1 2 3 Previous Next 886 Replies Latest reply: Jul 16, 2012 11:22 AM by iif0xh0undii Branched to a new discussion. RSS

Shotgun balance thread

Okay here is how this is going to work.  I am going to tell you what the shotgun community wants ( what we feel is fair and balanced in mw3) and you will either agree with it by signing your gamertag and writing "buff the shotguns" in your post.  Or you can argue with me as to how my suggestions will unbalance shotguns and I will try to convince you otherwise.


Please do not offer your own suggestions about how shotguns should be fixed.  I have participated in tons of shotgun threads here and on denkirson forums and we feel as though these buffs will eliminate almost all of the complaints about shotguns with minimal work required of the devs.  In other words I have been able to convince most shotgunners that this is the most likely thing we can ask for from the devs that they will actually do, its our best chance to see significant improvement. 


All posters must include gamertag so others can check their elite profile to see if they have enough experience with these weapons to make an informed opinion.   


Okay so here is what we think will balance the shotguns in mw3.


spas12:  Increase close range damage to 36 per pellet, giving it 36-14 damage stock. 

1887:     Increase close range damage to 40 per pellet, giving it 40-20 damage stock.

ksg 12:  Increase close range damage to 36 per pellet, giving it 36-15 damage stock.

usas 12:  Increase long range damage to 7 per pellet, giving it 25-7 damage stock.

aa 12:   Increase close range damage to 20 per pellet, and increase long range damage to 10 per pellet.  This gives the aa12 20-10 damage stock.  Also the aa12 needs 2 more clips of starting ammo to make scavenger less needed.  The gun is already weak enough, It doesn't need an ammo handicap. 

striker is fine as is.  Still a very competent gun in mw3.  Not nooby or too hard to use.


6/27/12 edit:

We also need the pump shotguns to have 80% movement speed while ads.  This is the same as smgs are in mw3.  Pump shotguns have had 80-100% ads mobility for a long time in the cod series so its another standard feature pump shotguns have had for a while and we want that back.


The pump action shotguns should also have a degree of spread tightening while ads.  It was a good feature from black ops.  In black ops ads with the stake out gave it a spread of 3 degrees which is tighter than its steady aim hipfire.  Ads is a good way to make your shots as accurate as possible but right now if you are using steady aim on shotguns when you ads your spread will enlarge back to its default (non steady aim size).  We feel that trading some mobility for increased range effectiveness is a good feature for mw3 pump shotguns.  The particular numbers are 3.5-4 ads spread on the 1887.

3.25-4 ads spread on the spas and ksg.  Only the 1887 might need a slightly tighter ads spread than steady aim allows.  Its got the damage at range but its spread is still to large with steady aim to take advantage of that extra range damage.  (Edit end)


The 1887 needs 40 damage up close because it has a very short max damage range ( 300 inches opposed to 400 on spas and ksg)  Making the 1887 do 40 damage per pellet up close allows its slow damage drop to catch up to the other shotguns and would give it a similar 2 pellet kill range with damage (still shorter than spas and ksg but only by 20 inches or so).


Almost every one felt the long range damage on the pumps was fine and it was the close range inconsistencies were the most frustrating feature of pump shotguns. With 36 close range damage you are no longer pigeon holed into range, damage, or even steady aim.  This increases the versatility of the least versatile gun category in the game.  We have had this damage before in mw3.  The pre 1.08 spas12 did 420 damage up close.  I very rarely found the spas unreliable up close.  So we know that 400+ damage up close works for reliability.  And we know it isn't op because there wasn't a single nerf the spas thread in this forum.  There were tons of buff the spas at range threads in this forum though.  So that goes to show the community was fine with 400+ close range and just wanted more damage at range for the spas.  36-14 does that quite nicely.


The usas 12 is weak in the last 1/5 of its range and can require up to 4-5 shots at range even with damage proficiency.  With 25-7 damage the damage proficiency will make it a reliable 3 shot kill at range.  That means that it will still take 0.8 seconds to kill at max range.  Any other gun in the game will kill in less than .18 seconds at that range so we feel this is balanced.  And frankly adding 2 damage per pellet at range is not asking much.


The aa 12 is the worst shotgun in mw3 after the 1.08 patch, terrible range terrible damage, and terrible ammo.  The only saving grace is the rate of fire compared to other shotguns.  But considering the fact that it usually takes 3+ shots to kill and it only puts out 400 rpm,  Its time to kill is extremely bad.  The aa12 usually takes 2 up close and 5-7 shots at range with good accuracy.  With its fire time of 400 rpm that gives it a time to kill up close of .15 to seconds.  That is fairly respectable.  Only smgs and one shot kills beat that.  And There is still a tiny chance for a 1 shot kill with the aa12 so it performs okay up close.  But at range its time to kill is between 0.6 and 0.9 seconds.  That is unacceptable.  Avery other gun in mw3 will kill in less than .18 seconds at that range.  And the aa12's range is so limited that it becomes extremely difficult to use.  So the 20-10 makes the aa12 a 2 shot kill up close with a slightly improved one shot kill chance.  Still not a good chance but improved from where it is now anyway.  But at range the 10 damage makes it a 4 shot kill making it far more reliable by only taking 0.45 seconds to kill at range.  That still isn't good compared to other primaries but hey its an auto shotgun so whatever.  This is weaker in every way than its mw2 version but I think it will be balanced in mw3.


5/26/12 edit: 

After testing the current reliable one shot kill range of the pumps we have changed the proposal numbers so that only the ksg will have an increase in reliable one shot kill range.  The spas and 1887 will not be able to kill reliable from any further than they do right now if the above numbers are implemented.  And the ksg will only have a .65 meter increase in reliable one shot kill range.  (Edit end)


We have had a 2/8 pellet kill up close on shotguns since cod 2 up to mw2, then black ops had its terrible shotguns that no one used, then we had had it again with the pre 1.08 patch spas with damage and emags "glitch" in mw3.  The cod community is fine with a 2 pellet kill on shotguns.  The community has not complained about the 2/8 pellet kill on shotguns in the last 6 games that had them so we know they are fine with it. 


Then of course shotguns have lost their spread tightening while ads feature that they have had for so long.  And also shotguns used to move at 80% speed while ads, now they move at 40%.  Shotguns in mw3 have lost significant strength in their core stats and in their handling.  No other weapon class can say that in mw3.


There is a basic principle with the other guns in mw3.  The slower the rate of fire the more damage each shot should do.  The low rate of fire automatics ARs have high damage, then higher than them is the burst fire ARs, then higher than them is the mk14.  With shotguns The pumps shoot the slowest so they should do the most damage per shot at any range. 


That's about it.  And remember post your gamer tag if you want to participate in this thread.


Buff the shotguns


gt:  Brick2urFace


gamer tags so far:  SLAP 1i, CoopEhLoop, Pbo MadBrute, Raiden Gekkou, xFANCY KIWIx, Stormshdw7, TheyCallMeFifty, hidefkillswitch, Newmanizor56, FiveDol1aFtLong, TryHard MVP, Pipebombman, X JLu, ManBearPig862, Borens Syndrome, Damuffinman, Metallicas ESP, DM x SmokesDope, TheFallenPariah. Too many I am not going to write them all.

  • 1. Re: Shotgun balance thread

    As a huge fan of the pump shotty, I've always appreciated your input on this matter.  I believe you've done your homework, and I agree that these tweaks would help the shotguns be more consistent.


    My concerns with any buff is that it may turn an inconsistant gun into the next OP weapon everyone is complaining about.  It sounds like you've considered this, and are recommended fairly minor changes.


    Buff the shotguns


    GT:  SLAP 1i

  • 2. Re: Shotgun balance thread



    First post here.  Hi


    Wasn't able to for months because of some wierd glitch.  But yay!


    I don't use anything outside the Model, starting to work on the KSG a bit.  What I would like to see is a tighter spread on the Model.  Not sure if the same were to apply on the other pumps but I think that is why we get hitmarkers up close sometimes?


    I don't want to increase the damage because then it rewards inprecision.  The reason I like the Model so much is it a very satifying gun to use.  Even if frustrating sometimes.  If they buff the accuracy/consistancy of the spread it rewards the right things.


    Just my thoughts.  CoopEhLoop

  • 3. Re: Shotgun balance thread

    You like the 1887 don't you?  Almost 5800 kills with it is a ton of kills with a pump shotgun.

  • 4. Re: Shotgun balance thread

    If they tighten the spreads to increase performance lag will effect it far more than it does now.  to prove this point take the spas without any proficiencies and put steady aim on it and play a few games.  Then take the spas and put damage and something other than steady aim on you will notice how the lag will effect you close range performance far greater with the weaker more accurate spas than with the more damageing less accurate spas.  So tightening the spread more without increasing damage will harm the guns performance in game.  If you used the pre patch spas with damage and emags you will know that 400+ damage doesn't reward inaccuracy because you still have to have them near fully in the reticle to get the kill inside of the 400+ damage range.  And again no one called for the spas to be nerfed up close when it still had the emags glitch, they all called for it to be buffed at range.  We simply want the reliability of a 2 pellet kill which is the equivalent of what the pre patch spas did up close.

  • 5. Re: Shotgun balance thread

    Buff Shotguns  Gt: PbO MadBrute

  • 6. Re: Shotgun balance thread

    For my play style (winning demo games), they work great.  I could play more cautiously and preserve my K/D better, but I just don't care.  Winning is everything.

  • 7. Re: Shotgun balance thread

    Before the buff I had 3 gold shotguns. The spas the usas and the aa. After the buff I finished getting the ksg gold. I have over 1000 kills with te spas usas and aa and I'm at like 970 with the ksg. I thought the only shotgun that needed a buff was the ksg. Now it's the aa because the extend mag glitch was taken away on it with killed its range and damage. The aa NEEDS more range. I refuse to use the hooked on phonics easy mode striker. I feel like I cheat when I do cause its so easy. So my thoughts would to give the aa more range because as of now I can knife the guy before I can shoot him.

    Gt: xFANCY KIWIx

  • 8. Re: Shotgun balance thread

    yeah its really hard to maintain a good w/l ratio in this game because the teams I get put on are absolutely terrible.  I play mostly tdm so I can just kill as many as I can to help my team win.  That way I don't have to just dive on objective and die constantly to win.  This doesn't always work though.  There have been literally dozens of games of mine where I go Like 30-7 and my team still loses badly because of how bad my team is.  I have a 43-4 tdm game on seatown where we only won by 7 kills.  I gave my team a 39 kill spread and we almost lose.  I have that game titled "best team ever".

  • 9. Re: Shotgun balance thread

    AA12 with 20-10 damage and range proficiency would be okay for your needs.  The range and damage at range would be okay.  OH I forgot, the aa12 should also come with 3 clips of starting ammo instead of 1, I'll add that above.

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