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  • 50. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    maccabi

    ghorman wrote:

     

    You can't monitor dropped packages (how do you know that packet was for you if you never recieved it) but you can filter on re-tranmission requests but that of course is not UDP.  Within the sniffer software you need to look for something like TCP sequence numbers.

    that was basically my point you cant monitor lost packets as theres no means, tcp yes as its an entirely different datagram, but assuming you find dropped tcp/ip packets on your connection doesnt automatically mean you suffer udp packet loss to it can but then theres so many different viariables with tcp/ip not least the way these types of packets are routed.

     

    This is one of the reasons the game has a form of character interpolation in the net code to account for lost packets as although you dont know if a packet arrives the game does know when its supposed to have gotten one as the server ticks are a set amount.

  • 51. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    ghorman

    Yes, but packets being dropped on the TCP side is a good indication if you are dealing with poor line quality and/or hardware issues.  And the game hiding the drop packets is another way the developers are covering up poor network code.  Its all smoke and mirrors.

  • 52. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    ghorman

    Looks like Ghandi just confirmed what I said about this not address the root cause of the out of sync issues.

     

    Thanks to to CAPP00 and maccabi for their video. We are making this change, which effectively reverts functionality to older MW style matchmaking, after a lot of debate internally. It's important to realize that this isn't a silver bullet to all synchronisation issues but it is true that the better the match made the better the experience should be for all because players should be more relatively in sync. However, this system relies upon some knowledge of how match making works in order to establish a regionally appropriate connection through manual intervention. There are many for whom this concept will not be common knowledge. We have the ability to revert the change instantly via backend settings if people are finding it an overall worse experience.

     

    We shall message the change through appropriate official channels when it is released. I suggest then would be the time to reach out to trusted community "voices" to help propagate the news in one fell swoop.

     

    Cheers,

     

    G IH A IN ID II

  • 53. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    maccabi

    ghorman wrote:

     

    Looks like Ghandi just confirmed what I said about this not address the root cause of the out of sync issues.

     

    Thanks to to CAPP00 and maccabi for their video. We are making this change, which effectively reverts functionality to older MW style matchmaking, after a lot of debate internally. It's important to realize that this isn't a silver bullet to all synchronisation issues but it is true that the better the match made the better the experience should be for all because players should be more relatively in sync. However, this system relies upon some knowledge of how match making works in order to establish a regionally appropriate connection through manual intervention. There are many for whom this concept will not be common knowledge. We have the ability to revert the change instantly via backend settings if people are finding it an overall worse experience.

     

    We shall message the change through appropriate official channels when it is released. I suggest then would be the time to reach out to trusted community "voices" to help propagate the news in one fell swoop.

     

    Cheers,

     

    G IH A IN ID II

    really i could've sworn he just said exactly what i already said that it isnt a magic bullet fix , but you go with your version if it makes you feel better. He didnt say anything about root causes..still they must think it will do something as they are doing it ...:P

  • 54. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    ghorman

    The only thing that it could do would bring the overall average ping down for the clients within a given lobby by putting them in a closer host. Which in turn might produce a better game experience but that is only for a party.  And this still doesn't explain why players are seeing a benefit from throttling their connections, which doesn't effect ping.  This patch is only addressing a symptom not the issue.  Its like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound with the bullet still in the body.

  • 55. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    CowboySr

    I watched the first 10 minutes of the video. I can see you guys put a lot of time into it. I have to say though that I am disappointed as I do not agree with your theory on how matchmaking is working except for when playing solo. I do not claim to have the expert knowledge like that of a Maccabi on the tech side of this game, but Ive put the majority of my 400 hours in this game playing with friends around all parts of the states.

     

    I am in Chicago, and play with a group of people from all over the states. Mostly Tampa, Conn, a couple from Chicago, North Dakota, ect..  I play mostly with people from Tampa and what I notice is that when they host, we are always matched up with people from Tampa. They can tell because they see the matching group icons all the time which sparks conversations in lobbys. When I host I see the Chicago groups almost all the time. Once and awhile when they(Tampa) hosts, it throws us into a Chicago Lobby, and vice versa. but never does it seem to throw us in between the two.

     

    So my concern based on your video is that we are currently on a system that you are trying to move us to. I was hoping to move towards your example of the former. As it stands when I play in a Tampa room, its laggy and unplayable at times. The same goes for them when we are in a Chicago room. It gets to the point where we dont even want to join each other at times.

  • 56. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    maccabi

    ghorman wrote:

     

    The only thing that it could do would bring the overall average ping down for the clients within a given lobby by putting them in a closer host. Which in turn might produce a better game experience but that is only for a party.  And this still doesn't explain why players are seeing a benefit from throttling their connections, which doesn't effect ping.  This patch is only addressing a symptom not the issue.  Its like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound with the bullet still in the body.

    no matchmaking is one of the main ISSUES for people having problems whether you choose to accept that or not is your pergoative. Seriously take a step back you really think they would do something as major as this change if they didnt think it would improve things? get real.

  • 57. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    ghorman

    maccabi wrote:

     

    ghorman wrote:

     

    The only thing that it could do would bring the overall average ping down for the clients within a given lobby by putting them in a closer host. Which in turn might produce a better game experience but that is only for a party.  And this still doesn't explain why players are seeing a benefit from throttling their connections, which doesn't effect ping.  This patch is only addressing a symptom not the issue.  Its like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound with the bullet still in the body.

    no matchmaking is one of the main ISSUES for people having problems whether you choose to accept that or not is your pergoative. Seriously take a step back you really think they would do something as major as this change if they didnt think it would improve things? get real.

    Yes, I think they are willing to try anything right now because they are out of ideas.  The game has been out for 6 months are they have been unable to fix the lag compensation issue with several patches already.

     

    If you play solo then match making is not an issue if the game behaves like you said in the video.  You can't have it both ways.  Also there are plenty of times when one of my friends is the host and the game is still out of sync.  He is on the same ISP within 25 miles and we still have out of sync issues.  With your logic I shouldn't see any issues because I have like a 20-40 ping to the host.  Something else is going on behind the scenes with the lag compensation outside of match making. 

  • 58. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation
    maccabi

    CowboySr wrote:

     

    I watched the first 10 minutes of the video. I can see you guys put a lot of time into it. I have to say though that I am disappointed as I do not agree with your theory on how matchmaking is working except for when playing solo. I do not claim to have the expert knowledge like that of a Maccabi on the tech side of this game, but Ive put the majority of my 400 hours in this game playing with friends around all parts of the states.

     

     

    its not a theory thats how matchmaking works now and is going to work after the change,

     

    CowboySr wrote:

     

     

     

    I am in Chicago, and play with a group of people from all over the states. Mostly Tampa, Conn, a couple from Chicago, North Dakota, ect..  I play mostly with people from Tampa and what I notice is that when they host, we are always matched up with people from Tampa. They can tell because they see the matching group icons all the time which sparks conversations in lobbys. When I host I see the Chicago groups almost all the time. Once and awhile when they(Tampa) hosts, it throws us into a Chicago Lobby, and vice versa. but never does it seem to throw us in between the two.

    In the scenerio you just described you wont really notice much difference apart from you will be able to chose WHERE you would prefer to play, you make the tampa guy leader you play local to him , chicago guy leader you'd play in that local region.. ect. This change wont effect already open lobbies.. if you are already in a lobby and one of your tampa guys is the lobby host anyone who joins will be more than likely local anyways.

    The fact you just said it still throws you back to a chicago lobby/host is why they are changing it it shouldnt do that .

     

     

    CowboySr wrote:

     

     

    So my concern based on your video is that we are currently on a system that you are trying to move us to. I was hoping to move towards your example of the former. As it stands when I play in a Tampa room, its laggy and unplayable at times. The same goes for them when we are in a Chicago room. It gets to the point where we dont even want to join each other at times.

    unfortunately nothing will ever change that its not a game issue its a distance issue..longer distance =higher ping, where this new matchmaking system will help abit is there will be less "lag comp" applied to players in the lobby and theoretically only to the players who fall outside the ping threshold to require some form of lag comp applied to them.

     

    lif you in chicago and you ping 100ms to a lobby in tampa but everyone pings 50ms (using rounded off simplified numbers) there is nothing that can be done about the fact you are potentially 25 ms behind everyone else (25ms one way trip of an update) the difference is though you will know if the tampa guy is party leader you will prolly be in a tampa lobby and 3 barring it up but with less people to manipulate via lag comp additions you should find the game slightly more playable.

     

    and before some bright spark comes back with ping can be wildly different depending on the direction ie a 50ms ping could be 10ms there and 40 back) it was a example not a fact

  • 59. Re: Matchmaking Changes - Lag Compensation

    Hope this helps match makeing live in N.Ireland 33ms ping to server in south of England and nearly always end up playing with europeans this matchmakeing system misses that big islands that house England, Scotland and Wales

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