22 Replies Latest reply: Nov 20, 2013 8:12 PM by tensor32 RSS

Bold move or death knell?

Kothar44

Wall of text warning

 

After viewing a thread that shows Ghosts currently having under 200k online at any time on both the PS3 and PS4 combined, I began to wonder why.

 

I know a lot of old school COD fans lost interest with blops 2 due to tiny maps all with 3 channels, sight lines that meant anything longer range than an SMG was nearly pointless, headless chicken score fests since even if you ran headlong into an lmg nest you could run away and live due to hit detection failure which multiplied with fast load outs and perks, dlc that seemed catered to a per-pubescent crowd with it's cartoonish colors, maps on places a 13 year old would like to spend time after school such as skate parks, paintball parks, ski slopes, a rock star stage etc etc.  Heck even the camo was neon and made hiding impossible and let's not forget reticules like bacon and scarecrows.  Perhaps the "kiddie" tell all was the easiest QSing of any COD.

 

In addition to the "design" of blops 2, we had lag issues that were reported for the life of the game, freezes, the helicopter sounds, hit detection and matchmaking issues that were never addressed.

 

A lot of the old schoolers complained about these things and when their calls to Activision fell on deaf ears, they left the game or drastically cut back their play time.

 

Then we got Ghosts.  Larger maps, longer sight lines, maps having areas where different gun classes dominate, sniping is a valid option again, tactical movement is rewarded and headless rushing is punished, the color palette is comparatively subdued.  It looked like Activision decided to again cater to the more adult/tactical players, while including Crank for the kiddies.

 

Unfortunate carry overs are the lag, matchmaking and the worse spawns I can remember.

 

Now the forums are filled with the young ones complaining about snipers, (well, really about anyone not sprinting with marathon the entire match) about not being able to run headlong into a stream of fire from an lmg without dying, about having to run more than 2 seconds after re-spawning before being in a fire fight again because the maps are too big, about not being able to shoot anything at max line of sight with a smg or pistol.

 

So, did Activision decide to gear the game more towards the adult/tactical crowd in hopes that slowing down the pace would help with the lag issues and probably more important get the adults with a credit card buying DLC content again (apparently little johnny could get mom to spring $60 for a game, but not another $50 for DLC since DLC sales were way off from previous titles in blops 2).

 

If that was Activisions intent, were they too late?  It appears as if the old schoolers have not come back in strong numbers (perhaps waiting on the sidelines like a number of my friends, perhaps done with COD like a like number of my friends) and while the old schoolers are not back, the kiddies that can no longer QS, trick shot, run headless and survive a tactical player firing from cover are quitting this "stupid game" in droves.

 

Whether the series has indeed moved the focus back to the tactical player and can draw them back, or if they are going to have to switch back to the kiddie corp in blops 3 will be interesting to see.

 

More importantly, whether the series can come back from under 200k online right after release will determine if the COD series is viable going forward.

 

Your thoughts?

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    NaTuReS_FrEaK

    while yes they have killed off their highest paying consumers, they will be back, because this game is different and they will take notice, and TBH on this game if there is lag it is the users fault not the games.

     

     

    BO3- well this hasnt been announced yet so will have to wait and see, but if this is the next game then i think this will have even lower numbers of players then GHOST here are my reasons

     

    KIDS- they will think the next game will be just like GHOST so they will not comeback

     

    ADULTS- treyarch makes kiddie games, so the adults will stay away

     

    only the diehards who think COD can never have any problems will continue to buy and this number is quickly dissolving

    • Re: Bold move or death knell?
      Yppecaye_the_Dogged

      NaTuReS_FrEaK wrote:

       

      while yes they have killed off their highest paying consumers, they will be back, because this game is different and they will take notice, and TBH on this game if there is lag it is the users fault not the games.

       

       

      BO3- well this hasnt been announced yet so will have to wait and see, but if this is the next game then i think this will have even lower numbers of players then GHOST here are my reasons

       

      KIDS- they will think the next game will be just like GHOST so they will not comeback

       

      ADULTS- treyarch makes kiddie games, so the adults will stay away

       

      only the diehards who think COD can never have any problems will continue to buy and this number is quickly dissolving

      Maybe it's time for them to branch off the title and cut their losses.  That is, make different but concurrent releases each catering to each relevant demographic.  We can have CoD: WaW 2.0 for the adults; and CoD: Sponge BoB, aka Rambo Bob (where you can run around as Bob and shoot ray guns at Barney in Disneyland.)

       

      Total sales of the different titles  might not exceed sales at its peak, but at least you save the title from inevitable oblivion.  (Ghosts and 1 obscure PC game for $5 at Big Lots come July, anyone?)

       

      CoD is, what, 7-8 years old.  There's going to be inevitable fatigue.  Actually, it's quite a surprise it's lasted this long considering the game's really been the same for the same 7-8 years.

      • Re: Bold move or death knell?
        NaTuReS_FrEaK

        while yes the game has been the same for the past 7-8 years you are forgetting one big factor as to why this game has even lasted that long

         

        addiction and the rush it provides

         

        ADDICTION- have you ever played ANGRY BIRD or JETPACK JOYRIDE try them then you will know what im talking about

         

        RUSH- the reason little kiddies wanted small maps, is because when you run into four enemies at once and mow them down that rush is what they play for, the rush to get that Nuclear, the rush to run into the enemies base and kill 6 enemies then hide and give your heart a breather, the rush to destroy the entire enemy team and laugh

         

         

        unfortunately not a lot of players can experience this rush so they rage at the game---- can this be called a rush also?

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    ghamorra

    CoD has put itself in a lose/lost situation.

     

    They've basically been telling people that rushing like an idiot is the only way to play. They even marketed Ghosts this way by almost exclusively highlighting the fast paced aspects of this game. I remember watching the announcement of Ghosts and thinking, "here's another Black Ops II" only to find out that it's highly balanced; of course you'd never it was balanced because if you want to rush you actually have to think about rushing rather than going balls to wall right out of the spawn.

     

    Another reason Ghosts is getting a bad wrap is because it's so successfully balanced that people are finding out they're not nearly as good as they think they are. I've been owned by rushers and campers alike, each time I'm going back to the drawing board and creating a new gameplan. But others stop at getting owned and blame the game not willing to acknowledge the fault is their own.

     

    Finally, I think this game is great. That being said there are huge improvements that can still be made which is a huge compliment because Ghosts is great and can still get better. The lag is much less of an impact than previous game but I understand that each person is having their own experience. Spawns can also be improved but I actually am not like most and freaking out over it because the maps are a vastly different design and with that I can understand spawn logic having problems but I do also expect it to be fixed.

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    Kothar44

    Two excellent responses to start.  Both are right on the money and since they come from different angles, I wish I could give you both a "correct answer" reward.

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    TRU11

    with this being a transition year between current and next gen its hard to actually get a clear idea on where cod stands.

     

    personally this is 1 of the better cod since WAW and the balance and such is great.

     

    but i have to say that for the first time i decided to buy BF4 and im really hooked to that game.

     

    what made me take a step back from cod where a few things:

    1 the spawns are the worst ive seen in a cod game ever. major issue for me.

    2 im still suffering from instant kills and such. whats on me screen aint what i see in the replay. anoying as hell

    3 lack of modes. been playing HCHQ and HCDOM since MW and neither of them are in this freakin game. really pissed off about this.

    4 community. as an objective mode type of player nothing annoys me more then the selfish community we have today. stats really ruined this game because so many seems obssessed by them.

     

    now i will consider cod if they solve the spawns and connections issues and add some classic modes back.

    the ps4 might be the awnser but im not so sure.

     

    i like what they did but still spawns and connection are a major buzz kill.

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    Yppecaye_the_Dogged

    Kothar44 wrote:

     

    If that was Activisions intent, were they too late?  It appears as if the old schoolers have not come back in strong numbers (perhaps waiting on the sidelines like a number of my friends, perhaps done with COD like a like number of my friends) and while the old schoolers are not back, the kiddies that can no longer QS, trick shot, run headless and survive a tactical player firing from cover are quitting this "stupid game" in droves.

     

    This actually crossed my mind before reading your post.  I had a problem with BOII's cartoonish aspects as well.  I'd like to reward them for trying in Ghosts to get away from that.  But, it seems, they unwittingly and foolishly over did it. 

     

    Another poster mentioned in another thread a few days back that the big maps are the result of past complaints about small maps.  This may be so.  But I answered, and quite frankly am still wondering, why couldn't they, with a little creativilty and imagination, created mid to large maps (BOII standard) that would have catered to all styles.

     

    I mean, they did it before in WaW (e.g., Airfield and Cliffside), why is it so difficult to do it now.  The Gen. Project Magager in charge should be fired (I own ATV stocks.) 

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    Printerstand

    I think the disconnect comes from the console audience.. I can see where they wanted to go with the pacing of gameplay and the art style they chose......but plain and simply, it's hard to be a more "serious" game without raising the learning curve. Lets be honest, the console demographic is much MUCH more soaked in 11yr olds, teenagers just playing this an hour before they leave somewhere, and older people who play an hour before they join their wife/girlfriend/kids/family. These people liked COD because it was easy to play. Why do you think TDM has been THE game mode in all the COD's? It's the easiest to learn.

    I think now with Ghosts, all the very casual players are starting to leave because it's just more than they want to learn......

     

    I don't know about how the PC version is doing, but after playing Ghosts I think it's a much more competitive game, and much less of an arcade shooter. I think thus is better but I can see why people are starting to leave.........I used to play TDM when I wanted to mess around.......now even that is serious.

     

    Not wanting to learn a game doesn't make you a noob, it just means you don't feel like doing all that work for a video game you play 1 hour a day maybe.

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    Kothar44

    Even more good stuff here.  Thanks to all who have contributed so far. 

     

    Something I was thinking about after the OP and that I have seen included by some of you is maybe the answer is a game and probably developer for the kiddie/arcade style and another for the adult/tactical style rather than trying to make one game that can make everyone happy.  Assuming it was 3arch for the kids and IW for the adults, I could easily wait two years between new titles, especially if quality DLC content became available to keep things fresh and adding new challenges.  I'm not sure how good this would work with the kids though.  In a part of your life where you are "and a half" years old, 2 years is practically a lifetime and without the ads for the next release starting within 6 months of the current release, I'm not sure you could keep them interested.

     

    I'm also not sure how Activision would deal with having 2 games at once to keep supported (if we can call what Activision does "support".)

    • Re: Bold move or death knell?
      TRU11

      TBH i went back to MW before MW2 came out and did the same with MW2 before MW3 came out.

       

      sadly i decided to call it a day an play the likes of GTA5 online, madden , last of us and such before getting Ghost.

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    Highwayman0226

         Very well thought out and written post.  I personally like this title more than I liked BO2.  The lack of HC game modes is kind of disappointing, and you get the occasional Kill Confirmed where the whole other team is hiding in corners, but the maps fit my playstyle better than the previous two titles.

     

         The lag is pretty bad at times, and the spawns can be atrocious.  A guy spawned right next to me in the middle of the map last night, with his gun right next to my head.  Seriously, the barrel was inside my character's head.

     

         I think the biggest thing keeping people away from CoD though is the lag factor.  There were probably hundreds of threads and YouTube videos between MW3 and BO2 concerning no time to react, bullets going around cover, firing 8 bullets into a guys chest and not even getting hitmarkers for it, unloading a clip into a guys back and he turns around and shoots you with a single bullet and you die, etc., etc.  The fact that Treyarch did very little to support BO2 doesn't help either.  Splitting parties, not being able to join friends, the "reconnecting to party" screen, sound bugs, hackers, etc...yeah, As you said, the ENTIRE life of the game, these things continued.

     

         It's a shame, cause this game is made a lot better than it predecessor.  If this is the end of CoD, BO2 killed it, not Ghosts.

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    Capt_Teabagger

    I like Ghost so far.  I have my moments of being utterly frustrated by it but ooh well.  As for the low numbers on people playing online.  Think some of that as to do with people waiting to get the next gen console of there choice and then buying the game(s) they want for it.  And skipping having to do the online upgrade for an extra fee.  Then you add in people are on tighter budgets these days. So some of the kiddies who might of been playing day 1 are now being forced to wait until x-mas before they get the game.  But I would think that the utter mess they made of blop2  also took away some CoD fans.  Taking away HC FFA doesn't help with retaining players who only enjoyed playing that game mode. I know I was disappointed it isn't in Ghost.

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    Schoat333

    Why bother debating all of this? Its just a game. Play it or don't play it. Its all up to you.

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    xxphenomen4xx

    I think it's more about adaptation.   Adaptation to an up and coming battlefield 4 market, and the realization that big maps are  possible with current technologies!?  I've been so wanting to go and check out battlfield again, but to spendy a risk when it's right here, and even better than I've experienced in the past!?  If big maps are possible, without lag issues,  then it's only a matter of spawning to populate it properly, right?  I think cod has it right so far, because I'd rather be seeing people right off, rather than going on some wild goose chase all the time!?  Spawns are rough, but with change comes adaptation.  Anyways,  I think its a step in the right direction.   You've got the small maps off the past smashed into the big maps of today, who couldn't be happy about map size!?

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    RAMBONER

    Really good thread here.  I cant really add much without repeating what others have said and I agree with everyone thats posted haaa.  .  Ghamorras post above is as perfect an explanation as I have read anywhere. 

     

    Good stuff.

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    Svennyblaze

    Not sure where youre getting your numbers from. Every time I log in to ps3 there are well over 200k people on. I have never seen it below this number. Cant comment on ps4 numbers dont have one yet.

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    Kothar44

    In closing, I'd like to thank everyone for the well thought out contributions.  Almost every post made me think along new lines, or in new lights, or wish I had considered their input in my OP.

     

    There is of course no single best answer in this case, but since I need to select one, I am going to go with the post I thought summed up my thoughts the best and that was the one that said all posts were good and he had nothing new to add.  By selecting that, others that stumble on the post will need to open and read all the wonderful input in order to understand.

     

    Thanks again everyone.  I wish I could hand out a pile of "best answer" awards.

  • Re: Bold move or death knell?
    tensor32

    I'll say that I wasn't a fan of this game at first but gave it a chance and got use to the game. Unfortunately this game does not keep my attention long like previous games, but that's because the previous games have progressively gotten worse, so I've gotten tired hoping the next game would be better. This game seems to have gotten better but they seem to have made the game too complicated with squad members that need to be leveled up individually and 35 different perks. If they kept it simple like COD 4 MW or COD: WAW, this game would be great.

     

    Besides the the developers making the game more complicated than usual, the spawn system needs to be fixed, there still seems to be the issue of firing more bullets to kill the enemy but only a few bullets can kill you (this could be caused by lag but who knows). I can't say I'll be playing this game long enough to see if they fix these issues as we all know, support to fix issues in the game rarely happens. So i'll most likely be playing FIFA 14, Dust 514, or Assassin's Creed III or IV.

     

    As for the amount of players actually playing the game, it seems to fluctuate weekly, but on those weekends with double XP I'm sure the number of players will be high as usual.