38 Replies Latest reply: Jan 8, 2014 10:25 AM by ghamorra RSS

Should getting shot punish you?

ghamorra

I'm curious to know how the community feels about this topic so I'll just be direct and feel free to discuss.

 

Should taking damage limit normal abilities such as knifing, ADSing, and movement speeds.

 

What brings this up are the number of deaths I've experienced from players who knife me while being shot which I don't think should be possible unless you have some kind of armor or balistics vest on.

 

Getting QSed or being scoped in on while shooting a sniper (this has been patched but not by much).

 

Shooting players in Blitz as they sprint into the goal. TOO MANY TIMES I'm getting kills after they score.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    Megadog14

    Make it so you cant sprint while you're being shot. Remove any perks which reduce flinch.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    TOLAND

    In my opinion, this would only slow the pace of the game down.  Someone who knows that if they take a round to the foot they won't be able to run will encourage more sedentary play styles.

     

    In other words, I believe you are asking to have more campers in the game without realizing it.

     

    In the end, the knifing mechanic isn't ever really going away.  People will always blow through your bullets as long as they hit the knifing button in time.  It could be worse, Black Ops would let you knife from half a map away.  I never worried about running out of ammo in that game!

     

    I have no opinion on snipers.  I don't love or hate them no matter how they scope.  I can snipe, but I don't have the love for that play style that others do.

     

    I think Blitz should be scrapped entirely.  The fun of CTF was not in grabbing the flag, but in returning it to your base because everyone could see you on the map then.  You needed teamwork to score.  Blitz is the "easy mode" and thus, loses a lot of the tension that should be there.   I don't even play Blitz anymore because there is just nothing in this game mode that appeals to me.  Search and Rescue doesn't have the tension of Search and Destroy as well.  And don't even get me started on Cranked.  I don't need a timer to tell me to go get some kills, thank you very much.  I can rush just fine on my own.  All in all, I believe the new modes were fails, at least in my opinion.

     

    Peace.

    • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
      nicedrewishfela

      I have to agree. Played some Blitz.. and it can be fun... but it is just silly at the same time. We were so dominant that 3 of us were just waiting near the portal. One would go through... we'd wait... the next would jump through.. and so on. CTF required a lot more thought.

       

      I still have my fondest CoD memory ever in CTF on Black Ops (weird since I didn't play a lot of CTF). Was playing with some randoms on Launch. It was a crazy back and forth game, came down to an OT session, when I had my Rambo moment.

       

      I fought my way to their flag and grabbed it. No cover, no help. HC CTF. Ran down below the launchpad trying to get back to our capture point when I ran into three enemies. Somehow I was able to take out all three, and then the flag carrier. I returned our flag and just hauled as fast as I could to our spawn to try for the cap. Sprinted towards the cap point just as the other team caught up through the middle buildings and got the game winning cap with a dolphin dive, bullets flying all around.

       

      Somehow, to me, that is more exciting than jumping through a hole.

    • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
      ChronoZombie

      I used to love CTF, but I grew to hate it.  In BO2 I could never get into a game where one team didn't take the flag and keep it while farming kills, and that isn't fun for me in any way, even if my teammate is the scumbag doing it.  I play objective games to win- Once some little kid whined at me for planting a bomb in demolition and I yelled at him to get the hell out and play TD if he wants kills, I'm here for bombs.  I didn't find this behavior very often in earlier games.

       

      Blitz addresses that fatal flaw in CTF, so I am happy to have it.  It isn't the best game mode ever, but there are only two objective modes now, so I take what I get.  Another option would be to change the flag to something volatile that would kill the flag bearer and automatically return the flag if it isn't captured in a reasonable amount of time.  That way you either cap the damn thing or die and the team gets it back without your team just trading it.  The only drawback to this is that each map would have to have a different time limit due to size and paths, and while I am sure that is hardly an obstacle, it does seem like more programming than they'd be willing to do.

       

      I'd kill for demolition back, I am getting very tired of Dom and Blitz.  S&R/D isn't an objective mode, it is a team killing mode with an optional objective- an option that is rarely if ever used.  I enjoy those games, but I do not consider them objective based at all.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    nicedrewishfela

    Interesting points... but CoD is such a fast-paced game I am not sure those mechanics would work out well.

    • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
      ghamorra

      I don't want people to think that I'm asking for a huge decrease in movement speed or anything major. Just enough that the person shooting you actually gets the kill he deserves, and in the case of knifing, doesn't get killed because someone freaked out while taking shots to the chest.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    xxphenomen4xx

    This could redefine "hardcore," seriously!  Cod has already made "realistic" changes to health regeneration, I think?

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    nuttin2say

    No.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    Alaskan Spartan

    i would say no, it's a video game. I don't want realism lol.

     

    My main reason for saying no is that we die so fast now, if you are lucky enough to survive a gun battle and are wounded it makes you a sitting duck,might as well kill me now. An argument could be made for until you regen your abilities are limited. so while we're sitting there with the red screen and heartbeat your reactions are slowed down drastically. if they get limited every time they get shot, I think it would slow the game down to a crawl.

    • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
      ghamorra

      I fully understand those that are concerned about game speed but as of right now players shrug off bullets with little concern. You get shot and the the only side effect is being hurt for a few seconds before recovering.

       

      Knifing though needs this and I cannot think of one reason why it shouldn't. If you're knifing through bullets absorbing 99pts of damage then you don't deserve the kill. The opposing player did everything right and you just abused a flaw in the game mechanics.

       

      Sniping is a concern simply because it goes against the nature of a sniper. In Black Ops II I died from QSers who ate bullets only to tap two buttons quickly and get a OHK. It's basically the same concept as knifing just at longer ranges. There's also a flaw in flinching that can take a shot to the chest and redirect it to the head area. Flinch has probably caused more headshots unintentionally than those who actually aim for the head.

      • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
        W_E_A_P_0_N_11_

        i dont think how the damage works should change, rather, you should have to SWITCH to a knife in order to knife.. i feel a knife should kill in one swipe even if i they took a couple bullets

         

        QS is something i find just extremely stupid. they should just have their own play list, and stay out of the pubs.. they really have no place in public matches.. they have been complained about consistently.. some reasons are good, so are bad. but they have been nerfed multiple times.. instead of pissing the community off either by keeping QS or nerfing them, just separate them they can have their QS montages, and the community can be sniper less.. both sides win

        • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
          rlbl

          Although I see what you are saying and respect your opinion... I do not think that is what G is talking about, nor does it answer the question he brings up.

           

          You mention how one could solve the examples he brought up, but the question still remains: if you get shot, should your abilities be hindered (movement speed, ADS capabilities, accuracy, etc..). These are still there regardless if one can knife, or quick scope you while being shot.

          • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
            W_E_A_P_0_N_11_

            right, well i dont think so, i think it would slow the pace down, and i feel this game does struggle with speed, so id say no

            • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
              ghamorra

              It's not so much speed but what speed accomplishes. Like capturing an objective in Blitz while being shot, jumping through windows while taking damage, or lunging through bullets to get a knife kill.

               

              I fully understand the concerns that people have when it comes to slowing down and how that can effect the game's pace, but there are some things regarding movement that I feel should be slowed down when taking damage. ADS, weapon swap, reloading, jumping, dropping, rechamber, ect. Not all should be effected but you get the idea.

      • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
        IndyOldGuy

        ghamorra wrote:

         

        I fully understand those that are concerned about game speed but as of right now players shrug off bullets with little concern. You get shot and the the only side effect is being hurt for a few seconds before recovering.

         

        Knifing though needs this and I cannot think of one reason why it shouldn't. If you're knifing through bullets absorbing 99pts of damage then you don't deserve the kill. The opposing player did everything right and you just abused a flaw in the game mechanics.

         

        Sniping is a concern simply because it goes against the nature of a sniper. In Black Ops II I died from QSers who ate bullets only to tap two buttons quickly and get a OHK. It's basically the same concept as knifing just at longer ranges. There's also a flaw in flinching that can take a shot to the chest and redirect it to the head area. Flinch has probably caused more headshots unintentionally than those who actually aim for the head.

        I consistently get knifed while shooting the guy, it just seems that once they hit the knife function, its over, its a game flaw that just kicks in and overrides everything else, its far worse in ghosts than I remember in BO2, it is somewhat comparable to MW3 knifing, but I still don't recall the sheer number of knife deaths in MW3 that I experience now....
        The 'NO FLINCH" that snipers seem to have when shooting them drives me mad!!!

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    adw1983

    I would love a "realistic" mode:

     

    50 health

    Shot in the head or neck: See you in hell; 3x headshot multiplier

    Shot in the arms: Flinch but only take 0.7x damage

    Shot in the legs: Fall prone

    Shot in the chest: Staggered (cannot run, only walk)

     

    The effects are separate and don't interact with eachother on a mechanical level, allowing all of them to happen in quick succession.

     

    But since we know that is unlikely to happen unless someone actually mans up and makes a decent milsim:

     

    Stagger when shot anywhere: Cannot run or sprint, only walk.

    Possibly fall prone when shot by a sniper -- while making snipers require actual accuracy to one hit kill once again.

     

    The real issue is that stagger would force rubberbanding:

    Get shot before you round a corner on your screen, and get hit while in safety -- you should, in the game world, not have reached cover, but staggered before reaching the cover, reaching it more slowly than you did on your screen.

     

    Currently, only stun grenades affect players in a similar manner, and I believe they simply apply the effect to you when you are notified, without rubberbanding.

    However, not rubberbanding when applying stagger means that players with high ping benefit more from the mechanic than players with low ping:

    Shoot a high ping player, and that player will always round the corner before becoming staggered on his screen.

     

    Force rubberbanding, and high ping players will rubberband back into the open, and the forum will be flooded with comments on "get over here bullets".

     

    The game's tick rate is far too slow, and the netcode too poorly optimized (and requirements to players' internet stability too lax) to allow the server to dictate player movement.

     

    One workaround would be to cause stagger to happen 0.30 seconds after getting shot, forcing the effect to take place even for high ping players.

    • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
      nuttin2say

      adw1983 wrote:

       

      One workaround would be to cause stagger to happen 0.30 seconds after getting shot, forcing the effect to take place even for high ping players.

       

      What are you talking about? You've been adamant about reducing lag comp, then - through that entire "idea" you want to ADD rubberbanding to the game AND you want to ADD genuine artificial lag to the game????

       

      Amazingly enough, I have no doubt someone is going to say, "Oh, yeah. That's a great idea adw!"

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    dtuchpunk

    you should be punished. Like you said in blitz you notice that it should be there. Getting kills after people get to the points.

    Because they where running and kept there momentum. Getting hit should slow you down.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    vims1990

    I'd agree on disabling knifing once being shot at.

     

    Knifing would be more about getting stealth kills from behind than sponging bullets and managing to pull of a knife kill from the front.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    Izjar11

    I hear what your saying, but your going into the realm of realism vs what this game offers. They would then have to remove many other "unreal" things and that would hurt the game more than benefiting it.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    rlbl

    Personally, I would say no.

     

    Although (as en example) it could help in the cases where someone runs through bullets and knifes you (a lot less in this installment than previous, but still can happen), it would make anyone who gets shot a sitting duck, as their movements would be impaired.

     

    I agree with the above posters that it would slow the game down to the point where most people would play overly defensively, as it would have a huge impact on anyone who chooses to "run and gun", or react properly at all for that matter.

     

    I imagine it would have the same effect as someone who is playing on sensitivity X, be reduced to a lower sensitivity when being shot.  Lower by how much? I dunno... but it would be the reverse effect of someone gaining "speed" perks while using the specialist package.  It can throw one off and makes them less effective.

     

    This of course is an opinion; highly debatable.

     

    Side Point: I often find that when I see someone run through my bullets and knife me, I watch the killcam to see that the character models were not where I thought they were vis-a-vis the system gamestate. It is kinda like how sometimes you get shot before coming around a corner, only to find that you were actually around the corner and in full view of the enemy.

    • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
      phxs72

      I wouldn't mind if the knife was just disabled while taking bullet damage.  It is quite annoying when you're a mere 1 bullet away from dropping a guy and he knifes you.  It's not game breaking or anything but it sure does suck.  As far as the movement speed reduction goes, I was for it in BO2 as I found the hitboxes on guys running speed perks often didn't line up with the character models but in Ghosts they seem to have gotten things in better sync.  Not perfect mind you but at least it's more manageable.  So in this installment I don't see the need for slowing down the characters.

    • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
      ghamorra

      I don't want people to think I'm talking a ton of movement speed hindering. What I'm suggesting wouldn't even be noticeable, just enough to ensure that you're dying when you should.

      • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
        rlbl

        With such suggestions, one does not know how much is too much. Who defines where the line is drawn between not noticeable and overly hindering.  If it was not noticeable, in reality, it would (well really could) also have no effect.

         

        side bar: this kind of suggestion came up in BO1 (not sure if you remember). I would not doubt it even came up before that.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    rlbl

    I am reminded of your blitz example: I have scored, and then fall over dead after I teleport. Too funny.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    Gambitual

    Off topic: On Blitz once, on Freight, I knifed a guy in the back as he was going through the portal. This is the portal in the two story building with lots of kegs and not the portal in the three story Owen's building. I got the kill, he scored, and in the knife recovery I slid forward across the floor of the whole building. Fun stuff.

     

    Slightly on topic: You want knifing to be for stealthy, mostly back only kills? How about you remove the ability for players to turn on their feet super fast and are able to watch their back at will.

     

    Completely on topic: What you are asking for is realism. And I for one am all for realism. I actually enjoy slower paced gameplay. But CoD has so many unrealistic elements, I say the realism should be all or nothing. Call of Duty can be fine with how it is and someone else can make a completely 100% realistic FPS/MilSim.

     

    Something else: This is something I see a lot in multiplayer games, whether MMO, FPS, or whatever. You, ghamorra, said this: "The opposing player did everything right and you just abused a flaw in the game mechanics." It is not a flaw. This is how the game works. This is what IW, and Treyarch for that matter, have done. I am not knocking you, but am more talking about the "unsatisfied" player-base of any game. You can't expect everything in anything.

    • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
      adw1983

      We've been waiting for over 10 years for a good milsim now.

       

      Everyone and their dog are making arcade shooters.

       

      Rainbow Six: Arcades

      Third Person Recon: Advanced Warfighter

      Operation Flashpoint: Bots Rising

      Battlefield: Bad Damage

      Battlefield 4HK-Semis / Battlefield 30FPS

      Medal of Honor: Warpsychic

       

      "Nothing pleases you, does it?!"

       

      Is it so much to ask for bullets to kill realistically in a game without any complete bullshit and that doesn't flicker or have the resolution of a film from the 30's when playing the game?

       

      1: Realistic weapons

      2: Realistic maps and necessary physics

      3: Runs 60+ frames per second

      4: Field of view of 75 degrees -- or adjustible FOV

      5: 100 server tick rate

       

      It's kind of sad that Call of Duty 4 is the closest we've been in 10 years.

      • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
        ghamorra

        I don't want a full military sim. I don't think that will go over well and it will most likely result in poor support. Instead I want an arcade shooter that functions with realistic principles while still holding on to that little tiny bit of a ridiculousness that makes games fun and unpredictable. When I say, "should getting shot punish you" what I'm really asking is, "is there too much BS occuring with people who should die but don't".

         

        I'm not asking for huge changes, just a small tweak that can help relieve some of the, like getting knifed by someone who should be dead.

      • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
        TOLAND

        The ARMA series on PC is as close as you will get.  60 fps would be impossible at this point to achieve if you went the ARMA direction.  There is just too much game world to process at one time for any consumer rig to handle.  If you haven't tried it, give it a go and see if you really want a true milsim.  I like it, but it's definitely not the game you play for fast-paced fun.  It's made by the original Operation Flashpoint developers.

         

        But I got to warn you, when you get shot, unless you have a bud there who can patch you up, you will be crawling on the ground until someone finishes you off.  And that's if you are lucky and don't immediately die.  There are no kill cams, so you never know exactly how you die because you just get the "You Are Dead" screen.  I csn't tell you how many times that screen has popped up on me and I just had to say wth?  Never saw who popped me.

         

        In other words, I don't see ARMA as being a very big public game ever as most people like to lone wolf and ARMA doesn't cater to that group.

         

        Personally, I like both games and would like to keep those worlds seperate.  It's the reason I don't enjoy Battlefield.  BF, to me, is what happens when you try to serve both worlds.

         

        Peace

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    flocks

    Just knifing needs punishment.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    Highwayman0226

         The dreaded panic knife sucks.  I choose to fire my gun, he reacts by knifing.  His screen is completely red, while I go from full health to 0.  Others have suggested making the knife a OHK from behind only.  Maybe throw in a coefficient where your knife only does damage relative to your health.  Say, take 100 as the base, if you are at 30% health, now your knife only does 30 damage from the front (we all agree from the back should still be a OHK).  Or maybe a knife doesn't kill you from the front, but puts you in LAST STAND.  That would surely discourage face to face knifing.

     

         I'm not much of a quickscoper, but when doing chrome barrel I was moving around a little bit, and I got off quite a few fast kills.  After it was patched, the flinch seemed pretty significant where it pulled me off my target quite a bit.

     

         The only point I disagree on is sprinting.  Not a big fan of not being able to take cover while being shot.  I don't think it's a good idea to change a vital mechanic (taking cover) just for a flawed game mode like Blitz.

  • Re: Should getting shot punish you?
    net_nginerd

    Yes, if you're getting shot you should lose the ability to knife. Maybe implement some sort of mechanic where after a bullet registers you're unable to use your knife for 1 second, or something to that effect. I'm not sure how the practical application of that change would play out but I'm fairly sure it would cut down a large number of the bs knife deaths.