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  • 50. Re: TCP UDP and SpeedTest/PingTest

    I can use either a 100/5 connection at home or a DS3 that is monitored by professionals for latency and quality.

     

    Here is the real test:  Play older CoD games.  No problems?  Thats because BO2 is broken as far as the what you see on the screen being in sync with what other players see.  Is this because or lag or another issue with the game as demonstrated in several videos in splitscreen or on a local lan?  Hard to say.

     

    What is easy to determine is that there is no problem with your connection.  If other games work such as CoD4, MW2, or even MW3 the problem is not your connection.  Dont believe the hype about connection requirements.  The XBOX uses very little overall and if it doesnt work correctly on a DS3 that is monitored by AT&T 24/7 for latency and quality (originally purchased for real time data exchanges that rely on sub 20ms response, but currently serves as my personal DS3 until the contract is up), then it's just broke.

     

    It's that simple.

  • 51. Re: TCP UDP and SpeedTest/PingTest
    maccabi

    typecastfloat wrote:

     

    --Pre note

    I am extremely tired and in a pretty good amount of pain from my shoulder. Some things may be wrong, excuse me!

     

    UDP is faster than TCP. By much (or anything noticable)? No. I have never looked at any binary or source form of any file that contains to Call of Duty - this is all visually analyzed or guessed.

     

    Sending small, required packets is tricky. Judging "packets" is worse. No game can send a packet saying which direction (or the fact that you're moving) constantly. It's bloating, slow and can stall. What most games will do is do the calculations based on the last packet recieved and will update further if another one is recieved. So, your client is actually calculating what the person is doing based on last "letter" from the player. This can cause issues if not performed correctly (obviously).

     

    The XBOX360 has a limited CPU, I think 3 cores. So, we have 1 core for the XBOX 360, 1 core for the game. We're down to 1 last "string" (obviously you can create more threads, hell, most implementations of IOCP use NumOfProcessors * 2!). There must be more going on, so we can't use an extra thread for this (probably non-blocking sockets they went with). We have 16 players, 15 players are sending packets to one guy and that one guy is sending it to everybody is the only logical implementation plausable for the whole "Host" sitauation. 1 guy, sending hundres of packets, to everybody. It's a time-consuming operation (yes, time is still spent in the drivers!). We have a better view on this, so let's go further! Now you (probably not) understand the whole deal with Host, which causes the issues with the videos from Recent Games (I'm guessing they just rip the packets and write them to the file in Binary).

     

    Floats on the XBOX360 are TERRIBLE! They are time consuming to the max! However, in most 3D games, they are required. This slows down the networking more, since there is quite a bit of D3DXVECTOR3's being processed by the CPU (float x, float y, float z). Now, add more issues, and turn to the players. As you stated, a lot of people use wireless. Correct. There may be more people on the router, which causes even more stress. There ISP may be going through a spot (it happens, especially during the weekends). One more thing to go through. A simple bug can arise from the most simplest things. Hell, I spent a solid week on my game because I was accidently rounding down a float, causing clipping issues. It's a damn mess to review every line you created (well, use a debugger now a days! ), but it's even worse if you use a scripting system.

    great post!

     

    only thing to add is as people are pedantic on the forums and have a tendancy to google bad information ,UDP is faster than Tcp yep, but there are applications where tcp would be faster than UDP, none of these really apply to twitch shooters (cod)  though. You can also trunk tcp connections together we use a similar system at work using iscsi, in fact one of networks at home runs off iscsi  but again pointless for gaming where udp is the king The beauty of udp over tcp/ip for a game like a twitch shooter as cod is is udps ability to deliver to a group of people much more reilably than tcp where the most recent update is vital,

     

    and yep you're right about the video thing too.

     

    Yep floats on the xbox are terribad, if you've ever had the misfortune of compiling with netcf jit you'll know the head on desk and screaming at the screen scenerio, i hate the xbox and its stoopid dependencies I came from a pc background and found the hard way some assemblies dont contain the same apis as the desktop framework . gotta love spending needlessly wasted hours on simple mistakes i think i actually wore the ildasm.exe icon out on my desktop constanting de/ re compiling stuff.

     

  • 52. Re: TCP UDP and SpeedTest/PingTest
    smokingb0b

     

    A lot of players comer here and think that by throwing up their speedtest or pingtest scores they are proving something about the game. When in all reality you are not proving anything at all. And there is one major reason why. Those tests run by pingtest and speedtest test your tcp connection not your udp connection. This game does not use tcp connections to connect you to other players it uses udp. Tcp has error correction protocols that help adjust for lost packets and jitter and other things that udp does not do. So no matter how well your score or grade is on those tests it really means nothing since those scores are only for your tcp connections which are not used in game play itself.

     

     

    Correct. However a tcp ping to host will tell you the quality of the connection, i.e. lost packets on tcp will indicate a poor host. A low ping, no packet loss (TCP) will indicate a good quality connection. I done this here

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxrcPK-_yPg&list=UUyOl7UiD7hl7PJ8Voi6lchg&index=1

     

     

    Plus speedtest means nothing, since your overall bandwdith means nothing, this game does not now or ever use the full bandwidth which is what the speedtest shows you. So does not matter if you have a 100down 50up with a grade of A or anything since that test is only related to your tcp connection quality and not your udp connection quality.

     

     

    As above

     

     

    And pingtest in not accurate either, since it once again deals with tcp ping and not udp ping and the two and different. The quailty and stability betweent the two are not the same. So any result that only shows your tcp connection quality really means nothing since the game does not use tcp connections when playing

     

    Again a strong TCP connection will indicate a good connection. Its not definitive but a secondary source observation on the quality of the connection. .

     

     

     

    Plus you have to take into consideration if your isp is blocking udp ports or throttleing udp connections which many do with out ever telling you. They do this because udp is the protocol used most often for file sharing through bittorrent applications. So during heavy traffic times they throttle udp connections to limit the affects it has on their overall bandwidth they are trying to support for everyone on their network.

     

    I have a small local ISP. I know the owner. he does not throttle UDP ports. I asked. However i still suffer lag in game.

     

     

     

     

    Another little tidbit of information; do you realize that most ips have oversold their conecction quality and bandwidth in most areas and that the isp is actually not capable of properly supporting the demand being playced upon those connections by everyone trying to use them when they do.

     

    Again see above.

     

    Now lets talk about consoles and the connection and the router. Not everyone that plays this game has their console wired, and yes wireless will add in some lag especially if the router is clear across the house from the console as in many homes. Not everyone has the router in the same room or just one room away. Plus not everyone uses a high quality router that is fully compatable with the xbox and xbl service. And this can and does cause connection quality issues too. Many of the routers sold by most ips are not fully compatable with xbl or the xbox so that will add in lag or other problems. They are only meant for normal internet use and not for gaming. Gaming is not considered normal internet use by most isp's.

     

    So everyone on MW2 players with a connected router and are close to me and have their home network setup perfectly, hence the fantastic hit detection in the game. That’s plausible.

     

     

    The XBOX360 has a limited CPU, I think 3 cores. So, we have 1 core for the XBOX 360, 1 core for the game. We're down to 1 last "string" (obviously you can create more threads, hell, most implementations of IOCP use NumOfProcessors * 2!). There must be more going on, so we can't use an extra thread for this (probably non-blocking sockets they went with). We have 16 players, 15 players are sending packets to one guy and that one guy is sending it to everybody is the only logical implementation plausable for the whole "Host" sitauation. 1 guy, sending hundres of packets, to everybody. It's a time-consuming operation (yes, time is still spent in the drivers!). We have a better view on this, so let's go further! Now you (probably not) understand the whole deal with Host, which causes the issues with the videos from Recent Games (I'm guessing they just rip the packets and write them to the file in Binary).

     

    So the developers over stressed the console???? I'm a SAN engineer. If i have a customer with 100% utilization on their system and its causing slow down and disconnects i will send them teh EMC white paper on setup and utilization and tell them to f*** off.  If you leave no overhead that will have consequences. 

     


  • 53. Re: TCP UDP and SpeedTest/PingTest

    Don't believe what other people post or say on the internet because everything can be faked somehow. Sorry, i didn't want to disturb you guys discussion.

     

    For entertainment purpose only.

     

  • 54. Re: TCP UDP and SpeedTest/PingTest
    sgtDLC

    trialstardragon wrote:

     

    A lot of players comer here and think that by throwing up their speedtest or pingtest scores they are proving something about the game. When in all reality you are not proving anything at all. And there is one major reason why. Those tests run by pingtest and speedtest test your tcp connection not your udp connection. This game does not use tcp connections to connect you to other players it uses udp. Tcp has error correction protocols that help adjust for lost packets and jitter and other things that udp does not do. So no matter how well your score or grade is on those tests it really means nothing since those scores are only for your tcp connections which are not used in game play itself.

     

    He is right, tcp and udp are 2 diferante conn.

    Only way to find out ping of other players you are playing with is make your pc bridge and connect your console to your pc and use software like SmartSniff and you will se ping of every player in loby (you will not see their gamertags in smartsniff, you will only se their ip)

     

    example:

     

    ip ???.???.??.?? , type of conn UDP, how much trafic per second and so on

     

    some older versions don't have ping so you will need to ping their ip manualy in cmd console

  • 55. Re: TCP UDP and SpeedTest/PingTest
    BOOMHAUER112377

    I can use either a 100/5 connection at home or a DS3 that is monitored by professionals for latency and quality.

     

    Here is the real test:  Play older CoD games.  No problems?  Thats because BO2 is broken as far as the what you see on the screen being in sync with what other players see.  Is this because or lag or another issue with the game as demonstrated in several videos in splitscreen or on a local lan?  Hard to say.

     

    What is easy to determine is that there is no problem with your connection.  If other games work such as CoD4, MW2, or even MW3 the problem is not your connection.  Dont believe the hype about connection requirements.  The XBOX uses very little overall and if it doesnt work correctly on a DS3 that is monitored by AT&T 24/7 for latency and quality (originally purchased for real time data exchanges that rely on sub 20ms response, but currently serves as my personal DS3 until the contract is up), then it's just broke.

     

    It's that simple.

     

     

    I agree 100%

  • 56. Re: TCP UDP and SpeedTest/PingTest
    maccabi

    BOOMHAUER112377 wrote:

     

    I can use either a 100/5 connection at home or a DS3 that is monitored by professionals for latency and quality.

     

     

    ..................

    The XBOX uses very little overall and if it doesnt work correctly on a DS3 that is monitored by AT&T 24/7 for latency and quality (originally purchased for real time data exchanges that rely on sub 20ms response, but currently serves as my personal DS3 until the contract is up), then it's just broke.

     

    It's that simple.

     

     

    Having a ds3 that connects im assuming direct to at&t'soc48/192

    is great congratulations does your ds3 extend all the way to the hosts xbox ? no so thats a pointless thing to bring up as proof of anything, why do people always assume just because THEY have a decent connection neveryone else does.

  • 57. Re: TCP UDP and SpeedTest/PingTest
    BOOMHAUER112377

    I was just agreeing with what the guy above me said, don't know how to quote. But I guess when I was playing MW1 and MW2 everyone had a great connection back then? What was I thinking?

  • 58. Re: TCP UDP and SpeedTest/PingTest

    Those games still work great even with all the connections people have now.

     

    I played them both this weekend and the gameplay was excellent.

  • 59. Re: TCP UDP and SpeedTest/PingTest
    BOOMHAUER112377

    I was being sarcastic to maccabI. He always has some sort of lame defense for our wild accusations.

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