and being complained about. That's why we introduced Ricochet and complaints went way down.

     

    I'm delighted to hear that you and Vahn have such a good relationship. I will follow up with David as you suggest.

     

    Maccabi if you wish to discuss HC issues I would please encourage you to continue to do so. Solutions and suggestions to combat the inherent griefing problem friendly fire presents such as a three team kill kick option, tracking known team kill griefers, spawn invulnerability or whatever the HC community suggest, whilst outside of the scope of what we can consider for MW3 are valuable for the future.

     

    Cheers,

     

    G IH A IN ID II

  • 204. Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Discussion
    maccabi

    Snipingdbag wrote:

     

    The model statement by the weapon balance team is hilarious as the model gets hitmarkers frequently, regardless of good aimed center mass shots, maybe the devs team can fix that problem first cqb, before making such aggravating statements. No wonder that IW clan doesn’t have 1000 model kills together right bar for 2 members out of what 50? I’m talking about how the gun works in good relatively local lobbies on cqb oriented maps, it’s completely pointless otherwise. Much like all shotguns bar for the striker and maybe the usas-12

    True story.

     

    A few weeks back after reading all the comments about the models I decided to try them out so I could comment with an educated opinion. I'll be honest i set out to prove they were useless.. But after using them for two prestiges after reaching level30 the first time when i prestiged i actually used a token to unlock them early as..i really enjoyed using the models. Free feel to look on elite xmaccabix on xbox  apart from the odd game for the last few weeks i have used the models basically every game

     

     

    Yes they have a few niggles but i agree with the weapons team you need a certain skill set to use them correctly.Yes they have a few "issues" it took me a while to get used to them but once i worked out they are best used when you fire and strafe i have had a blast (pun intended) with them. I get the odd hitmarker when im right next to someone but a any balancing issues and hitmarkers whilst the connections are screwy should be given a level of doub atm. as it stands my accuracy on models is the highest out of any gun ive used in mw3 standing at 65%

     

    The only thing i personaly would do to adjust the models is remove the pointless attachments prof as there isn't any and drop the remaining profs down in level making it slightly easier to get range (for hc) or damage (for core), and maybe just increase movement speed slightly as you really need the ability to get up close and personal fast or be able to fire and move whilst you reload.

     

    theres too any guns in this game where just keeping your trigger finger going is all the skill you need , the models for me give me the same sense of enjoyment as using the f2000 did in mw2 (which btw was the only gun i got gold skulls on).

     

    I will add though other night i was standing over someone who was prone and shot them and got awarded a longshot for it ..

  • 205. Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Discussion

    Macc, the same skill that is needed to make the model effective would make almost any other gun super effective. Being skilled with the model doesn't change the fact that it is a bad weapon. It needs to be 40-20.

  • 206. Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Discussion
    rankismet

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

    Here is the question I was asked. I and all other employees are not allowed to answer questions such as these under SEC regulations.

     

    Cheers,

     

    G IH A IN ID II

     

    That's your story and you're sticking it to it.

     

    Take care... off to other things.

     

  • 207. Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Discussion

    ok but if you move it to dead silence it doesn't affect what you are still trying to achieve, you just dont have all of these amazing "perks" combined into one super perk. which is the point im trying to make. assassin is the single strongest perk in the entire cod series thus far.

  • 208. Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Discussion
    rankismet

    rankismet wrote:

     

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

    Here is the question I was asked. I and all other employees are not allowed to answer questions such as these under SEC regulations.

     

    Cheers,

     

    G IH A IN ID II

     

    That's your story and you're sticking it to it.

     

    Take care... off to other things.

     

     

    Screw it... I'll reply to myself.

     

    This is from your Q1 FY13 summary as of May 2012.

     

    -->Click<--

     

    You'll note the highlight of 40 million MAU.

     

    Your bosses don't want you talking about it. Cool.

     

    Just say that.

     

    The SEC comment is very, very disengenous. It's why many folks have so little faith in comments, process, and follow thorugh with this title.

     

     

     

    Now... I'm really off to other things.

     

  • 209. Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Discussion
    maccabi

     

    G IH A IN ID II wrote:

     

     

    The FFOTD changes that were made I think included sentry guns not team killing in HC; players not being able to trip friendly claymores and I'm not sure if it has gone live yet but the work has been done, a change to the trophy system which prevents explosions killing nearby team mates. I'll double check that these went in though since this is just from memory.

     

    We didn't announce the move to Ricochet on the forums I believe. I don't think anyone was active on the forums at that juncture. I do, however, recall us needing to react to an overwhelming desire to stop the team killing that was rife and being complained about. That's why we introduced Ricochet and complaints went way down.

     

    I'm delighted to hear that you and Vahn have such a good relationship. I will follow up with David as you suggest.

     

    Maccabi if you wish to discuss HC issues I would please encourage you to continue to do so. Solutions and suggestions to combat the inherent griefing problem friendly fire presents such as a three team kill kick option, tracking known team kill griefers, spawn invulnerability or whatever the HC community suggest, whilst outside of the scope of what we can consider for MW3 are valuable for the future.

     

    Cheers,

     

    G IH A IN ID II

    So you're quite happy to get people to waste valuable time coding in fixes to address the issues presented by adding ricochet ...why not just task them to write a 3 tk and boot rule instead and save manhours and un needed work i mean its not like theres not countless other things that need fixing (which is why hc fixes get booted down your to do list anyways).

     

    But again the point you are missing is it doesnt matter if you address all those issues and lets be honest we're talking months before you do it wont change the fact ricochet changes the ethos and feel of hardcore into a non team orientated game mode into something where you can be a rambo like lone player not having to worry about your own actions and again you know this arguement as its one Candice put forward alot more eloquently.

     

    But suggestions well you already have a spawn delay if you team kill in place in the game why cant you just utlise that again but change the times so it goes i dont know 15 sec , 30 sec and finally 90 secs. Its an easy change to make and would take 5 mins to change three numbers. It would be the same as basically having a 3 tk and boot rule and chances are someone intentionally griefing would back out the lobby instead of twiddling their thumbs for 90 secs.

     

    and ill say it again why cant you just swap a mode a week to non ricochet , and please dont give me the line you made changes that might not work .. i've been in games development, no one in their right mind would make changes and not keep the original code incase you need to rollback.

     

    and please do ask vahn about mhcgm im sure he'll gladly tell you how we handled testing with him and how seriously we took it.

     

    here ya go http://community.callofduty.com/message/105348374   this is how you discuss things with the community

     

    and heres a summary made by one of the ps3 members of mhcgm which adds alot of vahns replies.

     

    http://forums.activision.com/thread/100518495?start=0&tstart=0

     

    ill be the first to admit bombs and flags ended up badly as neither us nor treyarch estimated the blacklash from people who werent aware what was happening , but the fact remains and getting back to your sarcastically made cod council comment theres already a proven model of a community made group working with devs for the betterment of the game.

     

    The hard core community is around 20% usually in a cod game (probably less in mw3 as alot quit when you added ricochet but anyways..) we have never asked for special treatment nor expected equality in the amount of playlist we get , all we have ever asked for is an open discussion with yourselves and let US decide within the limitations placed on on the playlists.

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