With a 4 spread ads the spas with damage would have about the same range potential as the non damage/range 1887 with steady aim. Go try to use that for yourself and try to justify how having the same range performance ads would be too strong. Currently there is no reason to ads. None at all. The ranges where any benefit ads gives (sticky aim and decreased sensitivity) the spread is too large to use these advantages. Hip fire in cqc is not challenging. Giving a moderate amount of range capability while ads is not a problem. Steady aim will still be more effective in every way because the spread will still be tighter and you will move at 100% not 80%. Steady aim is mandatory to get any range performance out of the shotguns at the moment. Just giving them all 4 degree spreads ads gives slightly enhananced range performance at the cost of a portion of your mobility and the time it takes to aim in. They already know how to give shotguns ads spread bonuses (aa12 and 1887 have them) so its not dificult for them to change these numbers and we know a spread of 4 does not grant rediculous range performance but its better than 5.
Uhm, yes it's challenging to hip fire cqb, with the small steady aim spread on the spas and ksg. Model is already easier to use, but still harder than adsing 24/7. You're saying a 3.25 to 4 spread with damage and range has to same potential a naked model now has with steady aim? Yeah, no way, let alone with 2-pellet kills.
These changes will never happen. Most likely they won't even add 2-pellet kills on the spas and model let alone ksg with 2/9 and a 3.25 to 4 spread adsed.
There are many, many advantages to adsing now cqb, since it's that much easier to do constantly all ranges. Cqb (where shotties should be used) a 5 spread is preferred with player movement and lag, when on target, especially with 2 pellet kills. 3.25-4 Spread helps on range more than anything else, next to making getting on target a lot easier as well when adsing. There should be some skill involved in getting longer range kills and superb accuracy cqb & long range shots for shotties. It has always been like this. Using the stakeout as an example is a hilarious argument knowing it's overall range and relatively short max damage range mainly, let alone when shotties get the specialist bonus in mw3.
Why didn't shotties have that accurate 3.25-4 spread in mw2 then adsed? Even in that retard game shotties take some skill to use to their full potential. Let alone in mw3, with all these relatively cqb friendly maps and no SP multipliers on most fully autos (most take 3 to 4/5/6 hits to kill, next to headshot multipliers making it 2). Sure RF smgs are better all-round, but I'm fine with that, if pumps get 2-pellet kills, all that needs to be done to keep them skill based and constant in their zone.
You really think they will make them easier to use and almost as powerful, actually more powerful with the specialist bonus than in mw2? Yeah, not happening.
What makes you think there is any, any chance at all of them adding near steady aim accuracy (something that now needs great aim constantly and a perk) and a good power buff in the mix? The power buff is needed, especially with the recent average smg / ar buffs, but they won't make them easier to use in the meantime, if they even touch them at all (especially without touching the range potential to compensate for the Range P).
Do you realise you still have to be aiming in the same spot as with steady aim to get any effectiveness from an ads buff? Its not like your aim can be worse. It still takes very good accuracy to take advantage of a 4 degree spread at range.
Adsing with the proposed spas with damage would have about the same reliable one shot kill range as the naked 1887 with steady aim. They are literally only like .67 meters different.
Its almost as easy to hipfire in cqc as it is to ads. And with 100% mobility while hipfiring its also more effective because you can fire and strafe effectively.
There is no reason to ads with shotguns. Its already easy to hipfire in cqc and you can strafe at full speed while doing it and steady aim is more effective at range.
The reason they didn't have it in mw2 is because it had never been done yet and they didn't think of it. Black ops was the first to do it. I remember when ghandi was asked why steady aim tightness was lost while adsing, he thought it was a glitch at first because it makes sense for ads to allow for better accuracy. Every weapon in every cod besides shotguns get more accurate while ads. Shotguns are the odd man out. One degree of spread tightening gives us a reason to ads without steady aim. Currently there is not.
Smgs have near 80% mobility while ads, stalker gives you 100% while ads. They were not afraid of making perks less useful on other guns. I don't like the 100% reliance on a perk for adding lethal range to shotguns in mw3. No other weapon class has 100% reliance like that.
What we are asking for is a logical evolution for shotguns. The 2 pellet kill that was introduced a long time ago, the 80% ads mobility that was introduced long ago, and a small degree of ads spread tightening that was introduced in blackops. These three things were all widely accepted features of shotguns in their own games. We make small modifications to the capabilities these features give and we get balanced but more versatile shotguns.
I find interesting that while playing in 3rd person mode, it shows that ADSing with Shotguns tightens the spread (crosshairs), but it does not either. Crosshairs tightening is only a visual effect. All shotguns ADSing should be the same degree of spread as their 3rd person ADSing shows.
Go ahead and test it out Private Match if you want guys. (3rd person mode ON)
That wont change the inconsistency and with a 35 damage profile you will make the damage proficiency almost pointless. I have in mw3 a playtime of 23 hours and would take ANY machine pistole secondary over a shotgun (except the Striker).
How it wouldn't change the inconsistency? 3hk with 9 pellets without damage is something much better than currently. It would be nice to have a shotgun dedicated to Range or Focus.
And of course, one could use Damage to go for the Specialist bonus. It wouldn't be the most qualified for that, but it would hardly suck. Anyone with half accuracy can get a 3/9 pellet kill. I mean, people used the Ext. Mag SPAS-12 glitched without Damage and did good with it.
Isn't 3/9 = Ranger single shell (using akimbo, but firing only a single shell) in MW2? It was pretty good in cqc if you ask me. Learn how to aim brah
And if you do the math, Damage + Range it will be much, much better than currently
You guys really don't give enough credit to the extra pellet. If they decide to took that pellet away, though, everyone would ragequit MW3.
The rangers did 75-35 damage firing 6 pellets. A single shot from the rangers is not that impressive. Its when you fire multiple shots at once where it becomes a cqc powehouse. Its like hitmarkers with the usas, yeah they happen but the fire rate is high enough to save you. 1/3 pellets to kill isn't good enough those videos prove that.
You are right with damage and range it will be much better than it is now but no where near as good as a 2/8 spas and 1887 with specialist. 36-15 does everything you want the ksg to do as well as giving it increased reliability in cqc with damage.
The extra pellet still results in hitmarkers as shown in the videos. They happen at a slightly decreased rate than the other manual actions but no where near reliable enough for something with 60 rpm fire rate and only 600 inches of total range.