46 Replies Latest reply: Jan 7, 2013 11:13 PM by scotland-rules RSS

Map Design = AWFUL

scotland-rules

Sorry guys, I tend to come on here to complain about things I find have really let the game down, so much I can't play it anymore. Map Design....

 

MW2 and some in Black Ops 1 had big maps, Afghan, Derail, Estate, Wasteland, Karchi...the list goes on and even in BO1 you have some good big maps. However really Black Ops 1, MW3 and Black Ops 2 all the maps have been SO small and they get smaller and smaller and smaller and then the pace is always 1 ******* pace and that is FAST runing  gunning. Sure you can Camp and Snipe but its not the same. Having bigger maps meant the YOU played the game the way YOU, the buyer WANTED. Now in BO2, if you get a big map like Drone or Turbine, you have so much crap in the way...it is a close quarter map just bigger and you like one line of sight. SMGs dominate 85% of the time and the most used sniper is like an Assault Rifle.

 

I just want bigger maps and people said in MW3 that when the DLC came out and they introduced big maps that no one played them...that was because majority of the time you had so much **** in the way...it was CCQ or it had too much zig zags and all that jazz the no one could do anything interesting.

 

The developers in my opinion ruined the recent CoDs e.g. MW3, BO2 when they listened to the cries of people who said camping was an issue (I am not turning this into a camping debate, but its kinda what's lead us to here) and now unless people are getting kills ever 5 seconds they aren't happy. The spawns are ****** because of it and overall this game is a huge let down because of map design.

 

I hope the next CoD goes back to the roots of MW2 and gives us big maps with open space and good sight lines. I want a game with more big maps and less small maps like MW2 had, because that game was the best CoD of more recent times ( I still think WAW was the best CoD to this day). We need big maps, but its too late, DLC even if they brought out 4 big maps like the days of MW2 it wouldn't be enough to save the game.

 

Thanks for reading and I would like to hear your views.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    Destro788

    100% agree with your post.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    BanHaMMer

    100% agree, they are a total clusterphuc! This leads to the spawning issue's no matter how much they tweak the spawn logic. There to small to accept logical spawns and keep up with player tracking etc!!

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    cynicaldriver

    I agree and disagree, lol. I think the solution would be to have two separate playlists. Mix & Large Map.

     

    Mix: Every map is in the rotation, with the larger maps having a slightly more infrequent rate of appearance.

     

    Large Map: Only the big maps. Obviously, they would have to make 4 more, and put Carrier into that rotation. Carrier IS a large map, with long open sightlines, and is very sniper friendly.

     

    This way you could have the small maps for the mid-range fance (like myself) and large maps for the mid-long range fans (Snipers.) I know that I will get a bunch of peopl talking about things like fragmentation and all that, but honestly, the community is already fragmented. Splitting up the long range people from the short-range people solves almost all of the "OMG this gun is OP" stuff." Usually you see snipers saying SMGs and Shotguns are OP, while SMG/Shotgunners claim the sniper rifles are OP (or that Quick-Scoping needs to be nerfed.) It's a ridiculous debate that can be solved with my solution.

     

    I like mid range battles because they allow control, but still give a relatively fast pace. That said, I also would like to see large maps for when I decide I actually want to snipe (rarely, because I suck at it.) Short-range players will stick to "Mix," and Long range playerswill mostly stick to "Large Map." Players like myself, who prefer mid-range conflict, will be able to join either one and perform with resonable comfort.

     

    Also, a large map does not have to be so open that you can see from one side to the other! That stuff takes no skill, and even I can get a load of kills with a sniper rifle if I can see the whole map.

     

    Overall, I agree, there is too much focus on the short-game in BO2.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    rymflaherty

    Personally I'm indifferent on the topic - I guess my preference would be to have a balance, big, small, medium.....I'd like to have variety. 

     

    What I did want to say though is that I see a lot of people on here wanting to have bigger maps.....But in defense of Treyarch (for once) from my experience that opinion is the minority.

    There are a couple bigger maps and when they come up they are never picked in the lobbies I'm in.  Look how many votes something like Hijacked gets, or Nuketwon in the moshpit.  People go crazy for that, but when Yemen (or whatever it's called) comes up just watch all the people that leave the lobby if it's going to be played.

     

    Now maybe that's due to design?  That they need better designed bigger maps.......But the lobbies I'm in seem to prefer the smaller fast paced maps.

    • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
      cynicaldriver

      Yep. That's why I suggest separate playlists. I would jump between both for the variety, but when I am in a short-range mood, I NEVER vote for Turbine. I hate it, even when I am in a mid-range mood. The only time Carrier gets any love from me is when I actually bother to want to snipe. It has enough cover to be good for mid-range, but the "Openness" is far too open for any real short-game, unless you stick to one of two corners!

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    Spittnacid

    i see what ur saying but i prefer smaller maps based on amount of players. honestly i think ppl wanting smaller maps lke the ship are more run n gun players yet i go for the heavy gunning wit betties and shock with scav. this isnt 24v24 so get used it , die alot, or dont play.  also there are maps i hate cos they aretoo broad, like carrior.honestly i think this game is 100x better than the first. i say if you dont dont like something than do your own thing. way i see it, i can get 30/8 to 5/10. depends who i play with. i finally broke 1.1 kd and to me that is awsome.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    GolfHacker27

    Agree entirely with the OP. This is just anotherr run n' gun mapset from the MW3 mold.

    The larger maps with obstacles mean that you have to run half way back across the map when you re-spawn just to find some action.

    Worse : they are all rat runs with hard corners (you know it's a corner : there is a crate/barrel/pallet of cement bags to camp behind or set up a line of fire on :-(

     

    Where are the beautiful contoured, multi-type maps like Array from BO1?

     

    Instead, I just see the same few tiny tedious maps (Raid, Yemen, Hijacked) cycling around and around and around . . . 

    In 25 hours playing, there are a couple of larger maps that I have only seen 4 or 5 times. Because they are screwed up.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL

    large maps are good for 2 things, sniping and the game modes that feature more players. i have noticed this year that snipers r a lot easier to get to, because the maps r small with lots of cover, and every map theres only maybe 1 or 2 places u can effectively snipe from

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    scotland-rules

    I think most of the community would agree that MW2 and maybe black ops at a push...had better map diversity. I would still say MW2 was better because it did have long range maps and short range maps. For example, Afghan.....then you had scrap yard. Two very different maps but it "scratched" the itch for both long range and short range.

     

    Most people, now-a-days only like CCQ and find that if you aren't killing the enemy within the first 5 seconds...its crap....well its not. It gives diversity. Something that has been lacking since MW2/Black Ops1.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL

    The multiplayer itself is awful. ZOMBIES is where its at!

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    HaiValPal

    What I don't like about these maps is that they all seem to have very lazy flank routes. Infact, they hardly feel like flank routes.

     

    Meltdown, Raid and Plaza all have this side step route which I believe is a poor excuse for a flank. Other maps like Overflow I believe there is no real flank route. The dark alleyway in Overflow could have been a flank route if there wasn't headglitch spots perfectly alligned so the enemy could shoot you down the alleyway. And the other side of Overflow is filled with even more headglitch spots, it's amazing how hectic it is to manuveur in that map. I just miss the Black Ops 1 maps. That was the ONLY CoD where I actually enjoyed all maps. (Yes, even you Villa.)

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    IndyOldGuy

    where they really failed was in running speed as it relates to map size . the characters simply move too  fast for these size maps imho

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL

    I swear every single new COD the maps get smaller and along with the small maps come's bad spawning cause when the map is so small it takes like 15 seconds to run around the whole map and spawn kill everybody. with small maps everyone is running around with light weigth running to camp the other teams spawn cause they know they can get a easy killstreak cause there are only two team spawns on some maps like hijacked.

     

    Another tactic is just plain simple camping if the whole team camps its a solid stradagey cause the maps are so small they know which way you will always be coming from. WHEN YOU MAKE SMALL MAPS YOUR JUST ASKING EVERYONE TO CAMP AND SPAWN KILL they make it to easy for campers. The level disigner's over at treyarch are getting lazy they don't even try anymore to make good maps. MW3 was no better if you ever pause the game while on interchange and look at the map the whole map is 3 lines going down and 4 line across so basically interchange is a giant tic tac toe board, hard hat is just a big circle with a middle part, mission is two square blocks for spawns and 4 lines with different sizes to connect the spawns and baakara (great name btw) is a giant box with a bunch of builings and walls placed randomly with a downe helicopter in the worst spot possible with very little cover.

     

    All DLC sucks now too like all the stupid face off maps from mw3. WHY NOT JUST MAKE MORE MULTIPLAYER MAPS? people camp even more on the face off maps why you ask? CAUSE WHEN YOU MAKE SMALL MAPS YOUR JUST ASKING PEOPLE TO CAMP. if the maps were bigger people would be to busy looking for eachother to camp cause they cant just sit in the one spot where everyone spawns at or has to pass by because there would be multiple spawns and people could just go around and kill the camper from behind or skip the camper and dont even bother with him

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    TRU11

    its what you get when you trade in realism for arcade action packed BS.

     

    i loved the first MW and WAW but since MW2 i feel this serie is going into the wrong direction.

     

    actually since we got the option to pick score or kill streaks COD has been going downhill.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    JC480

    Agree. The maps in BO2 are way too small (and badly designed) Spawn killing is the worst i have ever seen in any COD..  Especially on Hijacked..  try playing that on FFA... awful.

     

    The game needs some big maps.. at least 2 really giant ones (for people who like sniping etc..) 

     

    In fact, they need a balance of small, medium and large maps so that everyone will be happy.

     

    Every map they make seems to get SMALLER!!

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    ghamorra

    Little do people know, map design is a key in several issues outside of spawn killing. Bigger maps would probably cut down on lag, the less intense a game is the easier it is on the host (my personal theory).

     

    It also changes up playstyles so you're not always having to play in 6th gear. I personally am not a fan of the Rushing style, I like methodic play.

     

    This leads me to my third point. Good players will be able to rise up, n00bs will be shown. This game takes no skill, it's all about the fastest firing gun and who happens to get the first shot off. Slowly people are working some small tactical advantages in but how can you possibly say Black Ops II is a skillful game when the largest map is probably Express

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    h1r0l3r

    I only started playing COD with MW3 so I'm not too familiar with older maps. But, from MW3 to BO2, the maps are a lot smaller I think. I think the biggest map is probably Turbine and all the rest are either small/medium in sized by comparison. And as these maps are relatively small, all the crap they throw in the maps just makes things worse, case in point, Aftermath. I HATE playing aftermath/turbine/yemen since they're medium-ish sized maps but with all the buildings/passage ways/cars/etc, it's just a giant clusterphuck. You got people camping everywhere, afraid to move cuz if they do they'll get shot and it'll hurt their K/D and so on. Most of the BO2 maps are so small that you can put a guardian down anywhere and it'll get you quite a few kills.

     

    In MW3, I liked Outpost even though lots of people hated it. It was a nice open map, for the most part with some decent sight lines as well as some close quarter areas as well. Seems like most of the BO2 maps are SMG/shotgun maps.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    Yunck

    I think the current maps are okay.  As for sniping points sometimes you have to be creative. I snipe from non- traditional sniping places alot.

     

    There are maps i cant stand though. Cargo is one and Carrier is another. Both teams blend into everything. Target finders seem to be the best equipment choice in those areas and im not a big fan of target finders.

     

    With that said i would like to see some more open maps available to us. Maybe after this dlc treyarch will make more map packs available down the road with some of the ideas on this thread in mind.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    lifeson90

    well we havent got the dlc maps yet but have to agree slightly, you can get used to blops2 maps over time but generally speaking the selection cant compare with mw2 and blops1, only yemen stands out as a very well designed classic map but the rest got nothing on rundown, invasion, karachi, underpass, strike, crash etc etc those older maps are works of art compared to blops2 and if you look at blops2 you'll find too much symettrical laziness as well, meaning you could draw a line down the middle of a map and one half will be the same as the other...

     

    for me map design is almost everything in a great cod and only a couple of blops2 maps like yemen are truly great

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL

    The devs make small-cluttred maps on purpose in order to encourage players to buy the DLC map packs, it's too obvious. They did it in MW3 and now they're doing it in BO2 , they're trying to squeeze every nickle and dime from you as they possibly can.  How does Treyarch go from creating great maps like Firing Range , Summit , and WMD  to Yemen , Turbine, and Aftermath. It make zero sense.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    Gerbera

    Might as well just make a "map" that is nothing more than a tiny box that JUST fits in all 12 players and they spawn all facing eachother. Now all you gotta do is hold the trigger until you die, then keep that up until a team wins.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    SnipinDB

    The map design is bad. Size is ok all-round. More maps like firing range are needed. Relatively small / mid big but open and diverse as well.

     

    Too big is boring, but ok occasionally. Too clustered is stupid.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    CallOfDutyFan88

    all i gotta say is drone, aftermath, carrier, turbine wtf treyarch. u wanted this to be fast paced but u made maps that make it impossible to find people before the time limit. the community hates campers but u made maps that make it super easy to hide anyway.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL

    100% agreed.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    scotland-rules

    Well I agree with some points made by you guys. I really do, However for people like me, I won't play a game like black ops 2 now. I'll find another multiplayer, like right now I am playing AC3.

     

    I hope the next CoD goes back to MW2 style maps with more big maps rather than smaller maps because small = cluster=camping=too fast paced.

     

    Sure camping on big maps isn't great. However running 15 seconds to find people shouldn't be critzied so much that we have MW3 and Black Ops with such terrible map design.

     

    Running 15-20 seconds makes the game fun because you need to stay on your toes. You can't lower your guard and it allows something that we haven't had since Black ops 1 and MW2

     

    GETTING TO PLAY THE GAME HOW YOU FEEL YOU WANT TO PLAY IT, MAKING YOU PLAY THE GAME HOW YOU WANTED REGARDLESS OF WHAT OTHERS THINK

     

    My motto is, you paid the money, we get to play how we want. The developers shouldn't have said "We want this a fast paced game"

     

    They should have said "We want to make a game where everyone gets to play the way they want"

     

    Which overall means, bigger maps, because you can have diversity.

     

    p.s I know I replied to my own OP, however it was the best way I could reply feed back and update my own opinion.

    • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
      Fubar360

      You need to leave your bird nest camping spot every once in a while, and you will find that the maps are not that small at all. Other than hijacked (the most played map on this game) all other maps are medium to large by COD standards. Remember this is not Battlefield and thank god. These maps just are pack with buildings, curved roads, boxes, cars, cranes on a aircraft carrier (Make No Sense) etc. Point being is that they have way to much sh_t on these maps, including head glitching spot (2 at every corner) that it cuts down long lines of sites big time. These maps (size wise) is on the scale of COD4 and MW2. If you removed all the buildings and crap in the way in Aftermath, Drone and Meltdown, you would a map slightly smaller than Wasteland.

      • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
        scotland-rules

        Well that is an issue, you named the biggest maps in BO2 and said they were cluttered. Every map that is even a moderate size is cluttered and is CCQ. You say I'm camping? I can't really do that now can I?

         

        Look at MW2

        Estate,

        Wasteland

        Quarry

        De-rail

        Sub Base(It was small but with good sight lines so it often felt like a larger map)

        Crash

        Afghan

        Karchi

        Rundown

        Underpass

        Bailout

        Overgrown

        Carnival

        Fule

        Strike

         

        That is just from MW2

        Want Black Ops 1?

        Want WAW?

         

        We've only been subjected too, small maps since MW3 AND BO2.

         

        Even if they include big maps like the days of BO1 and MW2 its still too late.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    rakangamer

    I agree but you can't blame the developers. Blame our messed up community instead. the developers did what we asked for. MOST people asked treyarch to get rid of camping. changing the maps was really the most effectice way. The only real thing we can do now is hope that the DLC has big maps. If you really think the maps are game breaking, then get battlefiled.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL

    I was massivly dissapointed when i started playing this call of duty. i also totally agree that the maps are badly designed, i hate the fact that you are forced into such a rushed style of play. now personally its not a huge issue as i am capable of adjusting to this game, but it has taken the fun away for me. i consider myself a tactical player, and to be honest there is no tactics needed in this game. like many have said it comes down to who ever sprays first and thats it. Its truly dissapointing for players such as my self as its impossible to play the way you want too.

     

    Treyarch seriously need to go back to the drawing board because this call of duty is a huge fail!

     

    I wish i could enjoy this game but unfortunatly, due to the game deciding how i should play rather than me im not

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    redx165

    The game is becoming more slow pace due to these campers so in order to keep the game flow alive they need to make the maps smaller. Blame the campers. Most of them are on these forums.

     

    ~THE NOOB KILLER

    • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
      Gerbera

      Same with the spawns, I'm sure.

       

      Many times, after getting killed by a camper, especially on smaller maps like Hijacked or Slums, I'd spawn behind them and kill them without them even noticing my approach at all.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    Jaggajatt187

    The maps are horrible, all the fighting take place in one spot. Only way to use an AR is to headglitch which has basically taken out 3 weapon classes and left people with smg's and shotguns. Maybe the DLC maps will be larger but I'm not getting DLC until the connection is fixed.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    Ezcru

    Lol @ campers saying "might as well make the maps an empty room 20 by 20 feet"

     

    You guys are *******. 80% of the rage quitters in this game are CAMPERS. They die in their room, and they can't make it back into another one, and they quit the game. Garbage.

  • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
    CallOfDutyFan88

    too fast paced isnt really a bigger problem than games ending by time limit because nobody could find each other the whole game. nobody wants to play on a map that it takes 2-5 minutes to find some1 unless they really like battlefield. cod is supposed to be a fast paced blood pumping shooter and thats why campers are really looked down on by this community. some maps are too big and hijacked/nuketown is a tad too small. i think this game needs to find a healthy medium. maps like raid, slums and plaza are almost perfect (nothing is perfect) because everybody from a shotgun user to a sniper user can easily do well on those maps. maps like turbine, carrier, aftermath and drone favor the long range game way too much and those maps would play better if they were shrunk down considerably. less games would end by time limit on those maps, very rarely do i win a kill confirmed game on turbine by score limit and it really shouldnt be that way.

    • Re: Map Design = AWFUL
      scotland-rules

      I disagree. In MW2, I often dndealt with campers and sometimes had to run 20 seconds or so to find a bad guy. You might think this takes too long. However I assure you that it means people get to play the way they want too. I used to run around with Sniper Rifles and rarely had to change to my secondary because you could keep the enemy at arms length. It was really fun.

       

      You got to play the way you liked.

       

      @Jaggajatt187

       

      I'd have to disagree with what you've said. I often find myself wondering. Is it really the campers fault? Is it really camping that's the issue? I often find myself saying NO

       

      They play the game the wa y they want and I respect that. Hell I enjoy a bit of camping. Its funny to hear the opposing team rage when you snipe them from a building and they keep coming back trying to kill you

       

      I know, I am sounds like a broken record player. However CoD series has went really down hill since BO1, it was good then we had MW3 and Black Ops 2 which are just boring and cluster ****. If I feel we need a mix of BO1 non nube tube style and MW2 big maps and all/most guns = over powered because then you can't complain about OP guns. Plus you had a good range of secondary weapons. I liked that