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  • 470. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    He said he liked the weapon,not that it was good.  He was wrong with its kill time stats though.  He assumed the aa12 only took 3 shots max to kill when it actually takes 5 with daage and 6 with anything else at its max range.  I did laugh how he said its arguably the best weaon for cqc.

     

    I believe its the same as cod 2 at 50-5 damage X 8 pellets 384-800 range.  Interestingly the spread appearently tightens while ads with it in cod 3.

  • 472. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    Here is some data that a user on den gathered about weapon usage on ps3.  This data for the most part mirrors what I have gathered from the gamer tags provided in previous shotgun balance threads and random elite profiles from people I played online.

     

    http://denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=510 6&page=1#107526

     

    The Lmgs and shotguns are by far the lowest used weapons.  But the lmgs see fairly even use for every lmg.  The top Lmg (L86) at 66000 kills and the bottom lmg (pkp) at 35000 kills.  The difference between the top used shotgun (striker) at 271000 kills and the least used shotgun (aa12) at 32000 kills.  240000 kill difference.  That's not good.

     

    Now remeber 2 things the striker was a much more common sight before the "shotgun rebalance" due to it being awesome with the emags glitch.  So since the patch its usage in multiplayer has dropped significantly.  And secondly the striker is an infected gun.  This massively inflates its usage stats.  I would put striker usage after the patch and not counting infected at about 100000 (I mean if the striker was never on emag roids and was never in infected I would bet its usage numbers would be around there).  That's a pretty safe estimate.  So that drops total shotgun usage down to around 332000.  Compare that number to the usage number of smgs at a little over 3000000.  And you see that smgs are used over 9 times as much as shotguns.  Again not good.  The p90 alone has 500000 kills to it.

     

    Now for average k/d.  I will throw out the striker because it was in infected gun so its stats would be artificially inflated.  The average unweighted smg k/d is 1.02

     

    The average unweighted shotgun k/d is .91.  That is not particularly suprising.  But when you consider that this was long data was gathered long after the shotgun buff but before the smg/AR buff you see that the shotgun data is likely quite accurate but the pm9, mp5, and ump have since been buffed no doubt increasing their respective k/ds. 

     

    Over all I find it disturbing that the shotguns that are among the lowest used weapons (throwing out the striker and usas they are the least used) and lowest performing weapons have not been buffed but the smgs which have much better usage numbers and average k/d were buffed.  Maybe IW is just a little lazy and they don't want to change shotguns twice.  Because they cannot make the argument that they are balanced weapons. 

     

    I particularly feel like there is a lack of communication about why these discrepancies exist at all.  Why is it that any discussion about this is ignored?  These are important issues that fundamentally determine how this game is being played.  For a game that was advertised as the most balanced cod game to date these statistics certainly suggest that goal was not pursued after release.  And I for one want to know why.  Especially when weapon balance is concrete enough to outright fix for almost everyone, unlike connection issues.

  • 473. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3
    ho2rse

    They have never buffed them. The KSG and USAS are just easier to level, the SPAS got a minimum damage buff, but the reliability is lost even with damage. The AA12 got nerfed heavily and the Model was untouched.

  • 474. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    My major gripe is that they aren't even saying we are wrong.  They aren't disputing our data or our conclusions.  They know how poorly balanced the shotguns are.  But they are too self absorbed to follow up on anything that isn't networking related.  They have the time to remove a picture frame from favela but not enough time to balance the weapons in their current title?  Customer satisfaction means little to them unless it directly impacts their bottom line. 

     

    It seems wrong to me to have intelligent discussion unexplored.  Broken promises and incompetent performance seems to be the legacy that IW wants to leave behind with mw3.

  • 475. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3
    trialstardragon

    They do not have to say your wrong or give reasons. They are the developer of the game, what they decide is final regardless if you agree to it or not. They do not have to give reasons why if they do not feel the need to just because you may want them too.

  • 476. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3
    trialstardragon

    All of the other scatterguns are not worthless you just have to adjust how you play with them compared to the striker. Get about 5 feet closer for those long shots and they do better. Do not get point blank aka 0 feet away either.

     

    The real problem is no one wants to adjust how they play from previous games to the SG's in this game. They want to continue to play the same and not adapt or change anything. And that should not be the case. You are meant to learn and adapt and change each game to the weapons and not expect them to perform the exact same from game to game, regardless if the name of the gun is the same or not.

     

    Same problem Reach had with the Halo 3 fans that did not want to adjust to the weapons in Reach and cried that they did not work the same as the weapons in Halo 3.

     

    Never expect a gun to work the same form game to game even if the gun looks the same or has the same name. Always expect to have to adjust and adapt playstyle to meet the new gun and not expect the developers to adjust the gun to meet your preffered playstyle instead.

  • 477. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3

    Please tell me how I can adapt to compensate for this. 

     

    I would love to know.

     

    Also I find it funny how you talk about shotgunners needing to adapt.  What other class in mw3 needs to adapt?  ARs, smgs, snipers, and lmgs all function relatively the same as in previous titles.  No major changes to adapt to.  So why only shotguns?

  • 478. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3
    Seph009

    I've said this before and I'll say it again tsd, how can you give anyone shotgun advice when your overall kd is negative and you do worse with shotguns than any other gun type. Tell me, oh wise one, how do I adapt to my gun having inconsistent shots to that can take between 1-5 shots to kill when it takes one second to fire off each shot if any other weapon type can kill me ten times over in between each pump? Inconsistency will get you killed no matter what you do with the pumps, the same can't be said about the other gun types. Sure, you miss with them but when you're firing 800+ rpm does it matter? It's truly hilarious that you could run around hipfiring with a pp90 and kill people at longer ranges than the shotties could instantly.

  • 479. Re: Shotgun Balance Thread v3
    slap1i

    Shotguns are a niche weapon that one wouldn't expect would be able to compete with SMG or AR on anything besides close range combat.  If you're pushing the limits of their range, you should expect some hitmarkers.    I don't think of these as inconsistencies, but as partial hits due to spead at range.  As a shotgun user, you should know not to engage enemies at that distance.

     

    The Stiker with e-mag glitch was indeed overpowered.  While it may have been fun (I can't say, as I swore off the Stiker once it was deemed OP'd), it created an imbalance.  There is a fine line between being underpowered/overpowered with OHK guns, and it's probably best for them to error on the underpowered side.  Shotguns can be used effectively for certain gametypes, but you shouldn't expect to have a great K/D.  That doesn't mean you can't use them how they are intended.