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  • 460. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3



    NOTE: Unless otherwise stated, I'm talking about pumps only.


    "SG's are not meant to have safe guards like the rest of the weapons they are surprise weapons when used in the right way. You are not meant to be trying to face of against another player directly with them unless at their max damage range. Anything else and you are meant to loose."


    I agree that you aren't supposed to try and go face to face against an enemy if they can see you coming, but with good/perfect aim, if the Shotgun user fires first (within a reasonable range), they should always kill first. If you have a pump action and don't kill first, you die. Plain and simple. It's what should be the same outcome for using a Bolt-Action Sniper at close range. If I successfully flank someone, get close enough to almost be in knifing range, line up a perfect center-mass shot on a still target that's standing with no obstructions, I should get a OSK every time without exception. If only to at least half their effective max damage range...


    "The reason why the pumps feel so bad in this game is time between shots. If they fired faster there would be less porblems. Which is why the striker does so well. If the time between rounds was doubled on the striker even with it being a semi it would not be nearly as good as it is now."


    That would be a big help, yes, but unless the pump time is reduced to something that may as well be auto or semi-auto with no pump (think USAS), that's a bandaid fix that ignores the original and main problem: consistency.


    Let's take the slowest killing Primary weapon in the game, assuming all shots hit within effective range: the CM901. It's TTK assuming all shots hit is 0.18 seconds. If 1 shot misses, that time is increased to 0.27 seconds. Even if the CM901 required 12 shots to kill, it would would still kill in 0.99 seconds. So, for a weapon requiring 3 shots to kill within it's effective range, it can miss 9 shots before it's TTK goes close to 1 second. Compare that to the SPAS. It's TTK, assuming you aim correctly and have enough pellets hit the target, is basically 0. You pull the trigger, the enemy is dead. If you don't get enough pellets for whatever reason (EG: aimed badly, or more likely, you get a bad pellet spread), it takes a full second to pump and fire again.


    Yes, reducing the pump would help get the second shot off, but why change that when that's not the original problem?


    Again, point to me any other weapon class in MW3 that has a disadvantage/weakness that can NOT be controlled by the player somehow (ignoring lag). Sniper Rifles are the only class that you can even begin to compare to Shotguns. I'd love to see the stats of the Bolt-Action Sniper Rifles on average across all of the Xbox 360 and PS3 Elite players compared to that of the Pump/Lever Shotguns. I'nm sure even if you found some way to isolate only the QSers, the stats would probably be better for the Snipers overall than the Shotgunners. Shouldn't that be a big clue that, when thinking "what is the best CQC weapon?" that a weapon meant for long range engagements is usually considered equal to or better than Shotguns?

  • 461. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    One thing I notice about these clips is that in each, your opponent is shooting at you.  Could this result in enough of a flinch to throw your aim off just slightly.  This could result in half the pellets missing the target, and a legit hitmarker.


    I've felt with other guns that flinch will effect the accuracy of the shot before the animation "catches up".

  • 462. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    I have, as I'm guessing others have as well, had cases where I shoot first, center mass, perfect aim and still got hitmarkers at ranges where they should not happen.


    Flinch could have something to do with it, but I didn't think flinch affected hip-fire that much as I've never noticed a huge kick from flinching on any Shotguns or SMGs while hip firing.

  • 463. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    i think a big way to improve shotguns would be to greatly decrease the spread when in ADS, this would allow for more damage at longer ranges (more pellets would hit at range if the spread was less) and more OHK at close range due to a direct hit missing no pellets whatsoever.

  • 464. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    Like what the Stakeout and HS10 do in BO.

  • 465. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3



    Doesn't explain these.

  • 466. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    tightening the spread will not effect the close range hitmarker problem.  Even with steady aim and a prefectly centered shot you can still get a hitmarker like this.

    The first shot the dude's head is almost the entire spread.  Tightening while ads to near steady aim levels will not positively impact shotgun reliability.  It Might however do something for that second shot.  I do think ads should tighten the spread, as stated in the buff proposal in this thread.  But that is more to make the shotguns less reliant on steady aim and to give people a reason to ads at all.

  • 467. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

                                                                                                                                                    Even the W1200 in CoD4 had a 2-pellets kill with stopping power and no one complained about it. In World at War there was the double barreled shotgun that also had a 2-pellet kill. When you had a good connection you got 1 shot kill in the maximum damage range 99,99% of the time (enemies with juggernaut excluded). With a buff to a 3 pellet kill in mw3 steady aim, range would be less needed. With damage you get a 2-pellet kill (stopping power at close range- non stopping power at long range, almost every other weapon go after this formula). Trialstartragon testifies does not make any sense, he is a terrible shotgunner. I have a 2.71 kd, about 10.000 kills with the USAS12+damage+extended mags (also got many MOABs with it, and a double MOAB last month) and with skills you have the most dominant weapon within 15m. The striker is a great weapon weapon and can be lethal with skilled hands. All the other shotguns are worthless.

  • 468. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    Even on a 4 bar connection you get hitmarkers. I have a lot of experience with the pump shotguns- I know what I speak about. We said that several times and you say that every time again. It would be the same if I would speak german with you, we would get the same results, you would not understand it. Whats your opinion on the sniper rifles?

  • 469. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    I randomly see a commentary of you about the review of the AA12 with raging amish. He did always great reviews, but at this time he does believe that the AA12 is a good weapon. I have one question to you: Do you know the damage and range of the trench gun in cod3. I could not find stats.