7 Replies Latest reply: Jun 29, 2012 11:20 PM by bigal093 RSS

Weapon Balance Suggestion--Not sure where to post.

I've got a massive list of Weapon Balance Suggestions, and i'm not sure if there is a thread or something to post this in. I know that the team is going to be taking a hard look at Weapon Balance soon, and i was really hoping to get my input heard by somebody at IW.



MW3 Weapon Balance Suggestion

This is what needs to be done to make this game balanced and I’d really appreciate it if ONE person from IW read this and took into account what I feel about this game, and the work I put into these suggestions. Thank You.


This is in order by gun class, not which guns need balanced the most(I will put a star next to what I believe needs the most attention) If nobody reads any of this, the one THING I REALLY REALLY REALLY WANT is my suggestion way towards the bottom about quickdraw. IT SHOULD NOT APPLY TO SNIPERS!!!!


Assault Rifles

  1. 1) M4A1 – Increase it’s damage dropoff start and end point from 800-1400 to 900-1500. This increase would allow it to gain a slightly more effective range, since its only current effective range is before 1,036u. This boost would not outclass the scar however, because it would still be the superior choice from 1,136u to 1,600u.


  1. 2) Scar-L – Swap its rate of fire with the G36C. So instead of 750rpm it would become 769rpm. I believe this is necessary because the Scar is outclassed by the G36 in every way as it currently stands. And the G36C is effective past 1,600u while the SCAR-L struggles.


  1. 3) *CM901* – Change its Vertical Recoil numbers to mirror that of the AK47. So it would go from (-40,85) to (-30,60), However keep its centerspeed at 1450(very slightly better than the AK47). What I believe that this would accomplish is that the CM901 would now be slightly and probably not even noticeably more accuracte than the AK47, however it shoots slower and has less range, making it less powerful than the AK47. The reason I believe this is balanced, and not just two weapons that are exactly the same is that the CM901 has very good iron sights while the AK47’s are quite obstructive. This would allow a user to rely on optic attachments less for the CM901, possibly freeing it up for a different attachment.


  1. 4) G36C – As previously mentioned, swap its RoF with the Scar-L. So it would now become 750rpm as opposed to 769rpm. The G36 has very  predictable and controllable recoil making it very easy to control in the hands of a capable player. Coupled with its high power at range, this makes a very powerful all around weapon, that could use this slight nerf. Its not much, but I believe it would make a big difference.


  1. 5) ACR 6.8 – This is the one gun that is overused and abused on consoles and it gets incredibly annoying. I believe to fix this gun’s balance it doesn’t need to be completely taken apart, I think a few small changes could go a long way. So I suggest increasing its reload time to about 2.4 seconds, and a small but noticeable increase in vertical recoil. This would combat all of the campers using ACRs with kick, shooting a laser, reloading immediately and continuing to shoot. It would allow the gun to be slightly less accurate, while still maintaining superior range to most other weapons, without also getting the advantage of having an incredibly fast reload.


  1. 6) AK47 – leave as is.


  1. 7) *FAD* – The FAD is supposed to fill the role of SMG hybrid but it lacks effectiveness at close range because all other primaries are killing in 3 shots as opposed to 4 with the FAD. Given that increasing its damage would most likely be too powerful, my solution is to enhance its SMG characteristics and decrease the reload time. I would start by decreasing its hipspread to be a middle ground between the Assault Rifle and SMG categories, As well as increasing its movement speed from 90% to 95%. This would truly make it a hybrid between the two categories. Still even with that, it has many drawbacks power-wise. To help even the score, I think it is necessary to decrease the reload time to fall in line with the average assult rifle. (around 2.3 or 2.4sec)


  1. 8) *Type 95/M16* – The Type 95 completely outclasses the M16. It just isn’t fair, so I’d suggest a simple solution. Make them both shoot at 900rpm(within bursts obviously). This makes the Type 95 still the best option close range, but the M16 now becomes better at any longer ranges. The perfect balance.



Submachine Guns


  1. 1) *MP5* – The MP5 is not a horrible gun, but it is outclassed in every way by the P90. To help even the score, I think it needs a little bit more range. So to help extend the range of the MP5 I’d like to increase its maximum damage from 42 to 47. This would add a reason to actually use the MP5 over the P90, however the P90 would still be far superior with a 50 bullet mag and faster Rate of Fire. So to help give the MP5 some more of an advantage, I believe it needs its centerspeed increased from 1650 to 1725. This is a small but helpful adjustment that I believe would make one think long and hard between the MP5 and P90. The P90 would still probably be the better gun by a little, but it is unlocked much later, so that is warranted. This way there are at least a few reasons to use the MP5.


  1. 2) *UMP45* - The UMP45 is not effective at any range barring a small area of effectiveness that is barely noticeable. It does not seem to have a role in this game. To Increase its effectiveness to the levels of the other SMGs I think its Minimum damage should be raised from 17 to 20. This would allow it to kill in 5 bullets at range as opposed to 6. Also I think its centerspeed should be increased from 1550 to 1650. These changes would help highlight the UMP45’s advantages; accuracy and range. As it currently stands the UMP is supposed to be the one SMG that has a range advantage, but that is offset by its poor damage past 825u. This way it is the 2nd most accurate SMG and has the most range of all the SMGs. These are big advantages, but they are offset by its poor RoF at 750rpm, worse than some assult rifles. These changes, coupled with its AR bullet penetration advantage, I believe the UMP45 would be a viable SMG to compete in ranges that some SMGs can’t reach, but still being below average at closer ranges.


  1. 3) *PP90M1* - As it currently stands, the PP90M1 is far superior to any other weapon close range and often beats even shotguns, especially with Rapid Fire. It is too powerful. While the PM-9 has many handicaps to counteract its great close range power, the PP90M1 seems to have none. To make it more balanced, I suggest decreasing its Maximum damage to 35 and decreasing its centerspeed to 1550. These are not huge changes, but would be effective changes to limiting its power. The damage being at 35 would lower its effective range by a small but noticeable amount. Enough to create some separation from it and the other SMGs past around 600u. Also as it is this gun is very accurate, enough to actually get long range kills in assault rifle ranges. To combat that I believe lowering its centerspeed to 1550 would make the recoil sporadic enough to keep the gun extremely effective at closer ranges, as it is designed, while stopping it from being the total powerhouse that it currently is.


  1. 4) P90 – Leave as is.


  1. 5) *PM-9* – Currently the PM-9 has no real advantage over the PP90M1, and is widely considered one of the least effective guns in the game. Its role is that of a shotgun, that has the ability to still have some remnence of ability past its effective range. But as it is, its effective range combined with its horrible recoil makes it a very underused gun. So to help fill its role better, I think its maximum damage should be increased to 49. This would make its damage dropoff steep, so that it would maintain much better effectiveness in its intended range but not overstepping its bounds since it would at a disadvantage past 500-600u. Also to give it more of an advantage at extremely close range over the PP90M1, its Rate of Fire should be increased from 1090rpm to 1125 rpm. This would make it the better option before about 500u. Also to give it a little bit more effectiveness past 600u, its horizontal and vertical recoil should be decreased by 5 each. What I mean by that is it should go from (-75, 75) and (-50, 80) to (-70, 70) and (-45, 75). I think these changes make it deadly in its designed role, but not very effective beyond that, while the PP90M1 would still be effective slightly beyond the PM-9’s effective range, making you really have to choose between the PP90M1 and the PM-9 as opposed to now where the PP90M1 is the obvious choice. Also on a side note, it needs to have a much faster raise time, like the G36. It should have the exact same raise and drop values as the G36 does now(.5 and .3), and the G36 should have the PM-9’s current values. This would make it valuable for overkill.


  1. 6) *MP7* – Next to the ACR, this is the most abused gun on consoles, and the single best gun on PC. It clearly needs to be more balanced. I think with the MP7 the solution is simple. It currently is far too effective at long ranges for an SMG, so the easy solution is to decrease its minimum damage to 17. This would be perfect for the gun, because it would maintain close range effectiveness, and it would still be viable at longer ranges for an SMG due to its incredible pinpoint accuracy, however making it take 6 bullets to kill past 667u would take skill to take down that guy at longer range. Getting that 6th bullet would be tough, but it would still maintain such amazing accuracy that it would make it a solid all around option, while not exceling in any range. It would be a very good all around weapon.


Light Machine Guns

These were already patched, but there is a real imbalance here, there is LITERALLY NO REASON to use any LMG except the L86, so that brings me to the L86


  1. 1) *L86 LSW* – This one is simple, decrease its minimum damage to 20, making it 5 shots at range. This single handedly fixes the LMG balance issue. I would also suggest not extending its 3 hit kill range past 1,000u. Reason being, the L86 is incredibly accurate, second only to the MP7, so it will still be extremely effective at its 4 hit kill range, however adding the 4th bullet really gives you a reason to use another LMG instead. But leaving it at 4 bullets at range would cause many problems that I will explain when I discuss the MK46.


  1. 2) *MK46* – Ok, so the problem with making the L86 4 hits at range as opposed to 5 is that it is incredibly accurate and has a far better reload time than the MK46 as well as much better iron sights. So the MK46 must take one less bullet to kill at range than the L86, but if you leave it at 3 bullets at range, then there is no reason to use the PKP Pecheng or the MG36 over the MK46. So that means the MK46 needs to take 4 bullets to kill at range, meaning in turn the L86 need to take 5. This is similar to the original LMG balance, but the problem then was never the L86 or the MK46, they were still very, very effective against other guns, but the PKP, MG36, and M60 were terrible. This way you keep the current power of those 3 guns but you decrease the power of the MK46 and L86 which are the only LMGs that ANYBODY ever uses.


  1. 3) M60E4 – This is simple, the M60 has far more recoil than any of the LMGs as well as the worst automatic Fire Rate in the entire game, coupled with a very long reload time. So I think as it stands this gun is outclassed, even at close range, where it is intended to be effective. I think the only solution is to make it 2 shots to kill at all ranges. This would change it from a close range LMG to a more traditional defensive LMG role. This gun has so much recoil and shoots so slow, the 2 shots at range would be very hard to actually land, making the gun very balanced within the LMG class and the Game.


  1. 4) PKP Pecheneg and MG36 – LEAVE AS IS.


Sniper Rifles

  1. 1)      *Barrett .50cal/AS50* – Make a 545rpm fire cap for both of these guns(like the MK14. The AS50’s sway advantage only in its default scope, is not enough to compete with Barrett. This way you cannot hip fire spam the Barrett and get kills, and the AS50 is basically the same gun. People who prefer the low scope zoom and less sway can use the AS50, while pure snipers who want more zoom will go with the Barrett. Also give them both 8 bullet mags instead of 10. 10 is too much and it outclasses the Dragunov.
  2. 2)      Dragunov – I understand that It was deemed that the Dragunov should be accurate and low power like the RSASS, but this doesn’t create balance in my opinion. This is not something the game needs, but it would really add something if the dragunov could OSK to the chest, and then get its original recoil back. Also it should OSK to the head with a silencer. Otherwise its just an RSASS clone, but if it must be a clone, it  doesn’t hurt the game, I just don’t think it adds anything to it.


Oh, where to start…


  1. 1) *SPAS-12, Model 1887, KSG* – These all need to have their max pellet damage raised to 34 and the end of their damage dropoff increased by 100. So the SPAS and Model’s dropoff would start at the same range but would end at 800u instead of 700u. and the KSG would be 700u instead of 600u. The pump action shotguns are weak, and very hard to use, especially with bad connection. When accurately aimed, the shotguns should kill anything before 500u. This is currently not the case, but it needs to be. It would still take skill to kill anything past very close range, but as it is now, the shotguns are completely outclassed in every way by the SMGs as a whole.
  2. 2) USAS-12 – This shotgun should have its damage dropoff endpoint increased to 800 too, but its damage should be kept in tact. This would create balance in the class.
  3. 3) *AA-12* – This gun is an absolute joke, it is the worst shotgun at every range, period. Its maximum damage should be increased from 15 to 20, making it kill in 5 pellets up close. This does not create a problem due to its horrible hip spread. Also its Damage dropoff should be increased from (250-450) to (350-550). Also it should get more reserve ammo, the same as every other shotgun. This would make the AA-12 what it is supposed to be, the best gun at extremely close range, but completely incapable of doing anything at all past about 450-550u. as it is now its basically a knife that takes up your primary slot.
  4. 4) Striker – damage dropoff increased from 300-600 to 300-700, also increase its hipspread to 6 degrees like the Model 1887. It still only has 6 pellets so it won’t be overpowered, but will still be effective past the AA-12’s range, but not as effective at the pump shotgun’s ranges.




-*ALL HANDGUNS*(except Desert Eagle) need to get their minimum damage increased from 17 to 20. The MP412 should have its minimum damage increased to 24 instead, so that if you hit the chest, it can be a 4 shot kill at range.


  • *DESERT EAGLE* – Increase its minimum damage to 33, so that to the chest it can kill in 3 shots at range. Small boost to centerspeed, probably about 100. This would make the Desert Eagle the most powerful and still least accurate handgun, but would make it useable by increasing its centerspeed. Also it need to get 16 bullets reserve ammo when akimbo so that it can reload once and still fill both guns.
  • *MP9* –
  • Skorpion – MP9 outclasses it currently, so swap mag size, so that it has 32. This combined with the Nerfs to the MP9 would make it fair.
  • G18 – Make this gun Quickswap like the Handguns(i.e. the gun you’re switching from gets quickdrop). Also decrease its reload time from 2.3 to 1.9
  • *FMG-9* – maximum damage decreased to 33 but headshot multiplier increased to 2.0. This way it kills in 4 bullets, is much more powerful than the MP9 close range still, and can kill in 2 bullets to the head. Its big advantage is its huge clip. So compared to the G18 its worse close range, but not if its to the head. It has a far bigger clip however and much more range. Its also a 5 hit kill at range while the G18 is 6.


-*Stability* – decreased sway by 50% instead of 25%(except on snipers, where it is 30%)

-*Melee* – decreases recovery time by 50% instead of 35%

These two proficiencies are completely outclassed by the others and NEED a boost to make them more competitive.


-******FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, QUICKDRAW SHOULD NOT APPLY TO SNIPERS!!!!!! PLEASE I’M BEGGING YOU!****** Nothing makes me more mad than being quickscoped, but if someone did it to me without quickdraw, I would respect it, because it takes a lot of skill. But with quickdraw, it is just too prevalent and it RUINS the game. It is not condusive to real sniping. Removing quickdraw would really make people snipe, not quickscope.

- Switch Quickdraw pro and Sleight of hand pro. It just makes more sense and its pointless to be able to swap faster when you also reload twice as fast. Make Quickdraw pro swap faster, and sleight of hand pro throw things faster.

- *Assassin* – This perk is fine, except it shouldn’t make you immune to EMP and EMP grenades. It also should not make you invisible to Portable Radar or Heartbeat.

- *Dead Silence* - Like MW2 with Ninja, Dead Silence PRO should make you invisible to Heartbeat and Portable Radar, in addition to no falling damage. This would really help the perk balance.


If anybody read to this point, i thank you very much.

  • Re: Weapon Balance Suggestion--Not sure where to post.

    About the m16 and type 95, it would not be prefect balance. The maps in this game are tight and you make make more use of higher higher close range damage. Plus making them both 900 RPM would just make them too much of clones of each other. I would suggest buffing the M16's RoF to around 875, then either swaping its max range damage with the type 95, or making the M16 3 hit kills at all ranges and dropping the type's close range damage down to 49. Otherwise, good suggestions.

    • Re: Weapon Balance Suggestion--Not sure where to post.

      Here's the thing though, they would hardly be clones of each other for two reasons. The Type 95 2 hit kills close range, and 5 hit kills long range. This would still make the Type 95 the CLEAR choice up close to a decent distance, and the M16 would be the Clear Choice at long range. Also the M16 with rapid fire has less recoil than the Type 95 without it. So increasing them both to 900 would make the M16 more accurate(just slightly) due to its higher centerspeed. and if you put rapid fire on it, it would become even more accurate. (that is a phenomenom hard to explain where high rpm guns will actually fire a 2nd shot before their recoil can fully kick in, causing them to be more accurate.) you can test this by putting rapid fire on the M16 or Type 95, as well as most SMGs and then firing a few bursts at a wall. The guns with rapid fire will actually be more accurate than the guns without it. Not by much, but by a little bit.

  • Re: Weapon Balance Suggestion--Not sure where to post.

    I kind of skimmed through a bit so please understand this comment may be prone to change.


    The shotgun damage should probably be changed to at least 40 because if the damage is only 34 then using the damage prof is absolutely useless for close range.


    With the M60 having a 2 shot kill at all ranges, I think this is a no go. I think just having a very long 2 hit kill range would be fine and then being 3 hit kill minimum (Maybe a 50-45 damage profile). With the LSW I would be rather disappointed if the far range damage was made into a 5 hit kill but I do see why it is balanced.


    Also one thing should be said is that the difference between a 34 damage gun and a 49 damage gun is simply head shot damage. Its not really buffing a gun by giving it a stronger 3 hit kill.



    I also agree with Moab's point.

    • Re: Weapon Balance Suggestion--Not sure where to post.

      The M60 doesn't have an infinite 2 shot kill range. Its 50-35. Just to let you know.

      • Re: Weapon Balance Suggestion--Not sure where to post.

        I messed up the phrasing a little bit, I was referring to the proposed buff. I didn't know it was 50-35 though.


        Might actually be fair to make it a 2 hit kill at any range.

        • Re: Weapon Balance Suggestion--Not sure where to post.

          As far as the M60 thing goes, when i just now though about it, i was tempted to agree with you, but then i though about the MK14. The MK14 has a very very long 2hk range, with a very similar fire cap to the M60's RoF, in fact with rapid fire, you can even shoot it faster than the M60. Now thinking about the MK14, it is not overpowered. It is a very powerful gun in the hands of a skilled player, but not overpowered. An M60 with infinate 2hk would basically be an MK14 with a worse hip spread, slower ADS time and waaaaaaay more recoil. The M60 already 2hks to close range, and anything past that you have to burst it for accuracy. At long range you would basically need to use it like a semiauto gun, shooting one bullet at a time because of the very high recoil. And as i just pointed out, the MK14 already does that with less recoil, better hip spread, faster ADS, and also more movement speed. And a 100 bullet clip doesn't come in too much handy at super long range where you can easily find cover to reload. The M60 isn't OP close range as it is, so its not like thats up for discussion. I think an infinate 2HK would be perfectly fair.

    • Re: Weapon Balance Suggestion--Not sure where to post.

      I Will point out that i just kind of threw this together the other night while thinking about how to correctly balance the game, its hardly perfect. These are really just my first thoughts, any criticism at all is perfectly fine with me.


      To Ryuakson's point about the shotguns, the reason i feel that 34 damage is a good number is because the bare shotguns are just horrible. They get so many hitmarkers that i feel the pump shotguns need that 3 pellet kill. BUT the reason i wouldn't go higher is because i think it would lead to them actually being too consistent up close.


      I don't think that this makes the damage proficiency underpowered at all though. It has multiple advantages in this system over range. First off, it would go a long way in really getting rid of any kind of hitmarker before the dropoff, something that many people now cite as the biggest problem with the shotugns. Range would not help you until that dropoff point. It would also be fair to point out that since i added 100u on to each pump shotgun's range, you don't necessarily need the range proficiency. I think as it is now, the range proficiency is completely outclassed on most shotguns by the damage proficiency. A big reason for that is the fact that you don't gain damage when using specialist, but you do gain range. This makes damage a clear choice.


      In my system i believe range becomes a more viable option given that you don't gain a pellet either way. Range would be on the same level as damage, except if you're using specialist where damage would still be the best choice.