42 Replies Latest reply: Jul 5, 2012 11:13 AM by BanHaMMer RSS

Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense

Izjar11

COD,

 

Happy 4th,

 

This is a topic on the defensive player  vs the attacker / pushing forward player.

 

Just finished three games of TDM and I encountered three very good defensive style players, the type of player that moves little and gets many kills as people are literally "fed" trying to get that revenge kill.

 

I realized quickly these aren't the typical defensive player, they have each others backs facing opposite directions. Well I felt frustrated to say the least, I was running my "anti defensive" load out, recon, assassin and stalker. With CM901 with tubes, semtex and flash, purpose is to light these guys up like Christmas lights and it works problem is there are multiple lights together! 

 

I played well, and went positive in all encounters but lost all three games, the final lost in resistance was the most frustrating, why? Because's we lost, why? Because my team (I included) got frustrated with how well they were defending themselves and we began to feed into it like a black hole.

 

A good defense can be a very good tactic to frustrate another team, which creates errors. I felt the need to call them names, but the truth is they outplayed me and the random team I was with. What can you really say?

 

My final view is pay attention to this tactic, avoid feeling frustrated, realize what your doing is wrong and you need to change tactics.

 

Good luck COD

 

I appreciate everyones response but try to keep it short please.

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
    ForceHunter1

    That u used tubes says enough. Yet i think defensive players are getting more and more power by just be softies laying in corners. I play really offensive, not running like a moron, but i'll always keep running and adjusting position. Brings me good scores a lot of times... but if all on enemy team are laying in counters camping, you're kind a helpless.... they should do even more against it...

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
    AC_786

    another good daily topic post from you

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense

    Adapting to the situation. You'll be able to turn the game completely around if you make a few changes, just like in sports.

    • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
      Izjar11

      I tried, I moved about using the stairs (Flag A) and the opposite side (flag B) I just could not get past the first few dudes two covering the bottom portion of the house, two more inside two covering the courtyard (Resistance Map).

       

      I was playing with random's but I rarely feel frustration, and I felt it creeping in. 

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
    Work_Hard_Play_Hard

    Yes good topic, I have come across some very defensive teams especially on Resistance and Mission (top RH corner) with snipers and runners covering. 

     

    Although at times frustrating it made me realise 'if u can't beat em join em' thus I now run a sniper class and to be fair quite enjoy the change, using a mp9 as my secondary so I can still move freely around the map, using sniper only when needed.

    • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
      Izjar11

      Frustration in this game leads to loss of game and loss of kills vs deaths. Keeping a cool head is crucial to win, even in a video game.

      • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
        Mecha75

        the problem wasn't that they outplayed you.  No amount of camping can outplay anyone running and gunning in this game.   The problem was the lack of communication and teamwork on your end.  They had the teamwork and a group of average skilled players with teamwork will beat a team full of highly skilled individuals almost every time.  I have played with randoms and we had our butts handed to us.  Even though I earned a 2/1 KDR with 20+ kills (not saying I am good, i have had the opposite happen as well).

        • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
          ForceHunter1

          Campers are getting more and more powerful every year... it's getting really bad now

          • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
            Mecha75

            Use recon and communication.  They are both the best way to handle campers.  The teams I usually run with are great communicators and I will light them up with flash bangs or bullets (if they get me first).  They only survive for a few seconds.  In other words, if you have a good team with good communication then you should easily be able to take out the campers.  They really are not a problem unless you are running with randoms.

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense

    You said it yourself, they were good because they were working in a team, 1 of them could not have pulled it off, you just can't trust randoms, it's better to just avoid team mates all together in TDM and think you are in a free for all but it's harder because they feed kills to the opponents, that is why I don't play solo anymore and don't lose actualy games anymore only when the host dashboards and disconnections.

     

    It's all about being in a party even if you're 2 it will increase your odds greatly

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
    ghamorra

    Whenever I find a group of people who have an area locked down I avoid it and try to get my team to avoid it. They usually break there formation after a few out of shear boredom

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
    rlbl

    No matter how you play, if you work as a team you will usually always win.

     

    (still speaking about teams)

     

    Defensive play always rules over offensive play (although if you are good and have a decent connection, offensive play will net better individual results).

     

    Here in context:


    Defensive play = area control, or map control (e.g. only working half the map) etc... this is very good because the enemy will always be in front of you.

     

    Offensive play = aggression... basically looking for people (not running with your head cut off like a chicken).

     

    Most people hate campers, and even people who play defensively... but I think it is because the average defensive player will be able to react better than the average offensive player (simply because the offensive player is usually running, while the defensive player is typically walking - often crouched - and watching the offensive players running around).

     

    I am not really sure what the community expects... they typically hate having to look for people, but at the same time hate running into other offensive players and getting panic knifed or drop-shotted.  I suppose a good mix of both is desired.

     

    When I play Dom, I am 100% defensive (sometimes to point of blatant camping when it makes sense to do that)

     

    When I play KC (or TDM when I am so inclined) I play offensively (almost to the point of chicken-with-head-cut-ff)

     

    I am not afraid to admit to both...

    • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
      Izjar11

      Thanks for your post rlbl, always very insightful.

       

      What you mentioned is what happened, players running at the well positioned defensive player.

       

      Overall I used my anti defensive load out which revolves around recon pro, lighting up players and getting an idea of their location. Not easy, first part light them up, second kill them all.

      • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
        rlbl

        yea I was in a game the other day (on resistance) and the enemy team was more or less held up in the house and courtyard (no surprise). Most of the people on my team just kept running back and eventually we got bombarded with their fed killstreaks.

         

        I kept shouting: "stop running in! Let them come out!"

         

        But they did not listen and we got seriously destroyed.

         

        One thing I have seen is when both teams are playing way too defensively, and the time runs out (often seen in HC TDM, but I am talking about what happens sometimes in core games as well!)

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
    monkeylord

    Always enjoy a game against good defensive teams although in KC an all out assualt will often flush them out but keeping them from the tags.

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense

    In these situations i tend to hold of fro engaging them where they want you. Yes it's frustrating but if more people held off then i'm sure at some point they would come out and come too you. Perhaps not when they're winning though which makes everything even more annoying  as you start losing more and more.

    • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
      Izjar11

      That's something I didn't mention, the win lose situation. We began most of the matches winning and slowly, they caught up. The match is tied for the next minute or so and then boom they had a large enough lead that just can't be taken back.

       

      And everyone feels more anxious to get the lead.

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense

    I think the best way to play is a mix of the two styles, not sure if you have heard of him but Xcal on youtube calls it aggresive camping, by that he means he is constantly pushing forward but using cover and headglitchs to his advantage, thats how I used to go for leaderboard places on blackops untill they ditched score per min

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
    TMBI

    Good Topic.

     

    If you are playing nearly every evening, you will find those teams quite often!

    This "tactics" is really increasing in MW3. Some just call it "Camping" and "Noob-Gaming" - so I do.

    Finally it needs some skill and discipline of the whole team of "Campers" to stay in their positions when the others

    attack.

    So, yes, it´s a tactics...regretfully.

     

    On the other hand: It´s spoiling the game!

     

    This kind of tactics is made to destroy the games - no matter if it´s TDM or Domination. It´s frustrating, boring and bothering.

    It´s a childish tactics by playing an "action-game" without action...

     

    I don´t mind if some players need to camp to succeed their stats - I just sweep them away - even more on my second attempts ;o)

     

    In Domination this tactics is mostly losing the match - because the offensive players will capture more flags - and they are (if they know what thes do) able to defend pretty good if possible. Without camping!

     

    Defensive or Offensive playing is a matter of skill. You can´t be a successful rusher, if you are unable to hit the opponents quickly and precisely.

    Even more, when you do not use "Blind Eye", "Assassin", "Dead Silence", "Silencer", "Akimbo" and "Shotgun"... ;o)

     

    Since weeks my frustration is increasing, cause nearly 95% of all my "Nemesis" using either "Blind Eye" or "Assassin" - or they are just camping, using shotguns or "Dead Silence"... sometimes i get fed up quickly when we meet one "Defensive" Team after each other!

    It just sucks!

     

    Sry, long answer...

    • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
      Izjar11

      Thanks for replying,

       

      I feel differently in regards to what some think is ruining the game, I normally do not have a problem with one or two defensive players, but this one time I felt frustration. Perks usage doesn't bother me as well.

       

      From what others have responded the true solution is running with a team, only way to communicate and get results as a whole.

       

      But the truth is, nothing is worse than being an objective player and having people not do the objectives just to get kills.

      • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
        BanHaMMer

        In Team Obj we have players who specifically stay at the objective and set up what we call "KILLZONE'S" to protect our flag, the rest take the other objective be it the flag in CTF or DOM. We take it turn about playing defensive or offensive so everyone has a go.

         

        In TDM as a Clan we set up KILLZONE'S, again 2 maybe with 3 players per KILLZONE usually 2 high traffic area's on a map. Sometimes this may mean in the middle of a map laying in the middle of the road with a Trophy System going up one after the other as one goes down. The only problem is the COD Community will look at this as camping. We look at it this way, if some one will continually rush us over and over again. More fool them.

         

        You would be surprised how hard it is to kill a group of 3 players laying prone in the open toe to toe covering each others backs.

         

        Thank you for starting this Thread.

        • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
          Izjar11

          Thank you banhammer,

           

          That is an interesting post, great insight into this game tactic. Killzone, good way to describe it. I felt as if my team was feeding a blackhole, player after player were literally running towards their own death!

          • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
            ForceHunter1

            Personally i still think they should build something in the game that if u stay in same spot for over 10 seconds that your playstation turns off... how can it be fun to lay in a corner... just be offensive, if not... go play fking battlefield

            • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
              Izjar11

              Abit extreme having the system turn off, just imagine if something like you said existed it would cause mayhem, people leaving the game, games never ending.

               

              My view is if its part of the game it has to have a counter.

            • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
              BanHaMMer

              ha ha we don't camp in corners and will often midway through  a game drop smoke and move to another open part of the map and set up another KILLZONE. What we have learned from the days of RESISTANCE FALL OF MAN, is to move as a small group, hide in the open and pack up and move again. This stops your enemy ever getting a tactical line on you.

               

              Yes its a hard and time consuming way to play, but we just injoy trying tactical idea's. Sometimes they fail in very big ways, our greatest surprise is at an end of a long match where we have relied heavely on tactical play, we will "rush hard" this again throws your apponents off.

               

              One of the best features of laying in the open and using silenced weapons is often the runners and gunners will run right past you. I use a Thermal scope when we play this tactic and after the kill keep looking through the appeture for that extra second. This defeats them again if they go to the kill feed to see where you are. Thermal has terrable replay value in kill cam

               

              So I guess you could say, we do play a defensive game. But setting up a KILLZONE and using crossfire and covering each others ark of fire is a good way for 3 players to battle against the odds.

          • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
            phxs72

            They will feed the black hole from time to time but that's when I just let them go in first and try to take a V formation approach behind them. Basically, I just use my random teammate as a distraction and pick off a couple of the emeny team while they are focused on my teammate. It still takes awhile to break their formation but I find that after the enemy takes a few deaths they get frustrated and things break down to the run and gun game that I prefer to play.

      • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense
        Mecha75

        again.  that is a team thing as well.  In domination you just need to hold two points longer than the other team.   Your team that wants to pad their KDRs should cap the flag and then protect the flag.  Lots of kills are generated doing that.  more so then capping A, then B, then C, then A, then B, then C, then A.  Cap A then B and hold the line.  your opponents will rush you and you don't necessarily have to camp.  you can run back and forth between A and B racking up the kills as you do.

  • Re: Todays Hot Topic: Defense vs Offense

    If I had a team to play Dom with. We would cap a or c with b then hold both flags. Camping it out just picking people off as they dive on b. it's very easy to do and racks up the kills and gives your enemy nothing.

     

    As far as I'm concerned camping your flag or bomb ect is not camping I don't care if your laid prone as long as your near you objective it's cool.

     

    I only get mad when there's a guy camping in the most random place that's nothing to do with the game.

     

    At the end of the day the description says defend lol problem is people are used to playing public with no real tactics so as soon as they meet a defender/camper they start crying.

     

     

     

    With tdm it's best to move in a pack or set up shop as a pack because you will mostly encounter one guy at a time.

    I actually like playing against a team that will lock down an area it's fun to try and break them down.