29 Replies Latest reply: Nov 4, 2013 12:34 PM by The_Tickler RSS

How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.

The_Tickler

A few of you probably remember my incessant criticism of few specific control-mechanics last go-round with Black Ops 2. I won't put in nearly the effort for Ghosts, but I want to list 3 specific control-mechanics for the wiimote that in my opinion are broken and need attention from the CoD: Ghosts developers.



#1: ADS camera-lock (this one is so important that I will refuse to purchase this game until this mechanic is repaired)


Black Ops 2 enforces a camera-lock every time a player aims down sight. This camera-lock releases once the ADS animation has completed and the cursor is moved an arbitrary distance from the initial ADS cursor location. This creates a camera stop-start effect that drastically inhibits smooth following of a target during the ADS animation. To fix this the camera must smoothly and predictably transition between hip-fire-camera-speed and ADS-camera-speed just as it does for dual-analog players. The last patch for BO2 actually addressed this issue (but did not fix it) by putting an invisible and arbitrary box on the screen of which ADSing outside of would cause a smooth transition  If this box is to exist in Ghosts the player must be able to reduce it in size to the point of it disappearing, so that a smooth transition occurs anywhere the player puts his cursor on the screen.



#2: Sway


Wiimote players have 2 sources of sway, one that the game introduces artificially, and one that comes from the player's natural hand-movements. These 2 sources conflict and results in a sway that is different from the gentle back and forth movement that dual-analog players see. Wiimote players see what I can best describe as a Gaussian vibration. This makes hitting repeated shots of small targets at range much more difficult for a wiimote player than it is for a dual-analog player. In my opinion the artificial sway that the game introduces should be eliminated, leaving only the player's natural hand-movements to create sway. There will be an exception made for scoped weapons which I will address in the next section.



#3: Sniping in General


There are 2 main mechanical problems with wiimote sniping, and they both have to do with the ADS process. The first is the camera-lock that takes place each time a wiimote player aims down sight. The second is: not only does the camera lock in place during the ADS animation, but so does the cursor. A wiimote player is not able to make any adjustment whatsoever to his aim during the entire half-second sniper rifle ADS animation. To "quick-scope" a player literally must guess where his opponent will be one-half-second in the future. To fix this the camera must smoothly transition from hip-fire-camera-speed to ADS-camera-speed and the cursor must be allowed to float freely during the entire ADS animation. The ADS behavior must work in this way even if it visually looks strange to casual observers (it will make since to the player actually playing).


Finally, a formula must be written that magnifies the players natural hand-movements in real-time to create sway, rather than adding a second artificial source of sway. This should eliminate the Gaussian vibration I spoke of in section 2 and will be more fair to dual-analog players who would still have to deal with the game's artificial introduced sway.



A final note...


At one point for Black Ops 2 Treyarch attempted to abate wiimote players complaints by simply increasing aim-assist for wiimotes. This is entirely the wrong approach (and is lazy). In my opinion if a wiimote player is playing on a high-response, low input-lag monitor, aim-assist is completely unnecessary and only inhibits predictable cursor and camera movements (for MW3 and BO1 I actually played on a CRT television rather than a 55" HD TV because input response was so superior). A small amount of aim-assist may be needed for players playing on modern televisions with measurable input lag, but aim-assist should still be limited.

 

*Addition made 9/29/13*

I believe this is of interest to Ghosts developers so I'm adding it to the original post here. When physics teachers desire to show an example of true chaos they will often use the Double Pendulum as an example. Even in completely synthetic Computer Simulations, much like the digital representation of Pi, there is no discernible pattern. This is essentially what wiimote sway looks like when we turn our cursor sensitivity up and is the reason that wiimote players have difficulty hitting successive shots of small targets at range.

  • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
    The_Tickler

    More detail on the (personally loathed) camera-lock mechanic:

    http://community.callofduty.com/message/414208575#414208575

  • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
    GermanicMexican

    I would like to see an increase in Turning Speed, seriously the max turning speed the Wiimote has is way but way too slow.

    • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
      Incredible_Mr

      Agreed. Have mine on max 40 and it feels too slow

    • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
      WiimotesRus02

      If it works like it did in MW3 they don't need to do anything..

      • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
        GermanicMexican

        I still think it needs to be faster. I mean Dual Analogs can do a 360 turn 4x faster than Wiimote users.

      • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
        R0BL0X1234

        Why play on Wii or WiiU

        • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
          bughunt

          For the same simple reason that you would want to play on PlayStation or Xbox or PC - personal choice.

           

          Those personal choices may include a platforms strengths, features, control scheme, exclusives, first party titles or anything that you deem a priority for your gaming pleasure.  But judging an individual or community for their choice of gaming machine is immature and an indicator of a very unhappy gamer.

           

          Choosing a platform simply because it's "what the cool kids play" also falls into that category.  That could greatly limit your gaming happiness.  Choose the platform that carries what is most appealing to you in terms of gaming enjoyment.  Choose more than one if your wallet allows and cherry pick games to get the best of all worlds.

           

          More importantly, let others have their choices and don't ridicule, put down or insult other gamers for their choice of platform and/or game.

           

          Game...and let game.

           

          I hope I have answered that question clearly enough.

          • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
            R0BL0X1234

            II'm just saying that to me the idea of controlling it with a wii remote seems weird. just the idea by aiming with a control seems difficult and seems like it would be un appealing.  I get it on with because I tried on a ds and it's difficult but possible, but with aiming and playing 100% with a remote that acts to every move seems problematic! I'm not judging! I just want to know how people are able to do it! and why they seem to like it so much.

            • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
              MajorStains

              This debate divides every gamer I know.

              Being a huge fan of the Wiimote (in the Zapper), I am in a massive minority over at our clans forum.

              When I left the PS2 six years ago, my dexterity on the DA thumb sticks was probably above average.

              Then my wife got me a Wii for my Birthday, and although I loved MarioKart. I knew that when I first picked up a Wiimote to play a FPS, something had changed for ever. Friends who play Xbox/PS would come over and swear at me for owning such a crime against gaming! They would yell about the trigger being wrong...blah,blah,blah. I would go and play CoD on their DA controllers and spend the night shooting at the sky or my feet.

              For me, the Wiimote is intuitive. It's as simple as pointing a gun, and while one thumb allows me to run around the map, the other thumb easily swaps out weapons/ reloads and the rest. Get your turn speed and dead zone sorted and you are good to go. Easy as a nade kill on Shipment!!!

               

              I now have a PS4 on preorder as I was so disappointed that Dice didn't bring their game to Wii U.

              But I have a strong feeling I will end up sticking with CoD titles on the Wii U, as I can't imagine keeping up with the gameplay with my old man thumbs otherwise.

              It is a shame that not many other games on the Wii U support the Wiimote.

              But I guess it didn't take me too long to adjust to the gamepad, with slower games like AC3 and Lego City Undercover.

               

              In summary, and in my opinion, the Wiimote has been my favourite type of controller to date.

              (But maybe not as much fun as the 'Z' and 'X' keys when playing Daley Thompson on my old ZX Spectrum)

            • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
              The_Tickler

              I highly recommend giving the wiimote a chance. Especially if you are playing on a CRT television or a high-response computer monitor (low input-lag is very helpful for performance).

               

              The wiimote has some of the same advantages that a mouse has with FPS's. Mainly you're able to commit a given cursor move to muscle-memory, so you can acquire and track targets much more quickly and accurately than you can with a short analog thumb-stick.

               

              You also get the satisfaction of knowing this is being done without the use of aim-assist. I actually recommend turning it off for wiimotes.

               

              The tough part with the wiimote is getting your settings right. You'll literally be modifying variables for months and never feel satisfied.

  • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
    T-boss

    yes, have wiimote working out of the box.

     

    ps. town down wiiU DA aimassist below that of the other versions(unless the other versions also have noticably toned down aimassist). the aimassist needs to be balanced with wiimote no aimassist. wiiU MLG should favor wiimote but avridge players should split about evenly skillwise. If MLG is split on wiiU then DA is OP for avridge players. DA should only be OP for noobs.

  • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
    Ronin2012

    You'll upset all the DA players who think they are deadly accurate - when in fact its the controller doing all the work.  wiimote is the only way to play FPS.  The rest is just bullcrap, fake, overpowered, over assisted garbage

  • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
    Devaleo

    Give me MW3 Wii's controls at a higher framerate, and I'm good.

  • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
    The_Tickler

    A few of you have mentioned MW3 when referencing how wiimote controls should "feel". While MW3 controls weren't perfect, they were a slight improvement over the Black Ops games. The ADS camera-lock occured in MW3, but the lock released somewhat predictively at the end of the ADS animation, not by moving the cursor an arbitrary distance like in Black Ops 2. What I want is for the camera to smoothly transition between hip-fire-turn-speed and ADS-turn-speed, as it does when ADSing with the cursor at the peripherals of the screen in BO2. This smooth transition is important to get the best "feel". It is my opinion that no human has the frame-by-frame reaction times or wrist dexterity necessary to handle the current lock and release ADS mechanic we have. A smooth transition is a must.

    • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
      like2nap03

      The_Tickler wrote:

       

      A few of you have mentioned MW3 when referencing how wiimote controls should "feel". While MW3 controls weren't perfect, they were a slight improvement over the Black Ops games. The ADS camera-lock occured in MW3, but the lock released somewhat predictively at the end of the ADS animation, not by moving the cursor an arbitrary distance like in Black Ops 2. What I want is for the camera to smoothly transition between hip-fire-turn-speed and ADS-turn-speed, as it does when ADSing with the cursor at the peripherals of the screen in BO2. This smooth transition is important to get the best "feel". It is my opinion that no human has the frame-by-frame reaction times or wrist dexterity necessary to handle the current lock and release ADS mechanic we have. A smooth transition is a must.

      This.  That's the biggest problem with the wii remote.  Having to jerk the controller to break the ADS lock.  This throws you off target and then you must reattain the target while using the ADS sensitivity.  Thankfully I am quite good at this, but it's almost a definite "you're dead" when confronted with more than one DA player and that aim assist they have unless they are both right in front of you. 

      • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
        WiimotesRus02

        like2nap03 wrote:

         

         

        That's the biggest problem with the wii remote.  Having to jerk the controller to break the ADS lock.  This throws you off target and then you must reattain the target while using the ADS sensitivity.

        I never had any problem with this playing any of the previous cod games to BO2. Each game needed slightly different settings, which took me all of probably 3 or 4 games to get used to. To get the settings any where near as good for BO2 took weeks, and hours of practice to get used to and even resulted in my hands aching trying to control the swaying, the sudden dips to the ground when turning etc. I've got used to them now to some extent, but they're still cr@p. And the single most annoying thing for me is having more than one controller for one game. I just can't get my head round that, why oh why do we have DA's on a unique console with a unique controller? Absolutely mind boggling. I think it was more for the devs developing and testing the game because they don't have the skill for the wiimote..

  • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
    The_Tickler

    What happens when you have two independent sources of sway? Chaos!!!

     

    demonstrated with science:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U39RMUzCjiU

  • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
    The_Tickler

    I'm going to bump this topic from time to time until a developer comments. #1 really is a make or break issue for me. I believe a lot of issues wiimote players have are misattributed. Fixing ADS-camera-lock will quiet most if not all wiimote complaints.

    • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
      WiimotesRus02

      I think we'll be ok with activision, if MW3 is anything to go by, and all the previous for that matter, it will work as it should. Treyarch just made a huge mistake with the new console on BO2, it would be suicide if activision didn't address this. I also believe connection will be fairer too, not perfect, but playable. I could still do well with 2 bars in MW3, but there will always be the untouchables..

    • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
      MajorStains

      I think they should add an option that allows you to pistol whip those 'idiot team-killing trolls' that flashbang you, and shoot your betties for an entire match, ruining it for everyone!

      You just smash the butt of the gun in their face, so everyone knows the person with the nosebleed is a cheating loser.

       

      My Wiimote setup seems fine on Black Ops 2 (turn speed could be better),

      most problems I have are purely connection based.

      (You know its bad when the enemy has a Warthog, VTOL, and Dogs up before you have even seen anyone)

       

      In game texting is hideous too.

  • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
    Padiego

    JUST MAKE WIIMOTE THE SOLE CONTROLLER OPTION. WIIMOTE MASTER RACE, ALL INFIDELS SHALL SUFFER. MWUAHAHAHAHA!

     

    But seriously, no AA on Wiimote, reduce AA on DA, make turning faster for wiimote, fix the god damn ADS, stop the gun flinching/"getting stuck" issue and i'll be happy.

    #WiimoteMasterRaceAtLeastUntilMouseSupportIsAdded

  • Re: How to make wiimote players happy. Forever.
    The_Tickler

    I understand that some wiimote gameplay has leaked. Can anyone confirm that any of the suggestions I've made have been implemented, particularly the elimination of ADS camera-lock?