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Shotgun Balance Thread v3


Hi All,


Given permission from Foxhound, I've started a Shotgun Balance Thread v3 but will be asking for co-operation from players who are for the buff of the shotguns & those who are against the buff.


Let's avoid flaming each other & please keep this thread as clean as possible.


So courtesy of Brick2UrFace's suggestions, this is how we, the community, feel the shotguns should be changed:


General Pump Shotgun Changes

  • Pump shotguns to have 80% movement speed while ads. This is the same as SMGs in MW3. Pump Shotguns have had 80-100% ADS mobility for a long time in the COD series; it's a standard feature pump shotguns have had for a while and we just want that back.

  • Pump action shotguns should also have a degree of spread tightening while ads. It was a good feature from Black Ops. In Black Ops, ADS with the Stakeout gave it a spread of 3 degrees which is tighter than its Steady Aim hipfire. ADS is a good way to make your shots as accurate as possible but right now if you are using steady aim on shotguns, your ADS spread will enlarge back to its default (without Steady Aim) size. We feel that trading some mobility for increased range effectiveness is a good feature for MW3 pump shotguns. The particular numbers are:

  • 3.25-4 ADS spread on the SPAS-12 and KSG-12.

  • 3.5-4 ADS spread on the 1887. Only the Model 1887 might need a slightly tighter ads spread than steady aim allows. Its got the damage at range but its spread is still too large with Steady Aim to take advantage of that extra range damage.



Specific Shotgun Changes


SPAS-12 - Increase close range damage to 36 per pellet, giving it 36-14 damage stock (50-19 with Damage Proficiency)


Almost everyone felt the long range damage on the pumps was fine and that the close range inconsistency was the most frustrating feature of pump shotguns. With 36 close range damage, you are no longer pigeon holed into Range, Damage, or even Steady Aim. This increases the versatility of the least versatile gun category in the game. We have had this damage before in MW3. The pre-1.08 SPAS-12 did 420 damage up close which we very rarely found to be unreliable up close. So we know that 400+ damage up close works for reliability. And we know it isn't overpowered because there wasn't a single "NERF THE SPAS!!1" thread in this forum. There were tons of "Buff the Spas at Range" threads in this forum though. So that goes to show the community was fine with 400+ close range and just wanted more damage at range for the spas and we think 36-14 does that quite nicely.



KSG-12 - Increase close range damage to 36 per pellet, giving it 36-15 damage stock (50-21 with Damage Proficiency)


After testing the current reliable one shot kill range of the pumps we have agreed that only the KSG will have an increase in reliable one shot kill range. The SPAS and 1887 will not be able to reliably kill from any further than they do right and the KSG will only have a .65 meter increase in reliable one shot kill range. We have had a 2/8 pellet kill up close on shotguns since COD2 up to MW2, then Black Ops got rid of it with its terrible shotguns that no one used. 2/8 returned again with the pre-1.08 patch SPAS with Damage and E. Mags "glitch" in MW3. The community has not complained about the 2/8 pellet kill on shotguns in the last 6 games that had them so we know they are fine with it. There is a basic principle with the other guns in MW3: the slower the rate of fire, the more damage each shot should do. The high rate of fire automatic ARs have lowest damage, then higher than them are the low rate of fire automatic ARs, then higher than them are the burst fire ARs, then higher than them is the MK14. With shotguns, the pumps shoot the slowest so they should do the most damage per shot at any range.



Model 1887 - Increase close range damage to 40 per pellet, giving it 40-20 damage stock (56-28 with Damage Proficiency)


The Model 1887 needs 40 damage up close because it has a very short max damage range (300 as inches opposed to 400 on the SPAS and KSG.) Making the 1887 do 40 damage per pellet up close allows its slow damage drop to catch up to the other shotguns and would give it a similar 2 pellet kill range with damage (still shorter than Spas and Ksg but only by 20 inches or so).



USAS-12 - Increase long range damage to 7 per pellet, giving it 25-7 damage stock (35-9 with Damage Proficiency)


The USAS-12 is weak in the last 1/5 of its range and can require up to 4-5 shots at that range even with Damage Proficiency. At 25-7, the Damage Proficiency would make it a reliable 3 shot kill at range. That means that it will still take 0.8 seconds to kill at max range. Any other gun in the game will kill in less than .18 seconds at that range so we feel this is balanced. And frankly adding 2 damage per pellet at range is not asking much.



AA-12 - Increase close range damage to 20 per pellet and increase long range damage to 10 per pellet, giving it 20-10 damage stock (28-14 with Damage Proficiency)


The AA-12 is the worst shotgun in MW3 after the 1.08 patch. Terrible range, terrible damage, and terrible ammo - Its only saving grace is the rate of fire compared to other shotguns. But considering the fact that it usually takes 3+ shots to kill and it only puts out 400 rpm, its time to kill is extremely bad. The AA-12 usually takes 2 up close and 5-7 shots at range with good accuracy. With a RoF of 400 rpm, that gives it a time to kill up close of .15 to seconds. That is fairly respectable. Only SMGs and one shot kills beat that. And there is still a tiny chance for a 1 shot kill with the AA-12 so it performs okay up close. But at range its time to kill is between 0.6 and 0.9 seconds. That is unacceptable. Every other gun in MW3 will kill in less than .18 seconds at that range. And the AA-12's range is so limited that it becomes extremely difficult to use. So the 20-10 makes the AA-12 a 2 shot kill up close with a slightly improved one shot kill chance. Still not a good chance but improved from where it is now anyway. But at range the 10 damage makes it a 4 shot kill making it far more reliable by only taking 0.45 seconds to kill at range. That still isn't good compared to other primaries but hey its an auto shotgun so whatever. This is weaker in every way than its MW2 version but we think it will be balanced in MW3.



Striker - No changes needed, but here's a picture anyways.


Links to the previous Shotgun Balance threads:


We should all respect all opinions made in regards to how you feel shotguns currently perform in MW3 so feel free to add your thoughts to how you would like to see shotguns addressed or why you don't agree with the buff.


Players GT/PSN ID's will be appreciated (not compulsory as it was in the previous threads) in whether you agree or disagree with this shotgun proposal.


Again, avoid flaming each other & keep the thread clean. We don't want a repeat of the previous two threads.






  • 1. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    I think by now the developers have a good idea of what they want to do, and hopefully this thread gives them an idea of what the community wants. End of the day, I don't care what they do as long as the shotguns actually pwn the crap out of anyone in a given range, atm I feel like the machine pistol category renders all my shotguns obselete.

  • 2. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    Pretty much what kitty said. Brick told me that the devs are thinking about reduce the range on pump shotguns and buffing the damage. Hopefully they read this and know that we don't want the range reduced we just want the close range damage buffed. The idea isn't exactly complex. You shouldn't be trying your best to gimp any shotgunner who doesn't want to run around spraying with a striker.

  • 3. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    I will just leave this here for general analysis of MW3 pumps current status:



    No lag, no lack of skill, or bad accuracy. Simply bad shotgun.

  • 4. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3



    There's so many videos that can prove how bad shotguns are. Here's one.

  • 5. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    This is my take.
    The SPAS-12 should have the Model's damage output, but with slightly less range (the same as the KSG's, maybe).
    The KSG-12 should also have the Model's current damage output, giving it a fair damage output for having a slightly slower rate of fire.

    The AA-12 definitely needs a buff. Same spread as all shotguns, increase rate of fire, and increase minimum damage to 10. The range should also be the same as the Striker's.
    The Striker is just as fine as it is.
    The Model 1887 should have no damage drop (so it's 30 at all ranges, one pellet is enough to kill in HC at any range it covers, and with Damage, it'll decrease the number of pellets to kill to 3 instead of the usual 4), increase in pellets by one or two, have the same spread as all the other shotguns, and have a slight increase in range to 20 metres. Come on, it's the last shotgun to be unlocked, the Model needs some love.

    Also, some of the proficiencies need to be removed. Kick and Focus are nigh useless because shotguns are designed to be used at close range, and the former is especially useless on pump-action shotguns. Damage should also be unlocked a LOT earlier. In fact, I would agree on making the weapon level cap on the Shotguns 10 instead of 31, and giving the shotguns only Range and Damage, in that order.

  • 6. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    Just think about it this way, if shotguns get these two pellet kills up close, the most hitmarkers you can get is one.

  • 7. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    So are devs actually going to report into this thread?

  • 8. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    I just hope the shotguns CQC damage will be buffed at least before 6 months after BO2 comes out(yeah, i'm that negative about it). Fully agreed with all changes and stats made by Brick should actually give shotguns the competitive edge they so desperately, desperately need.

  • 9. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    All I use is the USAS and I agree that it needs a buff

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