32 Replies Latest reply: Feb 20, 2012 5:29 PM by mich37 RSS

Just so you know Its not you its Them!

elite_force1uk

Keep seing posts about the recent lagg issues ,

most threads i see the paid fanboys that

patrol these forums pretty much blaming

members for there own internet connection.

 

Its not YOU! and its not YOUR connection,

Its there crappy programming (lag comp etc)

and Budget servers

 

I have 100mb BB

Static ip + Portforwarded Xbox

and a ping of 18 (faster than most)

 

yet im struggling to get 3 bars

(the lagg plays like blackops 1 bar)

  • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
    trialstardragon

    lag comp has been in all fps games since the very first fps game ever came online. just with everyone tampering with their connection to try and get a better game than anyone else it wrongfully adjusts and matches players against each other.

    • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!

      People wouldn't tamper with their connections if it didn't OVER compensate the people who use Walmart as an ISP.

      • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
        trialstardragon

        Well tough luck not everyone wants to pay for an expensive connection just to play a game online either.

         

        And the old Walmart connection joke is old and outdated...

        • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
          deucedouglas

          The main issue with it is that it wasn't broke and it didn't need fixing. They took something that was probably the last thing they needed to change from MW2 and screwed it up. Pair that with the fact that it is a FPS and that fractions of seconds can make the difference and now you've got something that affects the entire gameplay.

           

          Why should the fact that I have better internet than someone mean that my connection gets artificially degraded? Why don't they decide in the pre-game lobby who the best and worst players are and then make the best players damage do less and the worst players all get stopping power?

    • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!

      trialstardragon wrote:

       

      lag comp has been in all fps games since the very first fps game ever came online. just with everyone tampering with their connection to try and get a better game than anyone else it wrongfully adjusts and matches players against each other.

      this...

       

      lag comp has always been around.... online gaming would not work without it...

       

      but its their management of the connections that is the biggest problem... they match up people that have no business playing together.. then it compensates for a massive disparity...

       

      being host is absolutely gamebreaking for me.... could be due to a smallish UL of 1.5mb but then why select me all the damn time?

       

      before MW3... it was common knowledge that you get an advantage by either being host or having a great connection to the host.... it led to people doing whatever they could to improve their connection... better service, router, freeing up bandwidth etc

       

      IW in their infinite wisdom thought they were bigger then the foundation laid by a decade of developers before them.... and implemented their own new system and it f**king sucks... lol.. to put it bluntly..

    • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
      elite_force1uk

      trialstardragon wrote:

       

      lag comp has been in all fps games since the very first fps game ever came online. just with everyone tampering with their connection to try and get a better game than anyone else it wrongfully adjusts and matches players against each other.

       

       

      lol .. no offence but your exactly what this post is about

       

      " i see the paid fanboys that

      patrol these forums pretty much blaming

      members for there own internet connection"

  • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
    starbuckfrack

    Why is it that people like EliteForceUK STILL come on here and complain. If I was posting that much hate posts I would have returned it by now....

     

     

    AND he keeps mentioning their servers are the problem when this game has none. And he keeps mentioning how great his connection supposedly is. Some people dont get it.

     

    You can even see some people who get "better internet" and it solves their problem .

    • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!

      Starbuckfrack, you recommend returning the game after we have played it, and realized the network porgramming is, at the very least, extremely annoying. I don't know of a single store that will accept an opened played game return, do you? I'm not even sure if the EULA for this game even allows for returns after the software has been used online. Are you sure you can actually return the game and get ALL of your money back?

       

      You claim that this game does not have any servers, but it most likely does. How else do you think your xbox knows the IP addresses of all the other xboxes out there looking for games?

       

      You claim that I can see "some people" get "better internet" and it solves THEIR PROBLEM.

       

      Yes, perhaps it is possible that by better internet you mean internet that "plays better" with the networking software in MW3, but that does not translate to better internet by any means. In fact, from what I've read on these forums, players with higher latency suffer less disadvantage than those with "high quality" low latency connections. Finally, just because getting what is considered a lower quality internet connection allows xbox MW3 gamers to have an easier time online, does not mean the actual tangible problem is solved. It means that their problem with the online gameplay experience is no longer affecting them. This shows no consideration for the other players and the health of the matchmaking system in general... I find it interesting that there have been widely popular PC FPSs utilizing a combination of user and developer paid/sponsered dedicated servers for almost 9 years, (ex America's Army...) and yet we cannot get p2p hosting to work here. 

      • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!

        Starbuck is a lapdog of the developers.

        • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
          starbuckfrack

          barrybarretta wrote:

           

          Starbuck is a lapdog of the developers.

          No, I just dont waste time beating a dead horse. If its not going to get any better than get rid of it and get over it. There are other games people can play.

           

          Quote

          Starbuckfrack, you recommend returning the game after we have played it, and realized the network porgramming is, at the very least, extremely annoying. I don't know of a single store that will accept an opened played game return, do you? I'm not even sure if the EULA for this game even allows for returns after the software has been used online. Are you sure you can actually return the game and get ALL of your money back?

          Endquote

           

          I never said you would get all your money back . You can take it back to Gamestop for example once its opened and can get as much as 30 to 40 dollars of in store credit.

           

          Problem in this forum is people still complaining a year later , for example, of how much a peice of crap Blops was but they are still playing it expecting some god to come and magically make all their problems go away. I could understand people discussing having problems with the game for a week or so but just doing it constantly for months at a time shows that person has no balls and just wants pity.

           

          Some people cry that they get punished for having good internet. Other come by and say that destroy the competition with good internet. So then what is it ? Sounds more like a bunch of people complaining about the typical issues of the internet for the fact they cant play the game.

           

          Three years of being on the forums hearing "this game has the worst lag" is enough. I have some games that suck too but you dont hear me crying over it daily.

        • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
          elite_force1uk

          barrybarretta wrote:

           

          Starbuck is a lapdog of the developers.

          lol you noticed it too

          (there are more hidden on here too)

    • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
      elite_force1uk

      starbuckfrack wrote:

       

      Why is it that people like EliteForceUK STILL come on here and complain. If I was posting that much hate posts I would have returned it by now....

       

       

      AND he keeps mentioning their servers are the problem when this game has none. And he keeps mentioning how great his connection supposedly is. Some people dont get it.

       

      You can even see some people who get "better internet" and it solves their problem .

       

       

      1st part  i did return my 1st copy of mw3,full refund after 2

                   months of use as it is deemed Broken by uk law,

                   bought a 2nd hand copy in the hope Activision would

                   reinvest 1% of thier profit into fixing the game

       

      2nd part Check older posts , this is the 1st thread ive made 

                   about the servers

       

      3rd i have the best internet connection possible for xbox,

            so i should i expect the best!

  • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
    gallp13

    Actually Elite, it's both them and us...here's why,

     

    1. IW latency mngt not so good an needs work..but work des happen to an effective extent

    2. So users adopt home brew fix...inducing agency to avoid host

    3. This induces greater latency issues leading to more wft lag moment for users

    4. IW has a corrupted situation to fix which is hellishly difficult leading to fix delays

     

    But maybe you knw this......already ? ;)

  • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
    maccabi

    elite_force1uk wrote:

     

    Keep seing posts about the recent lagg issues ,

    most threads i see the paid fanboys that

    patrol these forums pretty much blaming

    members for there own internet connection.

     

     

    As someone who actually reads every "lag" themed thread I cant think of one instance where anyone has suggested it's peoples own connections opposed to issues with the games matchmaking and netcode. The only time thats ever mentioned is if theres an obvious scenerio ie someones forced to use a dodgy wireless ics setup as a recent post had..

     

     

    elite_force1uk wrote:

     

    Its not YOU! and its not YOUR connection,

    Its there crappy programming (lag comp etc)

    and Budget servers 

     

    they dont have servers, and also theres issues with matchmaking that is effecting people especially if you play in a party or at non peak times. There is a secondary issue with hosting and the dispraity between higher pinging players in a lobby which both are being addressed in the next title update.

     

     

    elite_force1uk wrote:

     

     

     

    I have 100mb BB

    Static ip + Portforwarded Xbox

    and a ping of 18 (faster than most)

     

    yet im struggling to get 3 bars

    (the lagg plays like blackops 1 bar)

    This basically sums up whats wrong with these types of posts, with the greatest of respect there are numerous threads on here that explain how different parts of your own network/connection influence the game and quite a few explaniations of ping I suggest maybe reading up on some of these points might be a good move. But the cliffnotes.

     

    you have a 100mb DOWNLOAD BANDWIDTH this is NOT speed it is a number that relates to how much you can download in one go, the important numbers for online gaming are upload and ping. To play any online game even the most basic of broadband packages with say 1mb download bandwidth is more than enough as online games actually use a very small amount of bandwidth.

     

    As for your ping , that might very well be your ping to the closest server you pinged but has no bearing on anything as its your ping to the host that matters, ping is a constantly changing number and is nothing more than a measurement of a round trip from you to a server, there are numerous factors that determine ping, distance from the server, your own network setup, the way traffic is routed around the internet for a few examples.

     

    As for your comment about only managing three bars, the bars represent ping, this means you are unable to connect to a host closer to you, now there could be many reasons for this as i said theres issues with matchmaking anyways but going on your i have an 18ms ping, in the case of 3 bars erm nope you dont you have a ping in the region of 100-199ms. Again this could be as you're playing a low populated playlist so local hosts are few and far between or playing at odd non peak times.. again theres many reasons for the 3 bar games and not all of them are the games fault.

    • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
      otisman666

      maccabi wrote:

       

      .....there are numerous factors that determine ping, distance from the server, your own network setup, the way traffic is routed around the internet for a few examples.

       

      This can't be stressed enough.  FIOS in the US offer's what looks to be impressive stats for their services.  15/15 all the way up to 35/35 types of numbers and for a reasonable price.  But it is all smoke and mirrors, in the North East the way our traffic is routed by FIOS is substandard.  Getting through regions in the mid-west is terrible at times, causing all connections through there and farther West to seemingly crawl.  I personally have been working with these guys now since December to send in Trace Routes in an effort to help identify slow spots which could potentially be improved.  I have seen some improvement, but it doesn't seem to be fast enough. 

       

      Don't get me wrong a portion of the issues have to do with the game, no doubt, but sometimes it is also a compounding of multiple factors..

      • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
        maccabi

        otisman666 wrote:

         

        maccabi wrote:

         

        .....there are numerous factors that determine ping, distance from the server, your own network setup, the way traffic is routed around the internet for a few examples.

         

        This can't be stressed enough.  FIOS in the US offer's what looks to be impressive stats for their services.  15/15 all the way up to 35/35 types of numbers and for a reasonable price.  But it is all smoke and mirrors, in the North East the way our traffic is routed by FIOS is substandard.  Getting through regions in the mid-west is terrible at times, causing all connections through there and farther West to seemingly crawl.  I personally have been working with these guys now since December to send in Trace Routes in an effort to help identify slow spots which could potentially be improved.  I have seen some improvement, but it doesn't seem to be fast enough. 

         

        Don't get me wrong a portion of the issues have to do with the game, no doubt, but sometimes it is also a compounding of multiple factors..

        another point people dont consider is the traffic is two way, for example you might have a 100ms ping, but that ping could be 20ms going and 80 ms comming back as the hosts isp routes traffic differently. The simple fact is once a packet leaves your own network and hits the web its at the mercy of the web/isps and the backbone of the internet routing services..

  • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
    ricobot360

    You know it's sad. They can't fix it. I play alone mostly now. Because when I join my friend from other parts of the U.S. Midwest the game becomes unplayable for me. When I'm alone In a mostly all west coast room the game improves for me a lot. But this was the case in Blops also. But not so much in MW2. Oh well some day they will figure it out and then there will be other things to complain about.

  • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!

    My personal opinion is that this "lagg" situation is much too complicated to be summed up in several bullet points as you have. I feel like everyone is responsible: players and game.

  • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!

    @ Otis: You're right, FIOS is blowing smoke up people's butts. Comcast is better.

     

    @ TrialStarDummy: You're on crack! Lag is minimal to none in BF3, MW3 has a lot more WTF moments.

     

    @ Maccabi: Dude, you should write a book on "Optimizing Your Connection for COD", and they can sell it right next to the strategy guide.

    • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
      elite_force1uk

      AJC37 wrote:

       

      @ Otis: You're right, FIOS is blowing smoke up people's butts. Comcast is better.

       

      @ TrialStarDummy: You're on crack! Lag is minimal to none in BF3, MW3 has a lot more WTF moments.

       

      @ Maccabi: Dude, you should write a book on "Optimizing Your Connection for COD", and they can sell it right next to the strategy guide.

       

      say it like it is .. nice 1

      Run for senate i will vote for you

  • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
    Nubdub

    Bottom line is IW and Sledgehammer made a mistake introducing host disadvantage. Any problem that has followed, including nurfing of connections and bad matchmaking is directly related to host disadvantage. Discussing personal connection speeds and internet quality is irrelevant until the host disadvantage issue is fixed.

     

    I welcome comments like yours Elite_Force. It shows there is hope for humanity and this forum and proves we are not all sheeple, following Activision over the edge of a cliff without hesitation.

    • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
      elite_force1uk

      Nubdub wrote:

       

      Bottom line is IW and Sledgehammer made a mistake introducing host disadvantage. Any problem that has followed, including nurfing of connections and bad matchmaking is directly related to host disadvantage. Discussing personal connection speeds and internet quality is irrelevant until the host disadvantage issue is fixed.

       

      I welcome comments like yours Elite_Force. It shows there is hope for humanity and this forum and proves we are not all sheeple, following Activision over the edge of a cliff without hesitation.

       

       

      thanks .. nice an sensible reply

      (brushed my ego too)

  • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!

    i have TERRIBLE internet cause im on a college campus....back home my connection is fantastic, but being at college has dropped my k/d considerably to the point where i dont even care anymore...

     

    occassionally i get games with 3/4 green bars and i do very well... i think the host conections need to be fixed though because sometimes it will let a bad host stay the entire game...

  • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!

    Just like to say, I have windstream adsl and it's garbage.

    1.3mbps down

    .45mbps up

    ping time to isp isn't ever less than 55ms.

     

    In matchmaking, It never gets below finding matches <100ms--usually its <125 though.  I'm never more than 3 bars in-game.  And TBH, game plays fine for the most part.  There are several matches where I do lag, but as i've said before, I blame it on poor matcmaking as it usually only happens when partied up.  In-game latency is what makes no sense to me though, especially after reading this article http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-lag-effect-psn-xbox-live-an alysis

     

    Why is it I have less problems with in-game latency than people with 50 times faster/better internet, especially with only 3 bars.  Maybe it's because i'm used to the delay between shooting and hit-markers, maybe its not.  I don't know, but just something to think about. 

     

    And before anyone flames on my internet, I live in rural Pennsylvania, it's my ONLY option.

    • Re: Just so you know Its not you its Them!
      elite_force1uk

      Stop lagging my game lol

      mich37 wrote:

       

      Just like to say, I have windstream adsl and it's garbage.

      1.3mbps down

      .45mbps up

      ping time to isp isn't ever less than 55ms.

       

      In matchmaking, It never gets below finding matches <100ms--usually its <125 though.  I'm never more than 3 bars in-game.  And TBH, game plays fine for the most part.  There are several matches where I do lag, but as i've said before, I blame it on poor matcmaking as it usually only happens when partied up.  In-game latency is what makes no sense to me though, especially after reading this article http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-lag-effect-psn-xbox-live-an alysis

       

      Why is it I have less problems with in-game latency than people with 50 times faster/better internet, especially with only 3 bars.  Maybe it's because i'm used to the delay between shooting and hit-markers, maybe its not.  I don't know, but just something to think about. 

       

      And before anyone flames on my internet, I live in rural Pennsylvania, it's my ONLY option.