48 Replies Latest reply: Sep 11, 2012 12:16 AM by vims1990 RSS

Millimeter Scanner

KTPhoenix

Now I know that this has attachment has been discussed, but not in the way I am about to question it.

 

We know the millimeter scanner will allow us to see stationary objects and people through walls and smoke. This is a great tool against campers......or is it? I am kind of concerned because if this attachment was to help people kill campers, then why make Cold Blooded counter this attachment? To me this seems counter-productive. Once people reach the level to get CB or however they plan on doing the unlock system, then the attachment to see these people will be pointless to have.

 

I dont understand this. I know most things in the game have to have a counter to it, but I dont see the point in putting in an attachment that helps against camping when at the same time they give a perk that counters that attachment. The only way I see this to be effective is if they give us a perk that counters CB. Otherwise, the scanner is pointless.

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner
    grif77775

    As good as this attachment sounds I can't see it being a big feature. With SOH, Impact, steady aim, etc all becoming attachments the scanner seems like it would be used on a dedicated camping busting class and ats all. I can't see to many players wasting 1 slot on this when they could have quickdraw or adjustable stock

    • Re: Millimeter Scanner
      KTPhoenix

      I understand what you are saying, but that is not my point. With CB being in this game, it seems kind of pointless to have a Scanner if it is rendered useless by a perk unless there is something else that counters CB.

       

      I know the UAV will be able to counter seeing as how Ghost only protects those who are on the move, but I dont feel like having to waste my time doing 2 things to get 1 thing done. It seems like too much work to me and it doesnt feel as though it would not be satisfying.

      • Re: Millimeter Scanner
        grif77775

        I'm not disagreeing you. I'm backing up your argument that the scanner is pointless. You have said about cold blooded and I was saying there's better choices out there.

        Yes there are certain cases where it could become useful but for the most part it's pointless for these 2 reasons

        • Re: Millimeter Scanner
          KTPhoenix

          Ok, sorry for not understanding right away. You do have a point. What is it with Treyarch and IW? Why do they keep making and putting in things you think will help but turn around and make that same thing pointless by countering it when the counter has no counter?

          • Re: Millimeter Scanner
            grif77775

            certain things do need countered. EG)  UAV's are very easy to aquire and are very powerful in the right hands thats why they need to be countered, so they don't become Over powered.

             

            This scanner sounded like it would be a personal uav when it was first mentioned, and fears that it would be OP spread like wild fire. Knowing that Cold blooded counters this stops the community from worrying about player abusing this. When in actual fact the scanner seems to be one of the least useful attachments in the game.

             

            After the Problems MW2 had, I'm always gald to hear at theres a counter to anything new that could be useful. I like having new toys to play with COD but I don't want one to much better than the rest of them.

            • Re: Millimeter Scanner
              KTPhoenix

              This is why I say both Treyarch and IW always do things that are counter productive. Instead of thinking of a way to at least balance it out, they make it so you are back to square 1. If that is the case, then why leave the scanner in? Just take it out and that will avoid all this bullsh*t.

               

              They do this EVERY YEAR and it is so damn annoying. When I say "they" I mean both Treyarch AND IW.

              • Re: Millimeter Scanner
                grif77775

                well said dude.

                For everytime the scanner will be useful there will 100 times were fast mags or quick draw would be better.

                the simple fact is, it is difficult is find balance when you create an item like the scanner. It's the potential to be game breaking so giving it downfall such as increased recoil or muzzle flash may not be enough. The only way to be sure that it is balanced is by giving it a counter and making it useless.

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner
    Film_Not_Rated

    In reality, I don't think it will be used by the majority of the players, and more on the minority.

     

    When the game comes out, sure a few people will be using it but after a while I see people going back to a reflex, or Finder(W/e that tunnel vision sight is called.) instead of the MMS.

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner
    anoreo

    Just out of curiosity, what's the point in using RDS or Reflex/Holographic when you could just use the MM scanner attachment?

    • Re: Millimeter Scanner
      Film_Not_Rated

      IMO it's a better sight, I mean the "Pro" players prefered it when they played at Gamescon.

       

      I think it takes 2 seconds anyway per scan anyway.

       

      It has pros, and cons, and it will have more cons in the end.

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner
    coolwhhhip

    Do we even know that it can be countered. Seems every description of cold blooded i have read said resistance to targeting systems. That to me means that the red squares wont show in player controlled killstreaks and the targeting sight.

    • Re: Millimeter Scanner
      vims1990

      coolwhhhip wrote:

       

      Do we even know that it can be countered. Seems every description of cold blooded i have read said resistance to targeting systems. That to me means that the red squares wont show in player controlled killstreaks and the targeting sight.

       

      This is what confuses me.

       

      According to the info released at Gamescom about Cold Blooded, there was NO mention of the MMS being countered by Cold Blooded, just the Dual Band (Thermal Scope), Target Finder, Sensor Grenades & player controlled aircraft.

       

      Also, if you want to know the con of the MMS. It apparently reduces weapon accuracy. Not much of a bad con if you're decent at controlling the recoil at long range.

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner

    The bigger question is that who would use the RDS when they got the MMS? MMS is clearer and thinner, and bigger, why use the RDS?

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner

    What makes you think everyone will be using cold blooded?

     

    I will, but I always use the stealth perks.

     

    There are usually plenty of people who ignore Ghost, cold blooded and such, so I can see this sight still being useful. It's just not an end all be all attachment and it shouldn't be.

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner
    KTPhoenix

    im sorry to everyone. it appears as though i have read "speculation" information. so it may not be countered by CB.

    • Re: Millimeter Scanner
      grif77775

      I've done some research and from what I've read, the MMS have increased recoil. Now unless the recoil is somewhere along the lines of an lmg without grip. I still can't see it being useful

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner

    Not 100% sure the MMS is countered by cold blooded. But if it is, you would still see them with a UAV if they're not moving. I think overall their idea was to make it a difficult decision for someone to camp. In other games it was an easy decision to camp if you wanted to get kills in the most boring way possible and not get killed as much. But in BO2, you would have to use a perk slot for ghost, which doesn't do as much as it used to, then you'd have to use another create a class slot for cold blooded (and if it's in the same tier of perks it'd cost you 2 create a class points actually, but I'm not sure if it's in the same tier) and then another slot for blind eye (possibly another wild card point too) so if those perks are all in the same tier (which I have no idea if they really are) it could cost you half of your create a class points just to be invisible to stuff. So the cost of camping is a lot more than it used to be, so theoretically less people would be willing to spend that many points just to be able to camp semi effectively. Besides the orbital VSat shows everyone no matter what. I wouldn't be too worried about it, and I don't think the MMS attachment is going to be used as much as people think. Like someone else said, there's plenty more useful attachments people would rather use, even the pro players at gamescon kind of went away from it after a little while, they used it a lot at first, but most of them eventually switched to either the target finder or the laser sight. Just my 2 cents.

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner
    T-boss

    add it to 1 of CB counters.

     

    considering MMS is a very large square sight it will need a drawback, such as slow aimtime, or a slight lag before the dot appears in the middle, give it the possiblity of getting glare.

     

    give red dot normal aimtime, dot immediatly appearing, MMS like sights, and no drawback.

     

    the above MMS scanner nerfs will make it much harder to use at medium and up range when you see someone around a corner, decreasing accressy, and getting you killed sometimes. to balance its other uses.

    • Re: Millimeter Scanner

      That'll make it too UP, and make it useless. maybe slower aimtime is in question, but make it so CB only is a very thin outline on the MMS.

      • Re: Millimeter Scanner
        T-boss

        it makes it still usefull for making a shot ac close and mid range, but you will have a harder time aiming quickly at someone a decent distance from you, until the dot reappears after a sec or 2. would give red dot some advantiges at long range and millimeter at short.

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner

    don't see much of a difference between the millimeter scanner and the heartbeat sensor. just aids campers even more rather then help eliminate them. imagine now seeing the exact position of the enemy before they enter the doorway. campers will be even more ready for them. maybe a requirement to move like ghost would help.

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner
    vims1990

    Spoke to the lead multiplayer programmer at Treyarch via Twitter.

     

    According to him, Cold Blooded will counter the MMS.

     

    https://twitter.com/AlexConserva/status/240304786795282432

    • Re: Millimeter Scanner
      xblbw

      I'm more interested in this one:

       

      "BO and BOII Tip:  Dogs will not go after you unless they see you or you fire your gun.  You can avoid them by being quiet."

       

      What the....

    • Re: Millimeter Scanner
      KTPhoenix

      ok, then what i said before stands as is. why the hell go through all that trouble if you are basically going to be back to square 1? might as well leave the damn scanner out so we wont have to deal with all that crap.

       

      EDIT: since this is the case, my next question would be, what will counter CB? as far as i know, there isnt anything that does. so if there is not going to be a counter to CB, what is the point of having the scanner? cuz you all know just as well as i do that people WILL create classes that will somehow make them 90% invisible. and i dont feel like having to go around and constantly get UAVs just to kill a simple camper. that is too much work for a simple thing.

      • Re: Millimeter Scanner
        Run_N_Gunning_Camper

        I'll be rocking CB, and Blind Eye. CB doesn't need a counter. I expect the noobs to be rocking the MMS and the Target Finder as a crutch. I do expect them to move away from it after Christmas when they realize that it doesn't help them much.

         

        MMS= Heartbeat Sensor.

         

        I expect the MMS to beep for every scan just like the HBS. There should be a disadvantage to using it.

         

        Target Finder= Marksman 

         

        I don't need Ghost as I win most of my 1vs1 encounters anyway and having them gravitate towards me will make my job easier.

      • Re: Millimeter Scanner
        OhNoShyGuy

        The MMS will be effective against people who are NOT using Cold Blooded.  No, everybody is not going to use Cold Blooded. Smart players who don't want to show up in one of the noobiest attachments in CoD history WILL use cold blooded. MS=CHEAP, in-game wallhack.  Bacisally I'm saying I'm GLAD the POS attachment is easily countered.

    • Re: Millimeter Scanner
      mdub

      vims1990 wrote:

       

      Spoke to the lead multiplayer programmer at Treyarch via Twitter.

       

      According to him, Cold Blooded will counter the MMS.

       

      https://twitter.com/AlexConserva/status/240304786795282432

      Thank you vims!!! I was starting to think that this would be the crutch that every scrub would cling to.

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner
    Fireman0025

    I think it has just become rediculous that we now have a constant circle of ghost and counter. it didnt used to be like this because way back when you had better perks to compete with ghost (or camoflauge as it was then). now it has become one of the last strong perks left which makes more people began to use it. this made for less red dots to chase after, which ment if you didnt use ghost you had to be prepared to die alot. then with everybody using it it became "O.P" or rather obnoxious. And ever sense we have had a war on ghost and cold blood.

     

    My thing is we have gotten rid of those "power perks" like juggernaut and stopping power, and now even sllight of hand and steady aim. so why do we not just get rid of ghost altogeter? Whats that? leaves you open to UAVs you say? than get rid of them too. you show up on the radar when you shoot, and thats that.

     

    The other solution would be to come up with some perks that rivaled ghost (which i thought MW3 had started down the right path)

     

    Just seems to me we keep making more and more complex ways to solve a simple problem.

    • Re: Millimeter Scanner
      DrKuhn

      The obvious solution, in a normal duty, would've been to bring back juggernaut and stopping power. However, this duty allows you take 2 perks in 1 tier if desired and, obviously, that'd be insanely hard to balance against if someone had both.

       

      It's hard to say what could stop the ghost vs. uav war other then just take them both out. Seriously. Uav is strong because it relays full battlefield awareness and, thus, information. It's a vital tool but when your enemies get one, you HAVE to do something about it because not knowing where you enemy is while they know where you are gives them the tactical advantage in all scenarios.

       

      Idk why Uav is so staple to the duty franchise. If you got rid of it you'd be able to toss out ghost and just be done with the endless stealth arguments

      • Re: Millimeter Scanner
        KTPhoenix

        guys, you are missing the point i am making. this is not about ghost and UAV (that is for a different thread), this is about CB and the MM. the only reason i mentioned the UAV was because that is apparently the only way to get around the CB countering MM thing.

         

        please dont turn this into another ghost v UAV thread.

        • Re: Millimeter Scanner
          DrKuhn

          I don't see what you're getting at then. Cold blooded is the only thing in the game that counters millimeter scanner, end of story. Was there something else you were looking for?

          • Re: Millimeter Scanner
            KTPhoenix

            what i am saying (if you read my previous posts) is, why put an attachment in that counters camping, if all they are going to do is allow a perk to easily counter it without having something to counter that particular counter? they know camping is a problem in this game, yet they give a counter to the very thing that would allow us to play against that.

             

            so why bother having the MMS in the first place? all that would happen is that people would throw CB on and we would be back to square one with camping being a problem again unless we get a UAV. and i mentioned the UAV because i dont feel like having to constantly get UAVs just to play against people who decide to sit in the corner when there is an attachment they put in which they made useless when the opponent uses a certain perk. it seems like you have to go through all this trouble to accomplish something so simple.

            • Re: Millimeter Scanner
              Run_N_Gunning_Camper

              Because it will be overpowered if there will be no counter to it. There should always be a balance between run and gunners and campers. You cannot make a game that heavily favors one playstyle over the rest. Campers will always camp no matter what and the devs knows this. It is the unskilled run and gunners that runs around like a headless chicken that needs help.

               

              The headless chickens are the inexperienced players and they're way more common than campers. The devs gave them the MMS so they will stand a chance against other noobs who will be noob enough not to run Cold Blooded.

               

              The MMS is just another crutch that the devs made and it's like an improved version of the Heartbeat Sensor. It's a noob attachment and people will realize that one day. There will come a day when people will call you a noob for using the MMS.

              • Re: Millimeter Scanner
                KTPhoenix

                i guess what i am trying to ask in this case is, why make it this easy to counter? and we dont even know when we will unlock either of these things. if we unlock CB before the MMS then the scanner will be useless. if we unlock both around the same time as each other, again, the scanner will be useless. the only way i see the scanner as being CLOSE to useful, is if it is one of the first attachments we unlock for our weapon and CB being one of the last perks in the teir unlocked. otherwise, i see no point in having an attachment for a weapon if it is so easily countered.

                • Re: Millimeter Scanner
                  Run_N_Gunning_Camper

                  That's the devs' point. They don't want to make the MMS overpowered and I expect them to be unlocked close to each other or at the same time. It is useless for and against experienced players but there will be enough noobs to try it with an equal amount of noobs not running Cold Blooded. It will be perfect for each other.

                   

                  One will be foolish/noob not to run Cold Blooded considering the amount of crutch attachments the devs introduced in this game.

                • Re: Millimeter Scanner
                  vims1990

                  KTPhoenix wrote:

                   

                  i guess what i am trying to ask in this case is, why make it this easy to counter? and we dont even know when we will unlock either of these things. if we unlock CB before the MMS then the scanner will be useless. if we unlock both around the same time as each other, again, the scanner will be useless. the only way i see the scanner as being CLOSE to useful, is if it is one of the first attachments we unlock for our weapon and CB being one of the last perks in the teir unlocked. otherwise, i see no point in having an attachment for a weapon if it is so easily countered.

                   

                  When you think about it, the MMS is like the HBS in MW2/MW3. I'm predicting it's going to be the attachment that is going to be frowned by the community like the HBS. So I'm kind of glad there is a counter.

                   

                  Why countable? Is there a sight attachment that has no counter?

            • Re: Millimeter Scanner
              DrKuhn

              Camping isn't the issue; bad kids that don't want to improve their player skills are the problem yet the devs design the duty games around said bad kids. Not everything can keep countering the other out. In the end, something wins out and that's what becomes the mandatory perk/gun/attachment that you see in every duty. This duty has only one mandatory perk that i see and it's cold blooded

  • Re: Millimeter Scanner
    RoeParcRanger

    Unless new info came out that i'm not aware of CB only works if you're moving, which the MMS can't pick up anyway, so it kinda doesn't even counter the MMS.