33 Replies Latest reply: Mar 26, 2013 3:47 AM by JASEFC1878 RSS

Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...

"Put faith in the in-game system" I almost fell off my chair laughing at this.  So does this system prioritize based off how many people report someone for cheating/hacking?  If it does then obviously more people need to be aware of what cheaters/hackers actually look like in-game so they know when to hit that report button.

 

I caught two guys obviously lag glitching/switching in this game. Theater recorded it (LOL) I am rendering it to video and posting it on youtube.

 

I want to post this video here so everyone can see what lag glitching/switching actually is, and when they should hit the report button. This is not a video which shows how to do any cheats or hacks. That would be against policy, and I don't really have any idea how they accomplished this, or if treyarch/activision could detect it.

 

I will block out all names in the video. Therefore it won't be a "name and shame" video which for no good reason you moderators don't seem to like. Although you forget that people will be less likely to hack if they know their name will be dragged through the mud for it, you seem to like protecting them. 

 

Will this still video/discussion get blocked and locked by the forum moderators?

 

With your crude sense of what should be allowed on the forums, how do we go about making the community aware of what hackers actually look like so more people can report them and put a stop to this garbage?

 

Thanks!

-splyke

  • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...

    I want to see it hurry up with the video

  • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...

    Yes! i saw the "put faith in the ingame report system" comment too! what a load of ****!! you can report people til the cows come home and nothing happens!!! HOWEVER! if you showcase cheaters or glitchers on a popular youtube channel like a few of the big commentaters have done then they get banned straight away!!

     

    The reason for this???

     

    Its just a big PR excercise!!! they dont care about helping out the gameplay, they care about having a good image so people keep buying this ****!!!

     

    If someone cheats on you in game and you whinge on here or report it in game the nobodyt heres about it except you! the little guy, they dont give a **** about the little guy...

     

    however if someone cheats and it gets put on a big youtube channel, they then ban them, the youtuber then makes another video saying something like "it worked they got banned, thank you trayarch blah blah blah" and they suddenly seem like the knight in shining armour!!

  • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...
    ChestSplittah

    If you block the names and it is merely showing the reaction caused by lag switching. First off from the victims point of view. Though theater isn't the best way to prove it, if it showing the actually freeze then I don't see a problem. It's still up to Commandante though.

  • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...
    ladylucina

    This is in no disrespect to the moderators on this forum ok. But I am seriously so mad when they say "report them in game"... I have reported so many people and NOTHING has been done. and this was nearly 2 months ago since i started reporting. We would not want a name and shame on here IF something was done when you actually report them in game.

  • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...
    BukLau101

    I haven''t seen this much cheating/glitching/boosting since MW2, the only thing that might come close was the rampant boosting in MW3 infected but overall I think there is more cheating in blops 2 than any other COD since MW2.

    • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...
      crosby85

      I have seen plenty on this game.... Would like to know where I could find this video to have a look. I gotta say that I think the moderators are moderating the wrong people when all that could be done is a cheaters name to be known to the community and therefore would not enter a game with such person.

      • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...
        phxs72

        Liable suits can be rather expensive which is why you are not allowed to name and shame both yourself and Activision would be on the hook for it.  And while you may feel that your evidence is rock solid, a good lawyer likely would be able to confuse a judge that is unfamilar with the subject matter and leave you stuck with a sizeable judgement against you.  I'm sure that the moderators are just as frustrated that these cheaters are out there but they have a responsibility to protect their company from legal action.  That is why you cannot name and shame on the forum but you do have tools available to report cheaters which if confirmed to be cheating through the process that Activision uses do get dealt with.  See all of the "I got banned for no reason" threads that pop up here every week which I'm sure is just a small representation of the number of bans being issued.

        • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...
          crosby85

          You Americans and your lawsuits lmao.... nobody in the UK would ever take legal action against someone for naming and shaming them for cheating on a game.... I bet you lot would sue someone cheating on monopoly!!

        • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...

          .....What world do you live in?

           

           

          No case would EVER be brought for "naming and shaming" anyone in any online game. 

           

           

          Please reference legitimate "cases" if you are going to spout this nonsense.  I'll guarantee you don't have any proof of a case: where a person cheated ingame, got video recorded, named and shamed (not using personal real life info..but naming and shaming their online profile), and a case was filed...and won or even went infront of any judge.  Wont/doesn't happen.  

           

           

          When you create an online ID, you are giving permission and authorization for whatever you do to be displayed to the online community. 

           

           

          I just can't believe how ridiculous your thought process of "suing for naming and shaming" is....

      • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...

        me: CROSBY85 IS A GLITCHER AND A BOOSTER! I SAW HIM WITH MY OWN EYES, BUT THE THEATRE DIDN'T RECORD THE MATCH!

         

        you: No I didn't you have no proof!

         

        me: Yes you did, I saw you! It's not my fault the Theatre didn't record that match!

         

        you: ****-*** you lying *******!

         

        me: No, YOU ****-***!

         

        etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam

         

        ^^THIS is why they don't allow name-and-shame threads on the forums.

         

        Not only would the forums be flooded with false accusations like this but, regardless of whether or not the accusations were false or true, the forums would quickly deteriorate into a complete mess of arguments, bickering and name-calling.

         

        Even if you managed to provide rock-solid, irrefutable evidence, the accused would inevitably deny it and plead innocence.

  • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...

    to the moderator who moved this post...

     

    You are breaking your forum code of conduct yourself by moving this.  You moved this to an improper section of the forums. My post has no relevence on feedback or suggestions for this website. It is a DIRECT question to you about posting in the PS3 forums.

     

    Maybe instead of moving this post to a section of the forum where NO ONE WILL READ IT, you could have simply answered it.? What is the matter? You didn't like the responses that you were getting since people actually agree with me? People want to see these videos.

     

    It is beyond my understanding how you get this job of being a forum moderator, however all you guys do is delete the good posts and leave the trash. You moved this entire thread/discussion that pertains ONLY TO PS3 CHEATING, since I play on the PS3 and it would be a PS3 matter, to a forum discussing your website. This has nothing to do with your website.

     

    What are you trying to hide by moving it here? That you want to shield and protect the cheaters and will do anything to hide this problem from being the public?  I'm going to start writing letters to every single gaming magazine and editor about the terrible service provided on these forums, and it's starts with the nameless moderators who can't answer simple questions, and insult their customer base.  We want to follow the rules, but we also don't want to have posts deleted that are in no way harming anyone or disobeying codes of conduct (however loosely you enforce them).

     

    This belongs in the PS3 section. Maybe instead of just deleting/locking/moving/hiding threads that people actually care about YOU COULD START ANSWERING QUESTIONS.  We are the customers, our money pays your salary, you owe us a response.   People are beyond upset with this game, and pretty soon anyone who works for treyarch/activision is going to be out of a job since customers aren't going to purchase further games.  Maybe, just maybe, some respect given to customers on these forums would save a few of those who you are hemorrhaging.  People do not like being ignored.


    We want the cheaters gone, and we need a medium with which to expose cheaters, and create community awareness of what a cheater looks like, how to identify them, and how to get rid of them

     

    STOP HIDING THIS PROBLEM.

  • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...
    Foxhound-Pro

    I'll write up a response to your initial reaction soon, but I'm going to address us moving it first.


    You've created a suggestion for the site. That being the request for us to cast judgment on and endorse a user generated resource which treads on existing policies and procedures. This will set a precedent for the entire site if we allow you to do this. This is why it is a site issue to us and why we moved it.

     

    You must remember that this is not your forum. You are not at liberty to dictate the rules. That's our job. It's obvious that you disagree with us and that is fine, but your accusations are entirely incorrect and they are seriously marring any chance of us considering this.

     

    The reason as to why it was moved without statement is because these discussions are best left to me. I'll talk to the moderators and have them be a bit more open to communicating when a subject is something that needs my input.

     

    We're not going to fold against your threats of retaliation for simply following through with our set procedures. This is how our forum and many other forums work.

     

    Again, I'll issue a response to the main bulk of the thread, but I do not have a window for you when to expect it.

    • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...

      Foxhound-Pro wrote:

       

      I'll write up a response to your initial reaction soon, but I'm going to address us moving it first.


      You've created a suggestion for the site. That being the request for us to cast judgment on and endorse a user generated resource which treads on existing policies and procedures. This will set a precedent for the entire site if we allow you to do this. This is why it is a site issue to us and why we moved it.

       

      You must remember that this is not your forum. You are not at liberty to dictate the rules. That's our job. It's obvious that you disagree with us and that is fine, but your accusations are entirely incorrect and they are seriously marring any chance of us considering this.

       

      The reason as to why it was moved without statement is because these discussions are best left to me. I'll talk to the moderators and have them be a bit more open to communicating when a subject is something that needs my input.

       

      We're not going to fold against your threats of retaliation for simply following through with our set procedures. This is how our forum and many other forums work.

       

      Again, I'll issue a response to the main bulk of the thread, but I do not have a window for you when to expect it.

       

      You're right this is a community forum and as a community we need to protect those who are contributing to it, and not those who are detracting from it. What does a cheater do to a community?  They are the last people that need protecting.

       

      Like I said before, people are upset with this game, and they come to these forums mainly to vent. They want feedback from the devs/moderators/creators anyone who is going to reach out and tell them "everything is going to be OK".  Or a response like "we banned X cheaters this month" Something.  Anything.  All I see is post after post get locked or deleted that has huge customer support, and nothing but sly comments from yourself and other moderators as to why they locked it.

  • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...
    Foxhound-Pro

    Regarding the point of the topic

     

    Generally speaking I think this is a great idea and place value in this kind of peer offered education. We've also had this kind of content before in some capacity. We weren't hard on it as it was pretty spot on.

     

    That said what you're looking to achieve is complex to a degree and requires more input/output than the others we have seen. I've sat down and thought about this and below are the constructive and objective points that I have. There are only three of them.

     

      1. This informational piece must be written. This is to both comply with our YouTube & Streaming Guidelines and present enough information that it is considered worthwhile by your peers.
      2. This piece would need to be fully educational and professional. It should not be your soapbox to debate the site procedures or attack opposition in any capacity.
      3. The video which compliments the discussion would need to be of several view points and include both live and theater footage. The approach needs to be quite thorough.

     

    I'd reccomend crowdsourcing some of this. People could help to make it a great effort. My only requests would be links to the Black Ops II Security & Enforcement Policy and Dan Amrich's blog posts about reporting.

     

    How far do you plan on taking this. Will you cover one topic or many that concern what is considered cheating?

     

    I'll follow up with a post to squash the issue of name n' shaming in a bit. Same as before. No window.

  • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...
    Foxhound-Pro

    This is a constant battle, but here's the skinny on why we do not allow people to name and shame. To make it easy we'll break it down into bullet points and then expand on them.

     

    We disallow name n' shaming because of the below.

     

      1. Lack of embedded staff.
      2. User failure to provide proof.
      3. Potential for harassment.
      4. Preventing a toxic environment.

     

     

    Lack of embedded staff: While it is true that developers browse this forum, there is unfortunately no embedded staff who have the responsibility, public or not, of fielding user reports of "cheaters." We have the in-game system and it is the primary resource for reporting. You may disagree with this based on your empirical data, but it does not negate the fact that staff are not present for the task.

     

    User failure to provide proof: Many reports from the community surface as written statements that lack evidence or even references to the event occurring. The potential for malicious intent is large in this scenario and we moderators find it threatening to community health. You don't have to take my word for it either. Perform a search and you can find people who come to the boards stating that someone claimed they reported said person for cheating because they lost. It's toxic. The community even questions those who come to the boards to "fess up." People often state that said users are attempting to malign innocent victims. Again, the level of gray is unfortunate and damning.

     

    Potential for harassment: This isn't common, but it does happen. It's also a rather large reason as to why we prohibit name n' shaming. Some people find that they have a need to follow up on someone's report and not only attack the user but question or comment upon their actions. That is harassment via the first party service one uses to engage said peer. That's a distinct violation of said service's TOU and COC. We care about our users, though you may disagree, and do not want our forum to be a platform for someone to possibly hurt themselves and their credibility in the process.

     

    Preventing a toxic environment: In the end we're not only protecting our community, but also taking into account the possible innocence of other users. We moderators do not want to be responsible for creating or allowing a platform to negatively impact someone's experience because of a misguided vigilantism. We care deeply about this community and Call of Duty, but as stewards of but a small portion we must take much into consideration.

     

    The above are our reasons and I hope that I have explained them well. We only ask that users comply with them along side our other governing text.

  • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...

    I think it is the cheaters who are responsible for creating a toxic environment.

     

    Good honest users and members posting up game clips that show cheaters tac insert headshot boosting for instance are IMO doing the community a service, and actually helping to clean up the playing field.

    • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...
      Foxhound-Pro

      COD_WIDOW wrote:

       

      I think it is the cheaters who are responsible for creating a toxic environment.

       

      Good honest users and members posting up game clips that show cheaters tac insert headshot boosting for instance are IMO doing the community a service, and actually helping to clean up the playing field.

      I'm not going to go at this ad nauseum, but good, honest users and members report in-game. That is doing the community a service. That is actually helping to clean up the playing field.

       

      Posting videos of what you describe here does nothing unless the idea of the community creating an echo chamber about how dumb cheaters are is somehow productive. You may want to re-read my post as I cover this. Even if it was possible to report on the forums, then it would be held in a very discreet manner. The idea of "let's drag someone through the mud for justice" is misguided vigilantism and the inklings of toxic behavior. We're not embracing and that is not "good" or "honest." It's predatory and vindictive.

       

      Items like what the OP have suggested and reporting in-game is what we need.

  • Re: Moderators: I want to make a cheating awareness discussion...
    JASEFC1878

    Hi there - what is your youtube account as I would love to see this. I've often suspected people are cheating/boosting but not convinced...