18 Replies Latest reply: Feb 7, 2013 6:19 AM by TinyLittleTimmy RSS

Difference in Lag Compensation

iKon

So as we all know as soon as this game released the lag compensation seemed horrific. As the updates and patches have come it has seemed to get a little better, but I personally did three specific things that seemed to make it a million times better. The game has been a lot more enjoyable so I made an instructional video for those that may not be as tech savy so that everybody can experience the game at its fullest potentional.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSA8R9ApZsM

  • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
    Suicidal_Hitman

    nothing new here

  • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
    Razed88

    Great guide but I did all this on day one and there are still issues meaning 8 out of 10 games I feel I'm being unfairly disadvantaged. I think most who know what lag comp is and what happens as a result have performed these steps.

     

    Activision went through the trouble of trying to fob everyone off with a not very user friendly text version of what your video outlines after the first week or so of lag problems.

     

    What I've found is:

     

    A - Our friends in America have a much better time of it than us in the UK.

     

    B - I'll have one good round then the next round of the same game I'll be forced to switch my weapon to an AR or LMG because SMG will give hit markers for a whole clip.

     

    C - I'll get annoyed and start to play local MP against bots and find that SMG kills at fairly long range with 4 or 5 hits and AR does the same but with 2 or 3 hits. These kills are what other players get on me during online MP while I still require the best part of a whole clip and cannot kill at range.

     

    D - Regardless of how good my online game 'feels', weapons never perform as they do during local MP against bots. Obviously there will always be a ping delay online but I've never played a game before where the online performance makes weapons so bad compared to the LAN equivalent.

     

    It doesn't help that because many people have the same issues people tend to rage quit. A host migration messes me up every time and will result in things becoming much worse.

    • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
      Nubdub

      I live in America and I get 1 game in 10 that is acceptable. It's a global issue with the game.

      • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation

        same

      • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
        gallp13

        The Whole Lag Issue - Some Random Thoughts

         

        TL:DR at the end

         

        Disclaimer: This is not particularly in reply to you Nub but just a few thoughts or perhaps misconceptions I have on this matter. More than happy for folks to clean up any misconceptions as they see fit. Also acknowledge some folks are having a very difficult time with lag. This is not meant as a denial of these experiences.

         

        Trouble with the whole lag issue is only an active few (perhaps less than 200 globally it seems afters years reading and contributing to the discussion) have the tenacity to lobby, I mean really lobby, for change. Some of these die hards adopt a vitriolic stance and so weaken their case. Few give credence to the views of the petulant so to speak. Those remaining are unlikely be enough to effect change given the huge player population that simply buys the game, has a bit of a dabble and move to the next game. More than happy for a 3arc person to jump on and correct this view. But my sense its its a realistic view and I'm neither condoning nor criticising.

         

        Me, I understand that console based FPSs as a genre have NO magic bullet solution to deal with continuously variable player connection quality over the Internet. This network environment is just too random. If I want a great FPS experience I play LAN its a controlled closed environment.

         

        I have lagged in all CoDs (even the hallowed CoD 4), all Halos, all Borderlands, all GoW etc and on all systems (yep own em all) played over the Internet. Guarenteed,  I will have a great game today on BO2 stick in Halo 4 and lag like a biotch and vis versa. "Interwebz is random" what can I say.

         

        In short its niave to expect LAN quality FPS play over the Internet. The fact I get the odd game of  BO2, or any FPS for that matter, that approaches LAN play quality is a credit to the DEVS. It quite amazes me.

         

        Thus, the best can do is make sure my end is good and provide as much constructive feedback to the DEVs via Support and Twitter (forums are NOT an effective channel) as possible. I do this in the hope they will write code that tries to match me with like quality connections and progressively block crappy hosts (you know, the ones that look good in the pre game lobby but turn to crap mid game cos they jitter n drop due to any one of a thousand unpredictable events).

         

        As stated, BO2 (and all FPS) lag for me every game, but most games are good enough and I manage residual lag with play tactics mostly based around controlling my gun fights. This has worked for me since I started playing console based FPS.

         

        If lag is worse than my normal game, I play defensively, turm aim assist on and use it to help me aim at his hit box. I want hit markers and a kill after all . This took a full year  to get right across MW2 and BO and has served me well since (To Nub: yes mate old gallp can perceive less then 600ms he ain't that old yet )

         

        My view,  if any game is unplayable I turn it off and return it and get a refund if possible. However, it is noteworthy it recall, Jan is ALWAYS a crappy laggy month for Nov release FPS. This is due to the influx of crappy connection Xmas noobs who get host. Fortunately, most FPS have host block features these days and it only takes a about month for the code to winnow the wheat from the chaffe and its back to normal by Feb. BO2 and Halo 4 are both lagging at the moment due to this effect. So Jan is my non FPS month that's why I'm playing Skyrim and getting it of my pile off shame.

         

        In any event if any FPS s laggy to the point of unplayability I put it on the shelf, for good. I came very close with MW3....but that's a whole different story.

         

        TL:DR - want no lag play LAN.

         

        cheers

        gallp

        • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
          KoRny1

          That whole reply is a mix of being false, unagreeable, and stuipd.

          • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
            gallp13

            Far enough...I have politely invited all to tidy my misconceptions. .......feel most welcome to help me better understand issues....I am always happy to learn.

             

            PS

             

            Some facts  from my end on play experience these may help you put my post in perspective. (And yes it's a bit pathetic but I do measure so I can accurately lodge service requests)

             

            - 10/10 of my games lag its just about the direction and the degree.

             

            Nov-24 Dec

            - 2/10 are quite low lag and "good"

            - 5/10 have lag to an extent that means I can't win a CQB - so its defensive play for me

            - 3/10 have extreme lag, phase in out, game freezes that sought or thing - its go for the hit box only time or switch off

             

            25 Dec-4 Jan (not playing as much due to Xmas influx effect)

            - 0/10 good

            - 6/10 average - so defensive play

            - 4/10 unplayable - switch off

             

            4 Jan-current (still not playing much)

            - 1/10 good

            - 5/10 managable

            - 4/10 unplayable

             

            As you can see I am not without issues. But I battle through.....tweet, lodge data with Support. I dont vent  on the forums anymore as it doesnt help me in any way. I understand some folks need to vent on the forums to feel better, all good by me its called free speech and I'm all for it. I vent by going for a surf keeps me fit and feeling great.

             

            I'll finish by adding that even at these performance levels I enjoy the game. If they were lower as was the case for me with MW2/3 its was awful. I respect and feel for those experiencing 1/10 good games now.

            • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
              KoRny1

              I highly doubt those affected by lag are as few as you claim. Those on the forums are basically representetives for a larger population. A small minority of players who experience the horrid lag would ever even think to come on the forums and complain about it.

               

              It's understandable that bullet registration / lag isn't possible to make "perfect", but it's NOT understandable that it gets worse with every new CoD they release. I've played other FPS over the past couple years and none of them display this kind of lag. In previous CoDs (pre MW3) it was common to experience a laggy match maybe 1 in 20 lobbies. This game is 19 in 20. I don't remember BO1 having any "serious" lag issues even on release. There were some things that needed to be tweaked, and they were tweaked, but at no point did I concider it unplayable.

              Why is the fact that it just recently came out even a valid excuse? If the game isn't ready for a november release, then don't release it in november. Why should I buy it and have to put it on the shelf for months until finally the day may or may not come when it gets fixed?  Hyping a game up and then selling it to me knowingly full of glitches for $60 is the works of a Con Artist. I payed $60 for solid online play, I didn't pay $60 for a game I can only play LAN...that's not how it was advertised.

               

              The fact that Treyarch has seen these forums and doesn't have people working around the clock, 7 days a week to fix it just shows that they either A) are immoral, or B) have no sense of pride in their work.

              • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
                gallp13

                First thank you for your reply I offer the following in response......

                KoRny1 wrote:

                 

                Korny

                I highly doubt those affected by lag are as few as you claim.

                 

                Gallp

                Please take the time and courtesy to read my post. I stated clearly that ALL people are effected by lag. The estimate to which you refer is a guess at the number prepared to lobby for change not the number experiencing lag. Lobby in this case means to work consistently using factual well structured evidence that DEVS can use. Statements to the effect it's broke and I'm angry are great for venting but can't be used for improvement. If you add the lobbyists from the forums (not just this one but CI et al), xbl, Facebook, YouTube pros (Woody, TmarTn, Xbox Ahoy et al) and twitter together I don't see more that a couple of 200 lobbyists who are prepared to work constructively. As noted in my post disclaimer please help me get this right if you have further evidence.

                 

                Korny

                Those on the forums are basically representetives for a larger population. A small minority of players who experience the horrid lag would ever even think to come on the forums and complain about it.

                 

                Gallp

                The forum may be a statistically representative microcosm. Equally it may not be so. Without any facts, this is an assumption on your part. Notwithstanding, our points on this matter are in alignment, that is, the silent majority never effect change precisely because of their silence. It's a vocal majority that effect change. As your point implies, we have a vocal minority but a silent majority. Maybe the majority are unhappy, maybe they are happy who knows. In the end, I agree with the implication of your point, the numbers of the vocal appear too low to make a difference. Assuming of course, there is a difference that can be made.

                 

                Korny

                It's understandable that bullet registration / lag isn't possible to make "perfect", but it's NOT understandable that it gets worse with every new CoD they release. I've played other FPS over the past couple years and none of them display this kind of lag. In previous CoDs (pre MW3) it was common to experience a laggy match maybe 1 in 20 lobbies. This game is 19 in 20.  I don't remember BO1 having any "serious" lag issues even on release. There were some things that needed to be tweaked, and they were tweaked, but at no point did I concider it unplayable.

                 

                Gallp

                I too have played FPS for years. MW2 and MW3 were laggy for me while BO and BO2 were/are much better. I was where you are now with MW2/3 and it was awful, but it seems I was in the minority. Of course both our experiences are true and correct for us. So if the engine worked for you in MW2, BO, MW3 and not BO2 but worked for me in BO and BO2 but not MW2 and MW3 and we used the same engine, what's the difference? Environment and participants n'est ce pas? In any event how'd be a DEV?

                 

                Your point on BO2 being good on release and poor now appears to support the hypothesis relating to winnowing. If this is so then Feb may show some improvement. I have a smaller host population in my region to winnow and there already early signs of improvement. Which is encouraging I will add.

                 

                Korny

                Why is the fact that it just recently came out even a valid excuse? If the game is ready for a november release, then don't release it in november. Why should I buy it and have to put it on the shelf for months until finally the day may or may not come when it gets fixed?  Hyping a game up and then selling it to me knowingly full of glitches for $60 is the works of a Con Artist. I payed $60 for solid online play, I didn't pay $60 for a game I can only play LAN...that's not how it was advertised.

                 

                Gallp

                I assume you are directing this comment at the ether as I didn't support or not support Nov release titles. However on reflection it doesn't seem to matter whether the game releases in Nov with 2 small user influxes or post Xmas with one major user influx, the engine still needs to winnow and so there's a "lag to less lag effect" in both cases, albeit with differing peaks and troughs, as best quality hosts are identified. I am assuming, based on the Pork Thread (1 Jan 2011),  that winnowing is still in the CoD engine, of course. I could be entirely wrong and this could be a placebo effect - we are all victims of our perception are we not?

                 

                Korny

                The fact that Treyarch has seen these forums and doesn't have people working around the clock, 7 days a week to fix it just shows that they either A) are immoral, or B) have no sense of pride in their work.

                 

                Gallp

                Vahn, et al, is on record via twitter and a number of interviews that engine performance is monitored around the clock using both electronic means and customer feedback. You may recall his statement to the effect that Hot fixes and patches are made mostly on the math and in part on the emotion. In any case the proof, unfortunately for those having a tough time like I did in MW2/3, that 3arr is working hard or not in in the client satisfaction rating, if only a small number from the vast population complain and the majority are silent and buy the product.....well this the point isn't it. Again are the majority happy or unhappy, time will tell.......

                 

                Thank you for your reply I trust this is useful, in any event I hope you get the changes you desire and I hope it doesn't  reduce the satisfaction of others.

                 

                Cheers

                gallp

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                .

                • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
                  KoRny1

                   

                   

                   

                  Gallp

                  Your point on BO2 being good on release and poor now appears to support the hypothesis relating to winnowing.

                   

                  Korny

                  That's not what I said, I think BO2 was bad from release and hasn't shown the slightest improvment.

                   

                   

                  Gallp

                  Vahn, et al, is on record via twitter and a number of interviews that engine performance is monitored around the clock using both electronic mean and customer feedback. You may recall his statement to the effect that Hot fixes and patches are made mostly on the math and in part on the emotion. In any case the proof, unfortunately for those having a tough time like I did in MW2/3, that 3ard is working hard or not in in the client satisfaction rating, if only a small number from the vast population complaint and the major are silent and buy.......well this the point isn't it.

                   

                  KoRny

                  Vahn asked for video proof of the lag, he has received an abundance of it, yet still Activision releases posts on steps you can take on how to reduce lag on your Xbox, suggesting that the fault for lag is on the player's end. I have followed all these steps and notice not even the slightest difference.

                  The problems with BO2 are the same problems MW3 had, but instead of learning from mistakes, it's now worse than ever. People were upset with MW3, but were forgiving, and now we're hit with this again. Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me.  I don't think I'll be surprised with the sales on the next instalation of CoD. The "silent but still buy" crowd will become the "silent and buy something else" crowd.

                   

                   

                   

                   

                   

                   

                   

                  .

    • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
      T-boss

      SMG's suck at range AR's dont. thats how its supposed to work.

       

      as for whole clips, lag.

  • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
    FAded_DrEamz

    Everyone's router is different and the website you gave has no idea what my router is.. A DG860 arris router.. So unfortunately it did not work for me.. I guess I have to just suck it up with the lag and hit detection. Even though I have 30mb cable speed..

  • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
    djtn

    I don’t think the problem is lag necessarily. Well, it is but let me explain.

     

    People only use the “lag” word as it’s the closest technical term that matches the feeling of the game play. Lag, in its fundamental term- in gaming, refers to people with a slower (poor)  connection lagging in and out, causing their character in the game to blink in and out from dropped packets or packets that doesn’t make it to the host. The problem with COD (since bo1) IS lag but a different kind of lag. It’s a lag in game time. Your visuals are lagging behind what the host sees.

     

    With this type of lag, it doesn’t matter what you do to your connection. It doesn’t matter what load-out you use. It doesn’t matter how close you are to the host. Some player’s visuals and actions are in the real game time and others are lagging behind. The next match, with the same host and the same players could produce different results. Other players could now be in real time with the ones who previously raped now go 3 and 48.

     

    It’s this inconsistency in game play that makes it so frustrating and only adds to the confusion of the term “lag”.

    • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
      gallp13

      Quite right...

       

      Delta between location of hit box and character model.

      • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
        Nubdub

        Exactly. Which falls in the hands of developers not us.

         

        Why can the devs not survey us and find out what regions (state, country, city), internet providers, connection speeds, type of internet....exc. Maybe some of this information would be helpful to narrow down the root cause. Even temporarily disabling theater, facebook, youtube just to see if that may be the issue. To do absolutely nothing and continuing to blame us is getting old. Pure arrogance is what it is. You can still pop in MW2 and see that it is possible even with a very small player base, to have a game that does not artificially put you a half second to a second behind other players.

         

        There is nowhere in the entire world, including from where I live in the central United States to Australia, that I should receive a 700ms disadvantage against another player. My ping to Australia is around 250ms. Most games I play in, every player has 4 bars and I still find myself 500ms behind half the players in the lobby. Something is terribly wrong with this game.

         

        Who in their right mind would purchase DLC for this game knowing that Treyarch blames it's game purchasers for 100% of the issues with sync, matchmaking and latency. They are taking 0 responsibility yet expect customer loyalty.

  • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
    T-boss

    the fix call of duty was for some reason to stupid to do.

     

    copy and past MW2 lagcomp.

     

    MW2 host advantage was .03 seconds.

     

    MW2 lag at 4 bar is 1/4th BO2 lag at 4 bar at 1/20th of a second, and 150ms less.

     

    MW2 2 bar lag(which is also alot rarer than BO2 2bar) was = to BO2 best possible connection.

     

    BO2 has a host advantige.

    • Re: Difference in Lag Compensation
      TinyLittleTimmy

      I was constantly getting 1 red bar but zero lag compensation at 80ms ping 15ms jitter from pingtest and 15 down 2 up from speedtest. After months of work and $100's spent I finally figured out how to get 4 green bars every game, avoid host, and get lag compensation on your side with just 5meg down 1.5up. I'm writing up a very juicy tutorial on my clan forums and will get it done over the weekend. I left the link and password on my clan page. I'm the leader. We are on both Xbox and PS3. Check it out. I have rentals, set them up like my tutorial at each one and the players there are all like "Thank you! Thank you so much! You should sell this!" Here's the name of my clans, we're 150+ members join if you want... ps3:"WoLo" xbox:"2KIL" find the comments on elite then go to our forums link, type the password, and click the fix lag link.