1 14 15 16 17 18 Previous Next 193 Replies Latest reply: May 14, 2012 11:36 AM by rankismet Go to original post RSS
  • 150. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    maccabi

    RedRaider wrote:

     

    Maccabi, first lets get something straight.  I am talking about the out of sync hit detection issue not party lag.  I don't play in a party often and when I have nothing was better or worse than my existing awful experience.

     

     

    Gee wonder what causes being out of sync issues..erm erm..ermm oh oh it starts with P its on the tip of my tongue... oh yeah ping thats it. See your problem is as we've adequately proven numerous times before is you havent got a clue what you're talking about, yet continue to make the internet equivelent of the world is flat arguement in long drawn out diatribes that as i said earlier basically register on my radar as tl;dr. But as you really want to get into this we will.. 

    There is no such thing as party lag, please stop making up terms to justify your own misguided theories.. and yes i said theories which leads me onto ...

     

    RedRaider wrote:

     

    Here is the thing, I called it a theory because that is what it is.  You are basing your argument off of your experience and generally accepted common knowledge of the game but you have absolutely zero factual evidence to support ping or lag compensation causing the out of sync hit detection issue.  You also have zero working knowledge of MW3's lag compensation system.  Those are facts, the end. 

     

     

    So you're entire premise is a) i have no factual evidence to support ping or lag compensation causes out of sync issues, okaaaay and b ) i have no working knoweldge of the mw3 lag comp system..okaaaay

     

    a) See what you call a "theory" is actually a fact , whether you want to accept this or not is down to you and your somewhat intractable flawed viewpoint., ping and latency have since people first started lanning up pc's to play games been the reason why things go "out of sync" in network play. The entire system of lag comp regardless of the game in question uses ping as its yardstick.

     

    b) regardless of if i have seen the games raw code or not (i have so theres that "theory" fired out the window), is immaterial. A working understanding of lag comp is more than enough to be able to comment on events i and others see on screen. You dont need to see the exact line of code to know that the lerps (linear interpolation)  is set to high or rather incorrectly in some circumstances) for example as anyone with experience in coding lerps knows what the effects are if the lerp is set to high. As you obviously dont know lerps causes out of sunc issues and hit detection issues.. want to take a wild guess what measurement netcode uses to work out lerps.. it starts with "P" ends in "ing".

    while you say i have no factual evidence, what you actually mean is you have no understanding of the most basic of concepts and something that a simple google search would bring up 10000's of links to as what you consider "not factual evidence" is how every online game since the year dot has been made.

     

     

    RedRaider wrote:

     

      Nothing you said earlier disproved me

    It's not a matter of disproving you, everyone knows you basically talking complete codswallop as you havent got the basic grasp of anything to do with how lag comp,mathcmaking, ect works.

     

     

    RedRaider wrote:

     

     

     

    Now you also put on a good show earlier

     

    thank you i was considering adding sock puppets but felt they werent needed

     

     

    RedRaider wrote:

     

     

    but all you did was muddy up things to make yourself sound correct.  You even admitted I was correct in your post.  You say when people time out they stop moving but then admit that it isn't accurate because I gave an example of what interpolation does to smooth things out by following the last command issued to it by the player.  Then you gave a different example of the same thing and told me I was wrong.  If the player then drops it continues with that command unless programmed to do otherwise and I have seen players who dropped continue firing well past the number of bullets in their weapon and run into a wall until they disco.  I have seen the same thing in BF3, Planetside, BF2, Black Ops, Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2, and a dozen or more other FPS's because as you and I both agree that's how it works.

     

     

    please dont mistake my agreeing with you almost on one specific point as agreeing with you completely, i dont most of what you say is incorrect and its that complete lack of understanding that then fuels the rest of your comments. (even though g-d knows how many times you have been correct on this forum)

    What you said about interpolation was incorrect hence i corrected it. And you cannot use other games to describe events in a different game it doesnt work like that. nor does using an entirely different platform again it doesnt work like that. What happens in a online poc game has no bearing on what happens in an online console game and vice versa.

     

     

    RedRaider wrote:

     

     

    All those other games don't make me feel like I am out of sync and my bullets are pointless if I play them anywhere else in the world. In BF3 or RSV I have 4 bar or better connections and no real lag to any server any where.  If ping was the great destroyer of gaming experience how is my ping on to Australia, Europe, and Asia not killing my gaming experience?  Probably because the lag compensation methodology is different between those games. 

    so you can play anywhere in the world and not expereince latency..yeah right see its these type of comments that make you sound like you really are just making this stuff up. Again none of this had any bearing if you're talking about a different game or different platform.

     

     

    RedRaider wrote:

     

      My xbox or router are probably not holding onto a personal grudge against MW3.  So since I can play other FPS's with no issues the only available evidence suggest that ping isn't the issue at all.  Even better is you say ping is the issue but you ignore the fact that artificially enducing latency doesn't change the situation and does in fact make it worse like it should do while exclaiming that my sync and hit detection issues are caused by ping.  If ping is the problem adding ping would help not hurt.  If ping was the problem restricting bandwidth wouldn't do jack especially when 250kbps should still be plenty enough to handle the data the game is sending and receiving during gameplay.  Yet somehow restricting bandwidth does.

     

     

    There is no artifically induced or added latency this is a misconception people such as yourself keep spouting, constantly saying it doesnt make it true. If memory serves me correct and to be honest i really cant be arsed to go check, your method of "restricting bandwidth" was actually throttling your connection the idiot way and wasnt restricting bandwidth as it was restricting the free flow of packets, basically a very nasty psuedo lag switch method. oh and fyi 250kbsps .. yeah might want to check that number numbnuts.

     

     

    RedRaider wrote:

     

    You are either confusing my concerns about being out of sync and having poor hit detection with your concerns about party lag or you are basing your theory off of your practical knowledge of how your games have addressed lag compensation

    no im not confusing your "concerns" mostly im ignoring them as your "concerns" are the result of your own confusion not mine or anyone elses. Again party lag thdunk..

    the fact you have jumpd all over the change to matchmaking as some sort of "fix" for everything shows you really havent even grasped the most basic parts of the system. and yes as i mentioned before i am basing my "theory" *cough* off my practical knowledge , this would be the knoweldge i got from years writting netcodes for mmpogs, work i do nowadays and the fact unlike you i actually learnt about this stuff and didnt just go spouting off random stuff that sounded logical in my own confused mind.

     

    Still obviously you know more aboput this stuff than me and the devs who made this game, i mean thats why they decided to change matchmaking to the other system finally and actually cited you as one of the people who suggested it months ago ..

     

    RedRaider wrote:

     

    and ignoring evidence that doesn't support ping being the culprit.

    as you obviously keep missing this memo.. ping  is used in determining matchmaking, and every other factor of an online games lag comp algorithms , its not the lack of evidence which you so desparatly cling to to support your own flawed standpoint its the simple fact you wont accept the evidence . 

     

    so we're clear i couldn't give a monkeys what you reply with now, you whined for an answer you got one i know you wont like it but tough, may i suggest though instead of writting another the earth is flat diatribe you spend the time instead actually reading up on the interwebz what lag comp actually is and how it works before replying that way you wont look so ill informed next time.

  • 151. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    BrokenBladez

    Do you play any other games online maccabi?  I've played against people in mexico on gears 3, on a battlefid 3 european sever, I've played halo against people in mexico, all with less lag than playing against peie playing within a few states of me in the game, and to an extent, black ops.  I think thats the point he's trying to get across.  I.E. - Their game is broken, matchmaking changes and lag comp tweeks will not fix it. 

  • 152. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    BrokenBladez

    I butchered that because im on my phone and the site will not allow me to edit... But i think ypu'll get the gist.

  • 153. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    maccabi

    BrokenBladez wrote:

     

    Do you play any other games online maccabi?  I've played against people in mexico on gears 3, on a battlefid 3 european sever, I've played halo against people in mexico, all with less lag than playing against peie playing within a few states of me in the game, and to an extent, black ops.  I think thats the point he's trying to get across.  I.E. - Their game is broken, matchmaking changes and lag comp tweeks will not fix it. 

    my friend has been driving around silverstone (a race track in thre uk) in supercars all day, i drove to my nearest town in my hatchback just now..  as my friend managed to go alot faster than me does this mean my car is broken?

     

    but seeing as you mentioned gears..

     

    everyone remember how bad gears 2 matchmaking was? theres still 100's of complaints about gow3 matchmaking btw...

    This is what the devs said about those issues anything sound familar here?

    "Our investigations have shown that the reported issue has to do with a very small minority of players with very poor network connections. When they attempt to host a matchmaking party, they are not able to find matches due to their high network latency. We could increase the ping threshold to allow these players to host but it would have an overall negative effect on the global Gears 2 community as they would begin finding games with greater latency. So while this isn't ideal for a tiny minority of players, it is much better overall for the majority of players. For the players that have this issue, the easiest answer is simply to join another player’s matchmaking party instead of trying to host one themselves.

     


  • 154. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    papaxs

    Mac,

    With all due respect, I don't see this TU fixing anything.  I play the game mostly solo and I see tons of lag. 

    As for parties the TU still does not take in consideration of everyones ping.  We are still going to playing with people who have good and bad internet (high/low pings). 

     

    The only thing I see fixing this games is, there needs to be limit for everyones ping to be in a lobby together, i.e, everyone can ping each other XBOX with <50ms ping, all play together. Then 50-100ms lobbies, 100-150ms lobbies. etc etc.

    It looks like MW3 tries to do this but it fails at it for what ever reason.  As for parties with people with all kinds of pings, well if you have bad internet, than you are the one that may be lagging not everyone else.

     

    The game is broke and I doubt there is anything IW can do to fix it.

     

    I am waiting for your TU to determine if I go back to Blops anytime soon, at least that game ran right for me.

  • 155. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    maccabi

    papaxs wrote:

     

    Mac,

    With all due respect, I don't see this TU fixing anything.  I play the game mostly solo and I see tons of lag. 

    As for parties the TU still does not take in consideration of everyones ping.  We are still going to playing with people who have good and bad internet (high/low pings). 

     

    The only thing I see fixing this games is, there needs to be limit for everyones ping to be in a lobby together, i.e, everyone can ping each other XBOX with <50ms ping, all play together. Then 50-100ms lobbies, 100-150ms lobbies. etc etc.

    It looks like MW3 tries to do this but it fails at it for what ever reason.  As for parties with people with all kinds of pings, well if you have bad internet, than you are the one that may be lagging not everyone else.

     

    The game is broke and I doubt there is anything IW can do to fix it.

     

    I am waiting for your TU to determine if I go back to Blops anytime soon, at least that game ran right for me.

    its not meant to "fix" the game its meant to fix the matchmaking , big difference. And as a result other parts of the game will be slightly better as parties are matched in better quality sessions.

    It isnt going to "fix" solo play what it will do is make solo play in team based games slightly better if anyone in the session is part of a party.

     

    you cannot make ping specific lobbies, the entire matchmaking system for parties would grind to a halt, this sort of specific matchmaking only works for solo play (ffa) and then only works if you are joining an already open session. You have to remember you arent joining a server (host) when matchmaking starts all the time, you're also trying to be matched with local (ie low ping players aswell)

     

    you comment about taking into consideration everyones ping in a party is the problem thats what matchmaking does now, hence i've fought and argued for it to be changed to the party leader only. as thats where the problem is.

     

    im going to highly simplify this so dont take any numbers as anything other than examples for ease of use ok.

     

    lets assume you have a 6 player party, with pings ranging from 50-100 . Lets also say the game uses 75ms as the cut off point to where lag comp is applied to a player.ie if you ping less than 74ms no lag comp has to be applied.

     

    currently the way matchmaking works is it will use the average of the entire party to find a session that average is 75. so automatically your party is excluded from 50ms sessions.

    you'll more likely then be dropped into a 75-100ms session. So instead of then only applying lag comp stuff to a couple of people in your party the chances are all  will, and the same for the other team or they will be in a "local" lobby so your team is then on a disadvanatge. Basically the host then is spinning plates trying to keep everyone in sync with wildly flucatuating ping ranges when it should only be needing to keep an eye on a few players. as everyone else is within the lag comp threshold.

  • 156. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    papaxs

    Thanks mac,

    I am hoping you are right on this one.  I am tired of, bad game, good game, bad, bad, bad, xbox off! lol.

    During solo play, lets say everyone is playing solo, no parties.  This TU will have no effect on this game and in theory a lobby such as this should not have any lag issues anyway???

  • 157. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    maccabi

    papaxs wrote:

     

    Thanks mac,

    I am hoping you are right on this one.  I am tired of, bad game, good game, bad, bad, bad, xbox off! lol.

    During solo play, lets say everyone is playing solo, no parties.  This TU will have no effect on this game and in theory a lobby such as this should not have any lag issues anyway???

    as it stands with this matchmaking change no it will have no effect for a solo play only playlist like ffa. But saying that the devs are currently going through every line of code in mw2 and mw3 to see what changes have been made so hopefully they will be able to pinpoint a few things to twiddle with that will give a postive result.

  • 158. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    wolverinecm71

    Thanks that explains ALOT !

  • 159. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    maccabi

    papaxs wrote:

     

    Thanks mac,

    I am hoping you are right on this one.  I am tired of, bad game, good game, bad, bad, bad, xbox off! lol.

    During solo play, lets say everyone is playing solo, no parties.  This TU will have no effect on this game and in theory a lobby such as this should not have any lag issues anyway???

    well ghandis said on the hotfix/tu thread that hes got the devs going back looking at the past two yrs worth of netcode changes.. so hopefully this will produce some possible changes as well (as they wouldnt be doing that if they didnt think there was an issue/ tweak that could be made)

     

    so we could be getting close to fingers crossed realms now

1 14 15 16 17 18 Previous Next