28 Replies Latest reply: Jul 31, 2013 5:43 PM by Izjar11 RSS

Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.

nicedrewishfela

Activision's Community Manager Dan Amrich put this out today. Thought you all might find it interesting.

 

http://oneofswords.com/2012/11/vahns-thoughts-on-black-ops-ii-lag-latency/?utm_s ource=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+oneofswords+%28One+Of+ Swords%29

 

Vahn’s thoughts on Black Ops II lag & latency

by DAN on NOVEMBER 25, 2012

This weekend I have noticed some comments/complaints about matchmaking, lag, and latency in lobbies for Black Ops II. I sometimes see lag hiccups in online games — all games, any games — because, well, I’m playing them online. If you want lag-free gaming, you have to go LAN or split-screen, but if you want to play with people across the country or around the world, you’re going to sometimes see a delay as the data makes it way around the series of tubes. Lag is inherent to online gaming, it’s ultimately entirely random at any given time you sit down to play (nobody controls the Internet, remember?), and no developer or publisher will ever be able to remove it from an online experience.

That said, Treyarch — like other developers — tries its best to mitigate how much lag and latency affect each player’s game. Game design director David Vonderhaar apologized for his torrent of Tweets on Sunday, but what he said on the topic of lag and latency in Black Ops IIis, I think, worth reading:


@DavidVonderhaar

You can change your Matchmaking search preferences when selecting a Playlist to join with the X/Square/Keyboard shortcut. +

25 Nov 12

 

 

@DavidVonderhaar

This places an upper limit on the ping/latency of the lobby/game you will join. +

25 Nov 12

 

@DavidVonderhaar

Read the descriptions carefully. You may end up waiting a long time and possibly never finding a lobby. +

25 Nov 12

 

 

 

 

@DavidVonderhaar

It’s the Internet. Things change fast. Hosts can migrate, an upstream ISP drops a routing table. Whatever. +

25 Nov 12

 

 

@DavidVonderhaar

But, I assure you, at the time of the search, it’s putting you in the best lobby it can from the available search results. +


@DavidVonderhaar

No matter what you forum post you read or what YT video you watched, connection is king at all times above all other criteria. +

25 Nov 12

We continue to evaluate improvements to matchmaking. Anything in the game that generates more traffic than it should, will get beat down. +

25 Nov 12

 

Millions of gamers are playing Black Ops II online with minimal to no issues — but that doesn’t mean whatever problem you are encountering is unimportant, nonexistent, or incapable of being addressed. If you continue to see issues that stop you from playing the game as it’s designed to be played, go tosupport.activision.com and see if it’s already covered (there’s a list of the current hot topics at the top of the page). If not, submit feedback using any of the methods listed on the site — live chat, email, phone, Twitter, or Facebook. This is what Activision customer support does — it exists to support Activision’s customers. And even though you rarely get a personal reply from the developers to your feedback, they are hearing it. Just give them time to process it.

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.

    Dedicated servers would get rid of 90% of everyones problems

    • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
      Rednecksniper39

      And you know this 100% because you have set up dedicated servers the exact same as they would for COD and had the same number of people on them all around the would as COD would have?

    • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
      trialstardragon

      Actualy no it would not. Dedicates serers are not the golden ticket that fixes all problems or even 50% of the problems that gamers have. Just fools like to think it does. All dedis help is with host migration and stat padding. Dedicated servers still have lag issues and hit detection issues. Even BF3 which has dedi's has all the same problems that CoD can have and just as bad at times minus the host migration issue.

       

      So no dedi's are not nor ever will be the fix to 90% of the problems this game has. Please learn more about them and stop jumping on the dedi bandwagon thinking they are the best thing in gaming when for some games they really are not.

      • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
        Ss78_

        Dedis might not be the golden ticket but neither is the current system. They both have flaws. When I first had a thread about dedis to up my understanding on the subject the money aspect was the main point for not implementing them that came up time and time again.

         

        The other point that came up was vahn saying something along the lines of "then we'll just have to keep the locale only option".

         

        The current system has replaced the locale only with best going by latency but with the possible hindrance of skilled based matchmaking which seemingly is having a detrimental effect. This in turn is leading people to ask the question about dedis again.

         

        It doesn't bother me either way which system they use as long as it provides a reasonable experience for all. At the moment it's not doing that for me and others but some seem to be unaffected.

      • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
        SitRepPro

        trialstardragon wrote:

         

        Actualy no it would not. Dedicates serers are not the golden ticket that fixes all problems or even 50% of the problems that gamers have. Just fools like to think it does. All dedis help is with host migration and stat padding. Dedicated servers still have lag issues and hit detection issues. Even BF3 which has dedi's has all the same problems that CoD can have and just as bad at times minus the host migration issue.

         

        So no dedi's are not nor ever will be the fix to 90% of the problems this game has. Please learn more about them and stop jumping on the dedi bandwagon thinking they are the best thing in gaming when for some games they really are not.

         

        Ever played Gears of War 3 then?

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.

    Honestly, I think Region Lock would solve a LOT of the lag issues. It worked for MW3 in the beginning; I didn't get any lag from that game up until the January update, when all the foreign garbage connections flooded matchmaking.

    • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
      SitRepPro

      fallenshadow000 wrote:

       

      Honestly, I think Region Lock would solve a LOT of the lag issues. It worked for MW3 in the beginning; I didn't get any lag from that game up until the January update, when all the foreign garbage connections flooded matchmaking.

       

      Yep!  Country/region locking would reduce ping times.  Sometimes I'm in French lobbies and London is about 30 miles away from where I live....

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
    D00Msay3r82

    "This places an upper limit on the ping/latency of the lobby/game you will join."

     

    Any numbers given? What's the upper limit exactly? A Ping below 50ms or more like below 100ms? What does a 4 bar connection actually mean? Again: a ping below 50 ms?
    My ping s way below 50 - even on my ps 3 system i ping f.e the google servers in approx. 25 ms, which isn't the top performance u can get but i think it's pretty decent and sufficient to play only games. They should implement stronger boundaries to this "upper limit on the ping" in my opinoin- i don't care waiting even a few minutes to play a game - when it's at least playable.

     


    As i heard bo 2 will use ping-related matchmaking i was like: "Yeah, my dreams finally come true (closer to this would only have been  dedicated servers) and it will play as smoothly as bo 1 did for me. But this kind of matchmaking is so flawed at it's current state it either puts me ending up as host, which is truly unbearable or in lobbies with too many different bared players - saw even two bar connections there. Thta's not the way a system like this should be implemented.

     

     


    • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.

      I fairly sure 4 bar is up to 99ms, then 3 bar is 100ms-199ms. But i'm calling bullshiit on it because i play mostly on 4 bar connections and am still behind my opponents for almost a whole second. i can dump a full clip into the back of someone, have them turn around kill me. A full clip takes alot longer than 99ms to empty and i lag that much behind.

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
    roachoutro

    All Vonderhaars arquments are invalid. MW2s connections still work perfectly. Even though it has much less players online.

     

    Any news on "lag comp" fix? BLOPS2 is still unplayable.

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.

    I've had no lag or connection issues since launch so it's obviously an issue with all of you.

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
    LQDS

    bo2 unplayible

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
    wikked75

    although i'm not questioning whether millions are playing online and experiencing little to no issues, which may very well be true... but it's also just as feasible that most people that experience issues just don't care enough about a video game to make a big deal about it and report it to anyone.

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.

    Why is there no lag in MW2 right now?

    The killcams line up everytime, in a game type with 700 people online in the world?

    Treyarch have messed up the match making and lag comp.

    They shouldn't have touched those codes.

    • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
      nicedrewishfela

      You said it yourself. 700 people online. Not a lot of stress on the servers.

       

      Did you play that  game the first few months it was released? Was an absolute mess.

      • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
        radical_53

        It was great actually when it started. Player numbers were much lower on PC than on consoles but we still had around 150.000 people playing for the first 3 or 4 months.

        It worked quite well and hit detection / lag wasn't a problem. When the DLCs came and player numbers dropped it got far worse though.

         

        With proper dedicated servers and an incentive to get your connection right we shouldn't have problems on any mode, anywhere in the world. Not on PC, ot on console.

        It may not alway be easy to find a good game right away if you're far abroad or try to play at an odd time of day but apart from that it should simply work fine.

         

        If everyone tried to play off his wireless while mum is on the phone (VoIP), NAT is strict and connects from the middle of nowhere... well Of course that doesn't work.

        The sad part is that these guys get the upper hand though because they're being compensated for their bad connections. They shouldn't be.

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
    MLGTWISTED

    it says right there that they don't read forums, twitter, facebook, email only, I guess thats why we never get any feedback on here, lol.

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.

    I think proper dedicated servers would work much better. Would fix all sorts of host migration problems and hosts dashboarding as well. You would never have a "bad host"

     

    What I mean by proper is being able to see the servers and how well you ping to them and pick the one of your choosing. You would have the power to pick servers that you ping well to and you would know exactly what to expect if you picked a server further away. Obviously if your party was spread out you would have to pick a neutral server.

     

    However, at least you would know before entering it would have more lag than usual and you could prepare for it.

     

    With the current system, you have no choice. The matchmaking hasn't really worked correctly in a long time, and it's very inconsistent. Not to mention people dashboarding or quitting and ruining your experience.

     

    Maybe they could even do a hybrid, they could keep regular matchmaking for those who live in less densly populated areas while still offering dedicated servers. This I think would be ideal.

     

    I dont know of anyone who has a lot of experience playing in dedicated servers (you know being able to choose what server you play in) that would prefer the current matchmaking experience.

     

    Treyarch did do dedicated servers on PC (or so they say) but they didn't give people the option to see the servers and see how well they ping to them... which is pointless. For all people know it could just be the regular matchmaking hence all the problems with lag on the PC as well. Just give people the choice to play on a server that they ping well too!!

    • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
      radical_53

      As the problems on PC are just the same as on consoles at the moment I fairly doubt there are "real" dedicated servers that run the whole match on PC.

      They may have done something "clever" so the game uses more than a single host (as I haven't seen host migration yet) but that's about it. Feels like p2p, looks like p2p, isn't any better than p2p to me.

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
    rockypeters

    OP, thanks bro. I fell that many people needed to see this... I just hope they did.

  • Re: Vahn discusses Lag/Connectivity issues.
    Izjar11

    How has this topic changed over the months nicedrewishfela? It seems to me the topic of "lag" or "lag comp" have gone slowly away into nerfs and bufs and now hacks.

     

    Yet this topic is always a dangerous one to mention, good post btw.