46 Replies Latest reply: Jan 17, 2013 1:32 PM by Foxhound-Pro RSS

Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?

I just sat thru +40 minutes of Spawn Killing/Trapping by a team a six on Carrier and Highjack prompting to forum entry.  Perhaps it is time to demand action or mass BOYCOTT CoD.

 

It is rather frustrating and highly concerning that NO ACTIONS (that I know of) are being taken toward those whom religiously practice Spawn Killing/Trapping.  To draw a comparison, based on the Code of Conduct, Boosting/Cheating addresses those whom leverage exploits or employ collusion to benefit either in rank and/or achievements.  I contend that Spawn Killing/Trapping offers the exact same benefit as the offenders are rewarded with various accolades; however, done at the expense of those whom attempt to enjoy a fair online challenge.  Fact is, to effectively Spawn Kill/Trap, collusion must exist between members of the same team.  Therefore, Spawn Killing/Trapping should not be viewed differently than Boosting, as the shortcomings of spawn system is exploited for gain.

 

What's further disturbing is that MANY invest upwards of $60 USD (not including the additional expenses related to season passes and/or individual map pack purchases) with the intentions upon enjoying the online community.  However, there are many bad apples which negatively impact this experience.  Why aren't action being taken to protect the brand for a game which many seem to enjoy, rather than protection of those whom basically cheat to increase their undeserved notoriety?

 

For all of those CoD loyalist out there, let's take a stance and demand change.  Threatening the bottom-line, let's ban together and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.  Do not invest any more money (BOYCOTT) into this game and future releases until the makers decide to listen to the voices and do something about this practice.  Consider, such things as revamping the spawn system to combat Spawn Kill/Trap exploits or implementing reflective damage against those whom dare to continue the practice.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    TL_Bare_B_V2

    spawn killing and spawn trapping are 2 different things.

     

    Spawn Killing - Killing a player instantly as he spawns

     

    Spawn Trapping - Containing a a team to an area but still allowing them to move from spawn.

     

     

     

    the first was a bannable offence on MW3 not sure about BO2

     

    the second takes team work to control the map and is by no means easy and is not a bannable offence.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    obzi

    The two are very different, spawn trapping is part of the game and spawn killers are just scum cheats who should be banned for life.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    xmrythem

    Tilt_000 wrote:

     

    I just sat thru +40 minutes of Spawn Killing/Trapping by a team a six on Carrier and Highjack prompting to forum entry.  P

    LOL. Thats your fault for staying all 40 minutes. You can leave the game at anytime.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    rftp17

    boo hoo, get better at the game. Just because a team is skilled enough and coordianted enough to spawn trap does not warrant a boycott or ban, i get it is a pain in the back side to break out of it but i would suggest emp grenades for the tac inserts and shotgun class for fast kills to break the line.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    TH3_IT

    Didn't care to read your whole rant...Your title says enough.  You obviously have no clue. 

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    smokesdope

    Spawn killing is against the CoC just leave the game go to your recent players and report the team that was doing it . That's about all you can do .

    • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
      Jarod1231

      The question is are you getting killed right after you spawn INSIDE your spawn? or after you spawn and run OUTSIDE your spawn? I'm all for complaining if you're getting killed inside your spawn... but if you are simply spawning and complaining because you can't get on the B flag its your own fault for not finding a way to kill the guy covering the choke point that you keep blindly running out into

      • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?

        Yes.  I wish there was some way I could post last night's video to this board.  I and others were killed IMMEDIATELY after spawning.

         

        Here are the details for the 2nd of two sessions which led to my post...

         

         

        For instance, when playing CTF on Highjack there is a Trap that leads to Spawn Kills on either end of the ship.  When spawning in the aft of the boat, if the other team is positioned properly - taking away all other spawn points - you will spawn on the port (left) side just outside the door.  If the offender is standing on top of the stairs leading toward the middle of the ship, he/she has a clear and immediate shot for everyone that spawns as soon as they spawn.

         

        The person who was doing this Spawn Killed so many, that part way thru he had to change weapons (noticed by the change in the weapon icon post kill).  Playing hard core, it is rather rare and difficult to go on such a string that one would actually run out of ammo when using an SMG.

    • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?

      But here is the problem, when you leave a game you are penalized.  That said, how is it fair that you take a loss due to others violating and/or expoiting the game's weaknesses? So it's basically d@mned if you do; d@mned is you don't.

       

      Oh wait, perhaps I should what... Dashboard?

       

      No the proper fix would be to actually enforce actions against Code of Conduct infractions and develop a system preventing these types of issues.

      • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
        Dyn4mics

        I don't believe it's enforced. I've never been disciplined for spawn trapping and utterly destroying other teams in their spawns.

         

        This has gone on with great frequency since MW2. Perhaps part of the reason I was 98% avoided.

         

        In all honesty, if it gets to the point where you can't get out of your spawn, you're gonna lose anyway. Back out and get yourself into a new game, saves you pain and suffering as well as time.

      • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
        smokesdope

        Yeah but if you dash then they aren't going to be in your recent players list :( @Dynamics yes it is enforced why wouldn't it be its cheating ?

           Of course the spawn system could be improved but the lame a$$ Dbags would STILL find away to exploit the system no matter how perfect it is :(

        • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
          Ungrateful_Dead

          smokesdope wrote:

           

          Yeah but if you dash then they aren't going to be in your recent players list @Dynamics yes it is enforced why wouldn't it be its cheating ?

             Of course the spawn system could be improved but the lame a$$ Dbags would STILL find away to exploit the system no matter how perfect it is

           

          Why dashboard?  Quitting is not the same thing, and you can see recent players when you quit.

           

          I doubt very much that spawn trapping is enforced as cheating; please give an example.

           

          Note that I am not referring to the dirtbags lying prone with LMGs wall banging the spawn on Terminal to get their MOABs and other such nonsense.  That is clearly an exploit and an example of "spawn killing."  The common definition of a "spawn trap" is to pin an enemy at one flag while holding the other two in a game like domination.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?

    I can't say I have ever been spawn trapped in a way I couldn't get out. Spawn killing in this game is as much a product of shitty spawns as it is of any intent. Overall this hasn't been much of an issue for me. Sorry you had to sit through it. Probably had public team mates right?

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    Ungrateful_Dead

    They can kick the boosters and hackers right out of the game as far as I am concerned, but equating that to a team controlling a spawn, aka spawn trapping? 

     

    First, if the trapping team is not purely spawn killing, they are not violating the rules.  It is not "exploiting" to use teamwork and mics to coordinate your efforts.  It is just smart team play.  It may not be fun to have it happen to you, but that's how it is set up.  If you get into a lobby where the other team are sporting matching clan tags or are all running mics, you can assume your solo show is about to run into a challenge.  I think more people running solo should try mercenary or multi-team (where small teams can still smoke you but they might have trouble holding a trap).

     

    If you think Treyarch has a problem with spawn trapping, consider that they removed the respawn protection from kill-streaks that existed in MW3.  This game was built to cater to the YouTubers and the triple digit kill games with its plethora of lethal streaks.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?

    ....And this is why K/D is such a useless Stat to look at in terms of judging one's "skill" in this game. If you're a K/D person, and you're not playing FFA or TDM, then you're a product of society for sure, and need to maybe look at finding yourself, and perhaps need a hug.

     

    Note to the OP: Spawn killing is supposedly against the CoC, but I've been a part of, and on the sh*t end of the stick in these instances, and everyone I know who's done this or is still doing it on a regular basis, and almost every map is still playing.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    phxs72

    Since others have undoubtedly explained the difference between spawn killing and spawn trapping, I'll jut attempt to explain why you really can't ban spawn trapping.  The devs could improve the spawns or the map flow to make it more difficult to do but you can't ban people for doing it.  Since DOM is a team based gamemode, every game will be won by the more coordinated team.  In DOM you have one objective, to capture and hold flags longer than the enemy team.  In order to do this you have to be able to suppress the enemy teams movements.  It's not possible to do this without engaging the enemy and since the enemy only spawns at their home flag when you have two flags capped, there is no where else to engage them.  Ergo the spawn trap.  The only other method to play DOM would be to cap all three flags and hide in the possible spawn locations for your kills.  This actually provides the enemy even less opportunity to make a comeback as they will be shot in the back nonstop.  I understand your dislike of getting spawn trapped.  Nobody likes it but its quite frankly how the game is built. 

     

    On the upside, however, DOM in BO2 does allow your team a chance to redeem themselves by having two rounds and alternating the home flag.  Having that second round can make a big difference.  I was playing DEMO the other night and in round one my team got manhandled.  It was awful.  We as a team couldn't get out of our spawn.  I personnally was doing okay but because nobody else could get out it really didn't matter.  So I decided to just work on getting my killstreaks going and saved them for round two.  In round two, I hit them with everything including the kitchen sink and my team got revenge.  We ended up going into overtime where we lost but I have to say that it was a total dogfight and a lot of fun despite getting spawn trapped early on.  Spawn trapping is a part of the game and learning how to effectively deal with it may not be easy but it is necessary if you ever want to have those dogfight matches where you feel good about it even if you lost in the end.

    • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
      mr742

      If a person is holding the flag behind the spawn, why not spawn the person being camped at the other teams flag as if it were TDM instead of being spawned over and over in the same 3 places at your own base?

       

      The opposing (spawn killing)team should be penalized for hiding behind your flag/spawn

       

      Dont play DOM so I couldnt compare the to or come up with a similar scenario.

      • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
        phxs72

        DOM will spawn you on the enemy home flag if an enemy has taken up residence in your home spawn.  It won't do it if they are just running through your spawn but if they have a line of sight into your spawn it will cause the spawn to flip.  However, it doesn't do this in DEMO or CTF that I'm aware of.  Well it sort of does in that it pushes your spawn out to the alternative spawn point which is still on your starting half of the map and likely still an area that's well staked out by the enemy team.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    MrJDubbs11

    Spawn trapping and Spawn killing are two different things. 

     

    One (spawn trapping) takes a tremendous amount of team work and coordination.  Teams that work together are going to win more often and are going to be able to do this against randoms.   

     

    Spawn killing just happens.  It happens more in this game because of several factors that have all come about due to all of the changes made from previous titles. 

     

    If you are mad about spawn killing don't blame the players blame the development team.  They designed and created these god awful maps which are the reason you are here complaining. 

     

    Second before you complain about the players put your selves in thier shoes.  You just had someone spawn in front of you.  Do you A)  kill them B) try to reverse direction and hope they don't follow you or kill you C) let them kill you D) Hope they are nice and you both go your separate ways?   You do A you kill them and move along. 

     

    You are playing a kill or be killed game.  If someone appears in front of you you are going to get killed.  I played HC KC last night and 10 of my 20 deaths were because someone spawned behind me in the exact spot I just spawned 2 seconds before.  Was I mad?  Yes but not at the players they did not choose their spawn point the game did.  Why were they spawned there because the maps are small and it was the only safe place. 

     

    Then there are score streaks.  Do you know how people get high score streaks in CTF?  They run around with the flag.  They are playing the objective and they are being rewarded.  Still think score streaks are a good idea?  If they had to get 12, 15 or 18 kills they would not get the streaks as often.  Most people can string 6 or 8 kills together and with the flag that is all you have to do. 

     

    Then there is the fact that ghost does not work the same way in this game.  UAV or VSAT plus no Ghost means a team of 6 people are going hunting for you.  I again attribute most of this to the map size because people can converge on a spawn quickly dispose of the players then move to the next spawn point.  If someone else on your team can't get another VSAT from the first one than you are playing the game wrong. I have played entire matches of HC CTF where there is always a VSAT or UAV.  Do you know how easy it is to spawn trap? 

     

    Here is the real kicker--- These chages are all changes that the community requested (still not sure who but Treyarch thought the community wanted these things).  Sometimes things are the way they are for a reason and don't need to be changed.

     

    1)  Blops 1 - good medium to large maps -

    Complaint - Not enough action -

    Result:  Blops 2 Small maps which leads to bad spawns, spawn killing and tons of spots to head glitch while spawn killing

     

    2) Blops 1 - kill based kill streaks that don't stack 

    Complaints a) it is too hard to get streaks b) no one is playing the objective

    Result:Blops 2 Score streaks - People get extra score for the streaks and are now abusing the objectives.  Of course players still don't go for the objectives because they have streaks to protect.

     

    3) Blops 1 - Ghost was containted blind eye, cold blooded along with Ghost

    Complaint:  Too many campers  -

    Result: Blops 2 Ghost only works when moving.  Result:  People

     

    I have always been of the opinion that small maps mean more spawn killing.  That score streaks were going to back fire and that changing ghost to the way it currenlty functions is a mistake. 

     

    It only takes smart people a few minutes to exploit the weakness in a system it would just maybe be helpful if some of those people worked at Treyarch so the exploits could be identified ahead of time. 

    • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?

      Your point was well written, but I offer a suttle difference between my argument and your response.  Having someone spawn in fornt of you while you're moving to a target and/or location is completely different than posting up with a clear line of site to the spawn area and tagging all whom spawn there.  Add in positioning of teammates to furhter manipulate the spawn location and you get exactly what has made this game less enjoyable.

       

      I enjoy a challenge but when my ability to defend myself is stripped away intentionally, it devalues my view and makes me less likely to further support this product.  I suggest botcotting as a means to have the dev team step up and actually address the real issues ---- Spawn Killing.

       

      As you are correct, if I am moving on a location and someone spawn directly in my path, I will not hesitate to shoot.  But again, that is a showing of the less than briliant development of this game title.

       

      I primarily play HC CTF and use to love Highlack being a small and fast pace game, but now it have become a less than desirable map.

      • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
        MrJDubbs11

        The spawn killing you mention is still a result of the poor map design.  Players are just exploiting what the developers failed to do which is design maps that allow players to spawn safely. 

         

        I can count on one hand the times I was spawn trapped in Blops 1 and apart from being spawn killed by kill streaks I would say the same about being spawn killed.  This is common occurance in this game.  I have not gotten worse and I am still playing with the same group of people.  The map size has changed and thus the amount of spawn killing has increased.

         

        There is a clear difference between the maps in Blops 1 and 2.  To make the maps smaller they have removed the "buffer" zone between the "B" domination point and either "A" or "C".  Now if you move past "B" you have a clear shot into the enemy spawn.  This was never the case in previous games and it is why you are getting spawn killed. 

         

        The "buffer" zone allowed spawn trapping but provided a safe spawn for enemies.  Remember each gametype is about map control.  Proper control is done from a point more than half way on the map (past "B" and more on one side of the map near "A" or "C"). 

         

        If you play CTF than you should know that you need to support the flag carrier.  To do this you need to be in the proper position.  Unfortunatley that means many times you are going to have teammates in a position near the enemy spawn or looking right into the enemy spawn points. 

         

        If you keep having problems go play S&D.  You can't constantly die to spawn killing because you only get one life per round. 

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    Jimmienoman

    Let me interject and add a sense of today's logic.

     

    Why not take a book from the "progressive" soccer moms (and dad's playbook) , lets stop keeping track of points, kills etc. Of course this means that we should just get rid of score streaks, stats, achievements and anything else that an be construed as "judging" a player. Also switch all camos to participation camos so that no one gets left out.

     

    Spawn killing= against rules as it impedes on people's ability to play the game (per 3arc). Ie nothing can be done about it because you die instantly.

     

    Spawn trapping = strategic plays that do not impede on a persons ability to play the game. Ie there are plenty of ways to break it, you just have to overcome a strategic disadvantage.

     

    You ARE going to get beat by a better team/player at times. Stop whining when you do. And by better it could mean skill, tactics, communication or many other things.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?

    I have experienced this myself and come to realize there is a fine line between true spawn killing and just spawn trapping. 

     

    If this was being done in Domination and was actually spawn trapping, then you can contribute it most likely to the other team wanting to cap all 3 flags for 3 min to achieve the "Tripple Cap" title/calling card required as a completed challenge to eventually get the title/calling card of "Domination Master"!  Or, they were just bored and wanting to piss people off and jack up their K/D, LOL!

     

    Does it make it more enjoyable, no...but atleast gives a rhyme or reason to it.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    Necrodox

    Spawn killing is just an aspect of the game, if a team is more skilled than the other then spawn killing will occur.

     

    Spawn trapping is an issue but I have rarely ever seen a team implement a legitimate spawn trap, it happens but it isn't common. These spawn "traps" usually involve the use of guardians being placed on common spawn points which would stun players as they spawn which would hinder their ability to fight back on spawn.

     

    Just because a team is better and pushes the other team in doesn't mean that they're cheating.

     

    What's funny to me is how people complain about spawn killing yet no one thinks to simply run out of the spawn if I am ever caught in my spawn with their team I simply run out (and yes, it really is that simple). If you can't manage to win one gunfight and get out of your spawn then you suck and cannot hold your own. It's a simple as that. Flipping or changing spawns in Black Ops II is surprisingly easy and it baffles me when I read about how people CAN'T simply move out of their spawn.

     

    Sorry bud it's the nature of the beast and there will not be a mass boycott to "fix" this. There is no "fix" for good and bad players. There will be good players and there will be bad players and when you pair the good players with the bad players, the good players will push their spawn and obliterate them.

     

    /end.

    • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?

      Unfortunately, I have to disagree with your response.  When being Spawn Killed, as I described earlier in the post, there is no opportunity to defend yourself, let alone run.  Here read this, I hope this is clear....

       

       

      For instance, when playing CTF on Highjack there is a Trap that leads to Spawn Kills on either end of the ship.  When spawning in the aft of the boat, if the other team is positioned properly - taking away all other spawn points - you will spawn on the port (left) side just outside the door.  If the offender is standing on top of the stairs leading toward the middle of the ship, he/she has a clear and immediate shot for everyone that spawns as soon as they spawn.
 
The person who was doing this Spawn Killed so many, that part way thru he had to change weapons (noticed by the change in the weapon icon post kill).  Playing hard core, it is rather rare and difficult to go on such a string that one would actually run out of ammo when using an SMG.

    • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
      greencoffin72

      Completely disagree.  You are lost in your own thoughts while not comprehending what the OP is stating.

       

      Getting spawn trapped in BO2 doesn't allow you any movement away from the spawn, only quick deaths.  In HC KC, many times have I been spawn trapped to the point where you cannot even step three feet and you are killed immediately.

       

      These instances are other gamers boosting.  Period.

      • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
        starbuckfrack

        greencoffin72 wrote:

         

        Completely disagree.  You are lost in your own thoughts while not comprehending what the OP is stating.

         

        Getting spawn trapped in BO2 doesn't allow you any movement away from the spawn, only quick deaths.  In HC KC, many times have I been spawn trapped to the point where you cannot even step three feet and you are killed immediately.

         

        These instances are other gamers boosting.  Period.

        Sorry you are wrong.

         

        On of the moderators named Mattks already said that Spawn KILLING was not bannable but just  poor gameplay.

         

        Spawn Trappin still gives players a chance to get away.

         

        Mattks stated that if you find yourself knifing someone as they spawn you need to step back. Then he said they handle all reports on a case by case basis.

         

        Remember when Mattks was in charge of banning players ?

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    starbuckfrack

    Spawn killing is an offense and would get taken care of if you reported them in game instead of spent time crying on the forum.

     

    spawn trapping is not.

     

    Threatening a boycott will do nothing except maybe get this thread deleted.

  • Re: Ban Boosting/Cheating but not Spawn Killing/Trapping...  Aren't they all the same?
    Foxhound-Pro

    The above is correct to a degree.

     

    "Spawn trapping" is a natural progression of objective game modes when one team is winning.

     

    "Spawn killing" is the part where it can all go sidways. If the enemy has engineered the match to force a death on you without your ability to retaliate at all, then report them after the match if you sustain the entire match. If you leave, then it is proper to still report them.

     

    Foxhound-Pro | Chief Forum Moderator

    Black Ops, Modern Warfare 3, & Black Ops II