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  • 20. Re: Lag Compensation Explained.
    Kerzone

    Hey sml7285

     

    thanks for the great explaination, i had to read it twice but it did explain a lot!

     

    As a long time gamer, originally on PC, i've experienced the joys of lag! theres nothing worse than being on a major killing spree coming around a corner just as some lag hits to find yourself completely dead, then watching the kill camera and seeing yourself stood there for a whole 3 seconds whilst the other guy chooses which eye to put his bullet through.

     

    As an old counterstriker, where we used to run dedicated servers (sometimes even hosting them at an ISP) there is much to be said about using dedicated services, and being able to run searches not just at random, but for servers that were hosted in your own country and had a decent up-rate.

     

    At the end of the day, if you are an above average player and you usually end up at (near) the top of the board and suddenly you are getting 8-18 kills then one of two things has happened....1) you've stumbled across a semi-pro group of players or 2.) you or the person hosting are lagging. The answer is the same either way... head out to the menu and join another game.

     

    If your still having major problems then reboot your network connection, disconnect any laptops and see if that works or quit for the night and go do soemthing else

  • 21. Re: Lag Compensation Explained.
    maccabi

    gigitygigity wrote:

     

    The bottom line is.

     

    No one talked about lag compensation in COD4, W@W or MW2. It wasn't an issue untill Blops came along. The developers have done something to the basics of how this functions for whatever reason and has made the whole thing worse in doing so. The end.

    Actually not true, the difference there was people didn't jump on one particular phrase as the be all and end all of the problems.

     

    Take mw2 for example and the entire sniperfog.exe debacle where people were convinced as the thing got bandied around and on youtube that was the cause of people doing well in one game and badly in the next.

     

    The second reason is numbers, blackops and now mw3 have alot more players, and without sounding harsh alot more players whofor the most part havent got a clue what they are talking about and have jumped on the lag comp bandwagon , you only have to look on the lag comp problems signed here thread to see exactly what i mean in action,.. you have people who posted on that saying 9/10 games are fine then they have the odd bad game its due to lag comp and have gone onto other threads now spurting lag comp sucks. also and again with utmost repsect for forum users alot of them wrongly assume that nowadays online play should be perfect and there shouldnt be issues with latency as they wrongly assume their best money can buy internet somehow makes their latency and game traffic go faster it doesnt. The internet is what is it is a mixture of fibre cable, copper wiring and nothing regardless of how much you spend a month will change the basic fact data travels at basically the same speed. The ONLY thing that would change this is when the entire game playing population has direct to their house from the exchange cable.and still the speed of data would still remain the approx the same.

     

     

    An arguement could be made that when blackops came out the entire way traffic is routed from the internet had changed, and due to both blops and mw3 generating alot more game traffic than previous games this had a knock on effect for some users as their isps downgraded udp packet routing.

     

    An arguement could be made that elite or theatre has had an impact on the way the games run,..

     

    there are so many possible causes outside the generally bandied about scapegoat of lag comp that you cant say it is def one thing.

     

    especially as an im sorry to say this from reading most of the lag comp based threads hardly anyone actually understands what it does,.the op is a good point in question whereas he has touched on some symptoms of lag comp his actual his actual "facts" are all mixed in with completely unrelated stuff.

     

    I firmly believe the majority of these type of threads wouldnt even exist if there wasnt killcams and my personal bugbear of hit markers,as most people dont understand they aren't a representation of what happened on THEIR screen which when dealing with an online game especially on consoles should be the only thing you consider.

  • 22. Re: Lag Compensation Explained.
    gigitygigity

    Sorry, but I think you're missing my point.

     

    I am in no ways an expert on networking. But I understand what Lag is and how many different things can affect it and why I get a better ping to a server 400 kms away than I do to the one 50kms away. A myriad of factors effect it.

     

    But, I'm talking about Host lag compensation here. I am hosting the match and experiencing lag. How can that be? The match is hosted on my machine, all the factors that influence normal lag don't exist for me. Yet someone turns a corner and I'm dead before I have a chance to react. That is what I'm talking about. I have seen loads of comments on other forums about this.

     

    It's not a coincidence that when I feel I'm suffering from this and quit the match the host migrates. Even though it embarrassing to say it. I have close to 100 days of online play over 5 COD titles and I know when things have changed. Up till Blops, rightly or wrongly host was a slight advantage. Now it's a major hindrance. But the same rules apply. If it was an advantage now its a disadvantage there has to be a happy medium somewhere.

     

    I guarantee that if it's not sorted. Then every match you go in there will be host migration after host migration. The game will be come unplayable simply because no one wants to host.

  • 23. Re: Lag Compensation Explained.

    Whatever it is, it's ******* terrible, that's for sure. I've NEVER played a more unreliable shooter. Who wins during a firefight? I don't know, flip a coin. But it sure as hell doesn't come down to who's got the most skill.

  • 24. Re: Lag Compensation Explained.
    nuttin2say

    maccabi said ...

     

    Actually not true, the difference there was people didn't jump on one particular phrase as the be all and end all of the problems.

     

    That right there is truest comment to hit the COD forums all year!

     

    "I heard that X = Y and so now I'm the expert!"

     

    There is a hell of a lot of BS out there.

     

    BTW folks ... I said last night that the big white elephant was that people don't want to be honest about their hardware ... do any of you realize that your console is "hardware?"

     

    Maybe not all consoles have fast enough latency to handle being host? How old is your console?

     

    Cables make a difference. Your router & modems make a difference. Your television makes a difference. They may make small differences, but enough small differences on two different ends can result in what you experience on the screen.

     

    You people don't want to hear all of that and it is understandable why: because accepting those answers, in your mind, means having to buy more expensive crap - which may not be the best answer to begin with.

     

    Do you people realize there is no way to get rid of lag 100%?

     

    Apparently you don't.

  • 25. Re: Lag Compensation Explained.

    I understand you are trying to help but I think you need to rethink some of your statements.

     

    "Those situations where you shoot an entire clip into someone and the person kills you:

    This is lag on your end."

     

    No. This is lag but not necessarily your end. This could be caused by a number of variables and may have NOTHING to do with your end. COD is P2P, yes there is a host but all players are still connected to eachother as well as the host. The host manages the game it doesn't function as a client-server model like a dedicated server would.

     

    "My guess would be that it is because of a lack of processing power to run the game, xmb, theater, et. al at the same time."

     

    You would be wrong. Plenty of processing power and memory to handle COD. Properly optimized? That may be the correct question.

     

    This is not the OP being quoted.

    "UL & DL speeds do not matter. Those are measurements of the volume of information being sent, not how fast it is being sent. It's like having a locomotive and a 747. The train can carry more ... but the 747 gets there a whole lot faster."

     

    Wrong. They are measurments of volume PER SECOND which is how fast it is being sent. A better analogy is a water pipe. If you have a 1" water pipe you will get much more water faster than you would if you had a 1/4" pipe.

     

     

     

    I always appreciate people trying to help so please do not take anything as me slamming someone.

     

    If the OP's argument is valid then why are most connections show as 4 bars? If our connections to the host are 4 bars then why is there 1-2 second delay? I have never played an online shooter with this much delay, even Socom on the PS2 didn't have this much delay and that was 8 years ago(?) when broadband was not so popular and quality and speed were no where near what they are now.

     

    Bottom line is there is an issue. The perception is that the better the connection the worse off you are. I can vouch for that because when I let my PS3 have full access, 15down and 2up it was horrible for me. I have now limited the allowable usage to 5down and 1up and it is a better, not perfect but better.

  • 26. Re: Lag Compensation Explained.
    rlbl

    Someone had mentioned that "lag Compensation" was never discussed in CODD4 and MW2...

     

    This is NOT TRUE at all.  Go on youtube and search for MW2 "Magic Bullets".  The same things existed in previous games, but most people did not know what to call it.  Now terms like "Lag Compensation" are used so people have sort of an idea what it is (and often mis-use the term).

     

    Thanks OP for putting in terms that can somewhat be understood. Some people (myself included) have always known what is going on.

     

    I always found it funny to read post of people saying how "lag compesation" and "hit-detection" were not working when they ducked for cover and got killed.  That is hit-detection and lag-compensation actually working (i.e. the exact opposite of the complaints)... but it yields non-realistic and undesirable consequences...

     

    If lag compensation (and hit detection) was not working: You will see people and start to shoot them, and have no hits registering and they would magically disappear as you (the lagged person) caught up to what was actually going on. It would look like everyone were using lag switches... (just an example of what could happen if online MP did not using compensation)

  • 27. Re: Lag Compensation Explained.

    Its a strange one, the last patch did help, but only a little, if I enter a game from the lobby I start ok and don't seem to lag at all, then a couple of mins in it all starts to slow down to the extent that it seems im running in glue, very frustrating.

  • 28. Re: Lag Compensation Explained.
    nuttin2say

    And believe me, I can appreciate people have lag related issues because I can damn sure promise you that I've had my share of lag related issues over the years.

     

    But to say that MW3 is the only COD title that's every experienced lag says one thing and one thing only:

     

    You didn't play previous COD titles from the day they were released and probably don't play them regularly now.

     

    Because EVERY title since MW1 has experienced lag related issues. Like maccabi said, though, somewhere along the way someone "heard" about lag compensation, latched onto it as the be all, end all and the reality is that there's only a few people in these forums that understand how lag compensation actually works.

     

    One reason you experience a different level of lag now than when you played SOCOM is pretty obvious - there were a hell of a lot fewer people online then and there were fewer ISPs. The hardware was more universal.

     

    If everyone was using the same equipment, you would experience a lot less lag related issues. That's why dedicated servers would PARTIALLY, not completely help the situation.

     

    They would not solve the problem because there are 1000s of different routers, modems, cables, and TVs being used - all of which play a factor.

     

    One last thing ... really think about what you're talking about with UL/DL speed. The amount of actual information being sent between two consoles is relatively small compared to the total amount of information processed by both consoles. The game only needs to know which team you are on, not what color the car is in the middle of the street because whether you're playing the game or I am, the car in the street is the same color. The game is not designed assuming a 100mb connection. Hell, for that matter they probably designed it assuming a 1Mb connection - so UL/DL do not matter unless you're on a 56k connection. Then it matters.

  • 29. Re: Lag Compensation Explained.

    According to your assessment, then my internet connection sucks .. If it doesn't depend on my upload or download speed, then it must have something to do with my ping rate .. I guess I better call my ISP and tell them that my 5 ms ping sucks and they need to improve it ..

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