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  • 200. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.
    adw1983

    Indeed.

     

    I can tell you which weapons are the most used weapons / weapons with the average highest KD ratios overall in the game solely from looking at the weapon statistics:

     

    AR:
    1: ACR (Needs kick to work)
    2: Type 95 (Camper's, patroler's and tactical mover's favorite)
    3: M4 (Underappreciated; Very good accuracy)
    3: G36C (Too high vertical recoil without kick)
    5: Mk14 (Too good, borderline OP)
    6: AK47 (Too inaccurate and too low damage on long range to compete with ACR)
    7: FAD (Underused because of the late unlock, but is useless too)
    8: CM901 (ACR with more recoil, lower long range damage, lower rate of fire and better range)

    9: M16
    (I have no idea where to place the SCAR-L, but it is on par with M4.)

     

    SMG:
    1: MP7 (The most accurate automatic weapon in the game, period)
    2: PP90M1 (The best SMG for short range in the game)
    3: Irrelevant: Almost not used at all compared to the above; UMP, because it was so good in MW2.
    4: P90: Because it was so good in CoD4 and has a larger magazine.

     

    Shotguns:
    1: Striker: Spamability coupled with damage, fires faster than USAS 12 by far)
    2: USAS 12 (Range coupled with... ... ... Well. Not many people use the USAS 12, but it will still be the second most used shotgun or at the very least the shotgun with the second best KD among it's users when using the weapon.)
    3: Unused


    Secondary weapons:
    1: Akimbo FMG9

    2: Stinger
    3: RPG
    4: FMG9 (Singe FMG9 is better than MP5 on all ranges)

     

    Sniper rifles:

    1: Doesn't matter, most snipers are good enough except:
    Second least used: AS50
    Least used: Dragunov

     

    LMGs:
    1: L86 (Accuracy and good reload speed)
    2: MK46 (Accuracy and rate of fire)
    3: M60 (Damage)

     

    ========================

     

    Expected average usage or best KD ratios:
    1: MP7

    2: PP90M1
    3: ACR
    4: Type 95 (Placed high because of high KD)
    5: Random bolt action sniper used by a quickscoper (average KD will be low)

    6: G36C (but the users do worse than those who use M4)

    7: Akimbo FMG9

    8: Mk 14
    9: M4
    10: UMP

  • 201. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.
    iamhollywood5

    adw1983 wrote:

     

     

    1: ACR (Needs kick to work)

    ACR needs kick to work?  How does a gun that has no recoil even benefit from kick?  That gun should be used with literally any other proficiency. It does not need kick.  Using 'Kick' on a gun that doesn't have any recoil to begin with is a waste.

     

    Other than that I would agree with what you said about most other guns.

  • 202. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.
    zArtfulDgr

    See 3:29 for the result of ACR testing.  ACR is one of 2 automatic guns in the game that markedly benefit from Kick.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y31tJwk25ps&list=UUEHf6KUY7Zw7hlXQ7hDemwQ&index=1 &feature=plcp

     

    I like the G36.  Because of the recoil pattern (straight up) and the shape of character models (tall and narrow), the G36 is probably tied (with MP7) for most accurate gun against actual opponents. (Unless you always aim for the head )   Shoot 'em in the, err, groin, and let the recoil walk up the body for consistant hits. Unless the target is really far away and really small.

     

    The ACR's  50/35/50 recoil pattern is deceptive in that it causes a lot of side to side missed shots.

  • 203. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.
    adw1983

    Most of my deaths, apart from revenge deaths 2 seconds after my kill, newly spawned enemies and spawning into enemy sights, getting shot from behind by an enemy running faster than me, or deaths due to getting singled out by a predator missile while there is nowhere to go or getting insta-killed undamaged by an UMP without taking headshots...

     

    are from enemies in windows, behind cars, boxes, crates, containers, walls and generic objects concealing most of their bodies.

     

    Thus I find that the G36C's recoil does not help.
    The G36C's inability to match the ACR's very decent accuracy rewards does not help it at all, either.

     

    Medium range:
    Headshot, headshot:
    ACR: KILL
    G36C: KILL

     

    Headshot, foot:
    ACR: KILL (108 damage; 63 + 45)
    G36C: NOT A KILL (96 damage; 56 + 40)

     

    Long range:
    Headshot, headshot, foot:
    ACR: KILL (114 damage; 42 + 42 + 30
    G36C: NOT A KILL !!! (99 damage; 37 + 37 + 25)


    Headshot, foot, foot:
    ACR: KILL!!! (102 damage; 42 + 30 + 30)
    G36C: NOT A KILL (87 damage; 37 + 25 + 25)


    In addition, the ACR has better range than the G36C.
    The G36C DOES have a higher rate of fire, but I tend to move from cover to cover, and care the most about winning head to head battles.
    I had to test that the G36C did in fact not kill in two headshots and one hit elsewhere on long range:
    Thermal G36C with the hold breath proficiency.

     

    Then add in the fact that ACR one hit kills on all ranges in hardcore... and you have no reason not to use it if you're into hardcore.

     

    The ACR's marginally higher damage on both short and long range DOES affect my performance a whole lot.
    It's better recoil pattern helps, too.

  • 204. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.
    adw1983

    Are you guys giving up the hope or have you quit?

     

    In any case, the complete list of problems listed as an equation (There should NOT be on single "greater than" sign in this equation if weapons are balanced (~=< is an "negligible difference"):

     

    Useless
    Not good enough (Often compared to other weapons in it's class)
    Balanced (Compared to all other weapons)
    A bit too good (Often compared to other weapons in it's class)
    Blatantly overpowered
    Nonsense!

     

    MP5 < UMP < P90 ~= PM-9 < PP90M1 ~= MP7

    M16 ~= CM901 < AK47 < G36C ~= M4 ~=< ACR ~= Mk14 < Type 95

    Dragunov < L118 ~= AS50 < MSR = Barrett = RSASS

    AA12 ~= KSG12 ~= Model 1887 ~= SPAS12 ~=< USAS12 < Striker

     

    Because I'm on a roll, here's the perks:

    Scavenger < Sleight of hand = Recon = Marathon ~<= Blind-Eye

    Blast Shield ~= Overkill* < Hardline < Quickdraw ~= Assassin **

    Steady Aim = Sitrep = Marksman < Stalker *** ~=< Dead Silence ****

    * Overkill is useless because snipers get single or akimbo FMG9s, period

     

    ** Assassin is Nonsense! because it counters or completely invalidates ONE perk (Marksman), ONE attachment (Heartbeat sensor), TWO pieces of equipment (Portable Radar and THREE killstreaks (UAV, UAV-jammer and Advanced UAV).

    THEN it goes on and reduce the effect of ONE more perk (Recon), ONE more attachment (Infared) and another killstreak (EMP).

    (We could argue that Portable Radar and Heartbeat Sensor is nonsense... but when they are here, ONE perk should not counter them ALL)

     

    *** Stalker lets players with assault rifles strafe while aiming at a pace faster than a 5 sensitivity lets a player aim on 7-10 meters range.
    The default sensitivity is 4, meaning stalker lets you STRAFE so fast that your enemy cannot follow you with his sight, resulting in your opponent having to set his sensitivity to 6 or be raped by stalkers outside hip-fire range.
    It would be fine if the strafe speed was somewhat realistic, and not almost as fast as the forward run speed. x0.65 would be a nice multiplier.


    **** The problem is twofold. YOUR silence makes enemy footsteps VERY noticeable. Enemies cannot hear you coming, so it effectively makes enemy footsteps much more noticeable.
    Secondly, we have two methods of detecting enemies in the game: 1: Vision, 2: Hearing.
    Removing ONE of those TWO is Nonesense!

    I cannot effectively hear dead silence users with my turtle-beach headset even when stationary without ANY sounds what so ever in the background.

     

    =============================================

     

    For reference, here's CoD4 (Leaving out the novelty weapon):
    G36C ~=< M4 = AK47 = G3 = M14 < M16
    Mini-Uzi = MP5 = P90 = Skorpion ~=< AK74u
    R700 < M40 = Dragunov = Barrett = M21
    M249 SAW
    ~= RPD ~= M60

    M1014 ~= W1200

     

    Perks:
    Bandolier = 3x special ~=< 2x RPG = 2x C4 = Bomb squad ~<= 2x claymore ~= 3x frag ^

    Double-Tap = Sleight of Hand ^^ < Overkill ~<= Stopping power = UAV-Jammer ~=< Juggernaut ~= Sonic Boom ^

    Eavesdrop ? Iron Lungs < Extreme Conditioning = Last Stand = Deep Impact ~=< Martyrdom ^ ~=< Dead Silence


    ^ Frag grenades were VERY GOOD in CoD4, and combined with Sonic Boom, they were absurdly powerful. Combine 3x frag with overkill, and have 3 free kills. If frags were reduced to 2x, both would be balanced. Martyrdom made the entire 3x frag, sonic boom, martyrdom class extra viable.
    ^^ Sleight of hand was VERY useful on the M14 and M1014. If it allowed you to aim faster too, it would have been PERFECTLY balanced with stopping power.

     

    ? Eavesdrop. Because hearing about what your enemy clan members ate last night, or worse, what they did to their girlfriend last saturday -- is... well.
    The idea is good, but the result is just perverted.

     

    CoD4 quickfix:
    Make G36C deal 35 damage on short range
    Make M16 fire at 780 RPM

    Make juggernaut multiply damage taken from all weapons by x0.85 (20 damage weapons no longer need 7 hits to kill instead of 5, but will kill a juggernaut in 6 hits. It needs to reduce explosive damage to 0.5x)
    Give R700 1.5 multiplier on stomach (Yes I know what that will mean, but it NEEDS that.)

    Make AK74u ALWAYS have AR-hipfire (instead of only when silenced and with red dot) to weigh up for it's good recoil and AR bullet penetration compared to MP5.
    Give shotguns one more pellet.

    Move overkill to perk slot 1, replacing 3x special.
    Remove 3x frag completely.

    Remove Eavesdrop (All perk slots now have 6 perks)

     

    ...

  • 205. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.

    Hard to take you seriously when you say the P90 <= the PM9, or that the ACR = MK14.

     

    P90 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PM9

    ACR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  MK14

  • 206. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.
    adw1983

    By ~= as opposed to just =, I suggest they're too different to be equal but are comparable.

    Actual ingame testing proves your point, though, without kick it is absolutely useless.

     

    It should definately not be borerline "too good", so I'll change that one.

     

    As for the Mk 14 -- I've used semi-automatic weapons almost exclusively since CoD4, and I think the Mk 14 is a bit too good.
    The one headshot kill up to 28 meters gives a heapload of random kills and allow for skill shots when the game doesn't lag horribly.

  • 207. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.

    ACR completely dominates the Type-95. The Type shoots at a 300RPM (including the delay), and with Rapid Fire, it shoots 330RPM. ACR poops on it with 705RPM. The Type kills in 2-5 bullets, while the ACR kills in 3-4. ACR wins at range, which the Type already lacks.

  • 208. Re: Official Weapon Balance Feedback Thread.
    adw1983

    Oh...

    Surely you do count reloads to reach 705 RPM for the ACR too?

     

    Point being:
    Rate of fire does not matter when the weapon has already killed and put one more bullet in for good measure.

     

    For reference, the burst fire delay is 0.20 seconds

     

    With rapid-fire, you fire at 1250 RPM

     

    0.000: First bullet fired
    0.050: Second bullet fired
    0.100: Third bullet fired
    0.300: You can fire again.
    0.350: You fire your fourth shot
    0.400: You fire your fifth shot
    0.450: You fire your sixth shot

     

    Take an ACR.
    0.000: First bullet fired
    0.085: Second bullet fired
    0.170: Third bullet fired
    0.255: Fourth bullet fired
    0.340: Fifth bullet fired
    0.425: Sixth bullet fired.

     

    Now.

    Type 95 two-hit kills up to 24 meters and three hit kills up to 37.

     

    It's rate of fire when firing 6 rounds is higher than AK47 and CM901, neither of which can two hit kill.

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