19 Replies Latest reply: Dec 20, 2013 7:14 PM by ghamorra RSS

MSBS nerf unwarranted

AlteredVista

The MSBS wasn't overpowered. 1) I hardly see anyone use the gun. It seems to fit the niche that it should. 2) The gun was already garbage at longer ranges. Now you are going to make it near useless. 3) How is the MSBS overpowered but snipers aren't? I just don't understand that logic.

 

You are going to ruin guns just like treyarch if you continue to follow this path. Black Ops 2 had the worst patch support in any game. All it did was listen to a small minority of players that don't represent your fanbase. I can guarantee there is no data to support that the MSBS was unfair in comparison to other ARs or any weapons for that matter. Treyarch did the same thing claiming that the nerfs were due to data, but in reality it was only to cater to MLG demands so the gun might not be banned. That's exactly why the FAL was nerfed in Black Ops 2 and I'm sure that's why you nerfed the MSBS.

 

Right now I'm barely effected and it's only one gun. I think it was a terrible decision no doubt, but it's the whole idea of it that scares me. Black ops 2 had so many nerfs that tons of great guns become boring to use and random and it just made things like Snipers become more and more overpowered. Please stop listening to the complainers .001% of your community and changing things that affects hardly anyone.

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    Sannji

    The reason you think it wasn't that OP before was because you weren't any good with it.

    Just like the FAL, this gun is way OP in the hands of someone who can aim. You can one burst people from a considerable distance with just a red dot.

     

    The reason snipers are strong is because they're slow as fck, and recoil is a horrible biatch if you miss your first shot, not to mention you have no peripheral when you're scoped and pulling up scope is much slower than an AR.

     

    MSBS needed to be nerfed. It was even allowed in competitive play because of how strong it was. Just because you suck with it doesn't mean there were people who were owning like crazy with it.

     

    BTW guns will keep getting nerfed in this game, because TTK is so quick.

    • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
      Megadog14

      So because someone does well the gun is OP? In that case we better replace all the guns with nerf blasters, people have done well with all of them! Oh, the horror! The horror!

    • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
      AlteredVista

      Not good with the gun? There is a good chance I'm a better player than you. I have a 3.8 kd in ghosts on my main account (IDYB) and 5.9 on a new account I just made (only 50 games but still) 100% solo. I do good with most guns in the game and MSBS I had at least a 3 kd. My worst AR is actually the SA-805 and that is still about 2.8. I didn't suck with it or ask for a buff. I simply didn't feel it stood out as something overpowered. The reason I didn't use it is because I was more comfortable with other weapons. Fact is the MSBS is not nearly as good as the Type 95 was in MW3 on launch and not even close to the Cod 4 M16 or MW2 Famas. I like powerful guns of different types so the game has variety.


      IMO the MSBS was already balanced due to their being a decent time between bursts. That gives me time to cause the MSBS user to flinch or completely kill him. All the ARs tend to kill fast and none of the rest have to worry about time between bursts. The SMGs have a huge mobility advantage. LMGs and Marksmen have better range. Snipers have terrific range and have massive autoaim. Are there worse weapons than MSBS? Of course, however MSBS doesn't make you a god against all other playstyles. If you are good with snipers and know how to reload cancel you can shoot them extremely fast. I'm not a sniper and still know how to quickscope effectively. The only weapons I have ever felt are cheap are snipers, but I never came to the forums asking for a nerf. Again, in comparison to other burst weapons in IW's past the MSBS was nothing out of the ordinary. I have used the MSBS since and it's still a decent gun. I just feel it's now terrible at medium-longer ranges. This means players are going to have to be closer to an enemy with the gun now so if anything this nerf might make MSBS users play more campy.

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    eleven1181

    100% agree the msmb was actually pretty weak in its class I tryed it and the Remington, honey badger and ak12 are far superior guns and I love burst and single shot weapons in all cods.

    if any weapons need a nerf it's the snipers

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    Megadog14

    People cant seem to figure out that burst guns are supposed to be more powerful...

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    WhyNoName

    Rather than using your game play to determine how OP the gun was, go to YouTube and watch videos showing the actual statistics of the gun and you will see just why the gun was OP.

     

    The gun, statistically wise, was quite a bit better than any other AR.  Now, the MSBS is more in the pack of the AR class while still rewarding someone who aims with 2 shot kills.  The nerf will take away a bunch of the BS kills the MSBS had previously.  i.e. 2 shot kills to a foot while someone spams the trigger and not aiming properly.

    • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
      Megadog14

      The reason its powerful is because its a burst fire, meaning it has a lower ROF compared to an automatic gun. Now theres no reason to use it over an automatic AR.

      • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
        WhyNoName

        I agree that burst should be powerful.  That is the reason they kept the 2 shot kill to the chest and head.  However, it should not be a 2 shot kill to the foot lol.  MSBS + aiming properly = same gun as before.  People that will now have trouble with the gun are those who do not aim properly.  FYI - burst attachment on most other ARs in the game turn them into a 2 shot kill to chest and head as well via the damage multiplier....

        • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
          ChronoZombie

          The problem is the recoil.  If I aim at the legs I can get three shots on target.  If I aim at the upper chest at medium distance it will be one hit, and I'll be dead before the burst delay allows a second chance.  The MSBS was a lot like a shotgun- if I kill you in one shot, then it's because I got there first.  If I kill you in two shots its because you didn't react fast enough when I failed to kill you.

           

          The gun was self-balanced by having the highest rate of fire within the burst and the slowest rate of fire overall.  I only need two more challenges with that gun, and I was going to use full auto for the lean shots and single fire for the longshots, so I don't really care, but I do think it wasn't necessary to change it because people didn't like being killed by it.  Newsflash, I don't like being killed by anything, so nerf everything.

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    mischaelite

    Black Ops 2 had so many nerfs that the game I bought was not the one one I ended up with and also made me quit playing after a few months.

    I think the way the weapons are now in Ghosts are just fine. It would be a shame to see them change a winning concept. Instead of touching the weapons making Danger Close take up 3 bars instead of four could  maybe be considered.

    • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
      AlteredVista

      That's exactly how I feel about Black Ops 2 weapon balance. My biggest problem with all the nerfs was how inconsistent weapons became in medium ranges. Tac insert + snipers and LMGs became very overpowered in the game. In a 1v1 scenario if you pulled up with an SMG in medium range there is a chance not one bullet would hit them. The only way you could be sure you would hit at all is if you burst fired the SMG, but then you would not do enough damage to cause them to flinch. The ARs had slow ADS so they had a similar problem where snipers could spam you with shots before you could do enough damage. For example, they could hide in the building on Hijacked and spawn kill. It doesn't matter if I'm doing well in a game because I might die once and then get two more deaths in a row due to being spawn killed by snipers. It came to the point where I was only using a couple guns like the AN94, SWAT or Scorpion Evo because other guns couldn't do anything against snipers. The PDW for instance was completely worthless in longer ranges. I would burst the thing and it would go all over the place. If I was lucky enough to hit a player, it wouldn't do enough to cause the sniper to flinch. I'd be waiting a second for it to recenter and I'd already be dead. This can be said for over half the guns in the game. Pistols became more useful than SMGs and ARs because at least they had consistent recoil. I still had a good KD in Black Ops 2 for anyone thinking I'm ******** because I'm bad. I just felt the game had very poor weapon balance. I don't want to see that happen to ghosts.

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    rainmaker6

    One of the very few things I liked about BO was the fact they showed stats on how many times each gun killed you. I don't know for for certain but I don't believe I have been killed by that gun all that often. Of course I typically try to engage at range with an ACOG so that may skew my experience. If the data doesn't support the an overuse or over effectiveness of a gun it should never be nerfed.

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    adw1983
    I can guarantee there is no data to support that the MSBS was unfair in comparison to other ARs or any weapons for that matter. Treyarch did the same thing claiming that the nerfs were due to data, but in reality it was only to cater to MLG demands so the gun might not be banned. That's exactly why the FAL was nerfed in Black Ops 2 and I'm sure that's why you nerfed the MSBS.

     

    I can guarantee you are wrong.

     

    I love to predict which weapons are going to be used by professional players each year, and this year it was the MSBS and MTARX which stood out as the obvious offenders, followed by AK and Remington which are the "least bad" assault rifles.

     

    The weapon statistics this year is extremely bland, shockingly so compared to CoD4, MW2 and BO2 -- but this has been a clear downwards spiral in IW games: CoD4 > MW2 > MW3 > Ghosts

    • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
      AlteredVista

      The bland atmosphere of pro scene is because they play 4v4 and these maps can't really be played on anything less than 6v6. Some almost feel like they require 9v9 to get the full experience due to their scale and complexity. I don't like watching this game by pros either, but I personally enjoy playing cod more than watching pro players. I have played every cod multiplayer in prime since call of duty 2 only missing call of duty 3. Pro players thinking a gun is OP doesn't mean much because their rule set isn't reflective to the majority of players or public matches. They don't even play on half the maps.


      Good players might be able to go ham with the MSBS, but couldn't those same players do well with other guns? There are a ton of times I've killed players who were using MSBS or been killed by them, and it never felt like I had no chance. I'm not sure you ever used the M16 or Famas because they were more overwpowered than the MSBS. Much more range, less recoil and had better sights.


      I think this game has better balance than MW3. When it came to MW3 I almost always used the ACR or Type 95 and PP90 for small maps. In this game I find myself doing almost equally well with most of guns.

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    simonm

    Agreed , all the gun needed was to have its damage at close range nerfed a bit . its useless at long range and now with the patch they made it even more useless at long range

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    maccabi

    AlteredVista wrote:

     

    . I can guarantee there is no data to support that the MSBS was unfair in comparison to other ARs or any weapons for that matter. Treyarch did the same thing claiming that the nerfs were due to data, but in reality it was only to cater to MLG demands so the gun might not be banned. That's exactly why the FAL was nerfed in Black Ops 2 and I'm sure that's why you nerfed the MSBS.

     

     

    Can you pick up satellite radio with that tinfoil hat on?

     

    guns get nerfed /buffed after devs do look at data, if a gun slips abouve or below a powerband it will most likely be altered, as player skill with x gun increases guns close to the top range of a power band will be adjusted . Thats how cod has always balanced guns,

     

    every now and again we get a combo that is obviously op and they get nerfed due to players feedback, akimbos for example in mw3

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    NoLifeKing32

    Its time to move on people.

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    nicedrewishfela

    Numbers, metrics, and stats outweigh perception.

     

    It wouldn't have been patched if those didn't warrant it.

     

    I still use it quite effectively.

  • Re: MSBS nerf unwarranted
    ghamorra

    I will only call the MSBS OP if the person hits every round, but guess what? At long ranges that won't happen and recoil ensures that it doesn't. Unless you're lying down it will bounce off the target. So to say the MSBS is OP is assuming that the gun his highly accurate. If you miss even on round it's a two burst kill at any range. Miss one round out of each burst it's a 3 hit kill at medium to long range.

     

    An AR is full auto and is no less than a 5 hit kill on the weakest weapon suppressed.