8 Replies Latest reply: Jan 25, 2012 8:22 AM by That5What5Up RSS

These maps are so bad.


Okay, so we all know there're threads aplenty talking about plenty of problems in this game.  What I'm focusing on is not the infrastructure (lag, matchmaking, etc.) but the actual in-game balance.  I feel that many of the weapon and gameplay issues in this game arise from the often overlooked aspect of maps, as in, I believe that many things should be attributed to it when they arent.


1. Quickscoping.  Sure, it was here before and itll prob be here to stay, but why does it piss ppl off so much here?  Think about the maps on this one.  With maps like dome/carbon, the longest sightline is still going to be stupidly short.  Assault rifle-range short.  Now let me ask you, why are snipers made irl?  Similar to the same reason shotguns were made. To fight better at a certain distance.  Obviously, you cant have mile-wide maps in mw3 (fps issues or w/e) but SRs are an integral part of fpses, thus they have to put SRs in.  Your traditional, hardscope snipers will get destroyed on most maps here, because there is not enough space on the maps to "snipe" effectively.  Anywhere the sniper rifle can hit ARs can too.  So, theres quickscoping.  I wouldnt blame quickscopers here like I would on mw2 because IMO, there REALLY is not much you can do with SRs that you cant do better with ARs if the lobby puts you in a sniper-unfriendly map (all of them, bakaara/interchange are the only decent exceptions i can think of).  So, for people that hate qsers, I'm with you, but to put things in perspective, qsing wouldnt be so prevalent if IW designed longer-sightline maps like derail or array or even overgrown. 


2. Spawns.  IW just cannot get them right can they?  A whole patch, and ppl make youtube videos the next day of hilarious (in a sad way) spawnkills.  Well, lets take hardhat (bc dome is just unfair at this point).  When you have 6v6, think about the map layout.  Look up a picture of the hardhat map, and tell me it doesnt look like a wheel with 3 spokes.  When you have basically any gametype without fixed spawns, think about how many places the game can spawn you where you're not behind a thin-ass wall 10 ft away from a players view.  If you have 6 enemies, and the map is smaller than even dome and basically a circle, no spawn logic in the world can find good places.  You all know how hectic cod gets, theres enemies and airstreaks everywhere.  Add to that the fact that the game supposedly shouldnt spawn you in the way of bullets/nades/care package helis, and you can tell it becomes a shitshow real fast.  Downturn is another example, if one team controls the multistory building.


3. F--king buildings.  Yeah, we all know campers live in these things, but really IW?  An entire map, set in Paris, has 2 goddamn buildings to go in?  You spawn at the flag at the top of the hill and youre done.  If the other team has the two buildings and a reaper/ac130, youre done. DONE.  People like to talk about the fact that building promote camping, but they also serve a very important purpose, which are spawns as well.  Spawning inside a building is sometimes the only safe place a player can appear in without airstreaks killing them, and the fact they can have more than one story adds hidden square footage to the maps, allowing for better spawns, not to mention more dimensions of combat.  Campers camp as hard as ever in mw3, building or not, and probably more so.  And you know what, I'd do it too.  Because the instant I move, someone will prob spawn behind me.


4. Paths.  Think maps like crash and highrise, and jungle.  You have a and c at the ends. Theres 3 ways to go between them, and b is in one of the ways.  At any point, you know where the enemies will generally be; theyll be down that path or theyll be in another path, fighting your teammates.  Now consider interchange.  You have what is a wide open plain, with no real walls, just islands of material. a shitload of cars and random small obstacles. Why does wasteland work and interchange doesnt? becuase wasteland had a hedge between a and c, and there is only spot that you can cut through that hedge, near b.  Interchange has 3-4 ways you can cut through and change paths, which means even if you see someone going down one path, theyll be able to appear at any other path.  This also account for why some ppl find themselves being flanked repeatedly.  Unless youre on a pro/clan team that practices, there will be too many openings to guard and you WILL get shot from behind.  The obstacles also introduce unnecessary CQC (more on this later)


5. Luck based engagements.  Think seatown at point b.  There are maybe 7-8 places you can get shot from if you try to cap it.  This is why many find themselves being shot and dont even see their attacker.  This makes the game luck-dependent and not skill based; its not that you got outplayed, its just that you guarded the wrong 3 openings and someone (likely just spawned) came out of one of the other 3 spots and was lucky you didnt have eyes in the back of your head :/ 


6. Killstreak power: Consider this: In every past cod, you could have people going 30-2, 40-4 and in the same scoreboard, you have people going 0-20, 5-40, etc.  Now think about your past mw3 games.  How many people usually finish non SnD games with deaths in single digits?  How many people can have less than 10 deaths, even if they got 50-60 kills and are at the top of the scoreboard?  Now this is partly because of the above problems.  But it is also due to something else: killstreak effectiveness.  How often do you die from a stealth bomber in dome as opposed to bakaara?  And whats different about them?  Size.  A larger size prevents people from spamming AoE streaks and knowing theyll get kills, instead of aiming carefully so as not to waste it.  You cannot avoid all of the explosions when the map does not let you.  Stealth bombers wouldnt nearly be as bad a problem if the map gave you enough space so you could evade it if you knew the safe spots. 


7. CQC.  You wanna know why fmgs are overpowered more than the aa12s were overpowered in mw3?

  Becuase you can do well with them in EVERY map.  You go on wasteland with aa12s only, I'd laugh my ass off.  You go on interchange with fmgs, id back out.  Who the **** knows where youll spawn/appear from.


So, thats all I have for now.  Probably other things I forgot about. To be clear, this is all IMHO.  Any agree/disagrees?

  • Re: Thoughts on the source of some balance issues?

    EAXACTLY MY POINT, except better said.  but i agree in everyway... the maps on mw3 are complete crap compared to mw2 and cod4... its like the map designers forgot what makes maps great.... theres a line between making maps camp free (witch is stupid in the first place) and making a balenced map.... a map will never be camp free so what if they camp... if a person keep running around the same corner bc he is running and gunning and only shoots at things infornt of him... i think its his flaut.... i dont mind a couple maps of that nature but when its everymap on the game that u just paid $60 for expecting that the maps would be great like previous works of art from IW and then they turn out to be crap....

    • Re: Thoughts on the source of some balance issues?

      Exactly.  This game take an approach to camping similar to how SOPA was intended for piracy: it wont stop the problem and creates a lot more.  At least in previous cods you could avoid campers if you avoided the building, the maps allowed you to circumvent them.  Now due to their scarcity killstreaks get more kills then they should, by which i mean the stealth bomber.  It takes zero skill to kill with it on 6v6 maps. none whatsoever.  I hope your "decreased camping" was worth it IW, because I find myself more tempted then ever to sit inside a building or corner or else get spawnkilled in streaks.

  • Re: These maps are so bad.

    I have to disagree with 1. There are plenty of long sight lines on the maps if you look for them. Even on Dome there are multiple places that snipers can be used effectively and get long shots. I have played every map with a sniper and been able to go positive doing so. And No, I did not need to ever once QS to do it. And at best I am a sup par average player. So do not try to say there is no sniping area's on the maps that are any good.


    Spawns are not nearly as bad as they could be. You do realize with smaller maps the spawn areas are going to be closer to each other. And when people focus the fight in small area's of the map(mission: church) it opens up all the other spawns for the enemy to use to be closer and get back to the fight sooner. They do not have to make the enemy spawn as far away as possible for that would slow the game down and people would whine about it being too slow again.


    I have no problems or issues with the buildings, either camping in them myself or clearing out campers from them. It is not that hard to do at all. For every building has at least two ways in, which means they can not watch both directions at once by themself.


    Low deaths? hmm... I have many times had my deaths stay in the single digit when playing a game. and yet still get a decent amount of kills for me. I have gone 20-8 before sniping, or with the lmg's that people think are terrrible in this game.

    • Re: These maps are so bad.

      My point is not that there arent sightlines on the maps.  My issue is that the effective usage of snipers can be supplanted with assault rifles very easily in this game.  Im sure you can go positive, I can too, not my point.  On blops maps like havana or villa (or mw2's wasteland), you had perches and windows and many spots on the ground opening up to vast scapes on both sides of the maps.  These views snipers dominate and ARs dont, as well they should and shouldnt respectively.  On maps like bootleg, you have one good straight line to shoot down.  Sure, you can get a hardscope there and on the catwalk in dome, but so can anyone with a good AR/kick.  My want is that there needs to be more places for traditional snipers to work; Ive actually never gotten killed by a catwalk sniper on dome, but ive been qsed there countless times.


      Spawns may not be bad for all, hey more power to you, but I could have more funny (sad) mw3 spawn vids than anyone on youtube.  My friend JUST showed me his vault clip; he spawned in bakaara (one of the biggest maps) around 4 guys (1 in final stand) within 20 feet. I can show you the clip if you want.  People may have whined about "too long from spawn to fight" in prev games, but I assure you I was not one of them.  The maps ruin the spawn logic, at least for me.  Or you can search mw3 spawns on youtube, plenty of them were after the spawn "patch".  Now consider the various things that make a spawn point unusable:


      Enemy players looking at it, bullets flying in the area, grenades in the area, sentry/autosentry gun watching, airstrike, AI osprey above, IMS/claymore/betty, care package being dropped there, assault drone watching, predator/reaper missiles hitting, ac130/osprey gunner shooting there, etc.


      When you have maps with so little space to maneuver (especially if your team gets spawn trapped like in interchange or dome), you will be screwed and the spawn logic has no choice but to spawn you in close proximity to something above, most likely enemy players. Think hardhat: with 12 players running around and looking, with all those streaks laying down fire everywhere, in a wheel smaller than dome, what can inevitably result?  Unless you played demo Ive never seen that many complaints in prev games because the maps had good "safe" spots to spawn.  Even nuketown had two houses with roofs and multistories; these add "safe" areas at least a LITTLE.


      As for deaths, this is a general trend Ive seen; yes, im sure youre a good player, but look at scoreboards after every game and you WILL see a lot more deaths for everyone as opposed to the prev cods.  If only there was a way to track that kind of global stuff...

  • Re: These maps are so bad.

    I agree with most of what was said. Spawns espeically are terrible. And akimbo FMGs... lol. who thought up that idea?

  • Re: These maps are so bad.

    i like how you put it, IW took out camping like how sopa would had taken out piracy with a lot of callateral damage

  • Re: These maps are so bad.

    So we agree IW are morons then?