23 Replies Latest reply: May 30, 2013 5:44 PM by iBlueey RSS

Don't make the shotguns useless

Im_not_BukLau

I really hope IW doesn't make the shotguns crap like they did in MW3. I had all of the shotguns gold in MW3 and it was a nightmare. First you had to grind 28 levels of nothing but hitmarkers to finally unlock the damage proficiency and even damage didn't really help the shotguns to perfom well. The problem really lies with a lack of consistency, even at close range I'd have to be guessing whether I'd get a hitmarker or a kill because of the extremely inconsistent performance. Also do what Treyarch did and make the pellet spread tighter when you ADS.

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    kastro187420

    A lot of the shotguns weren't too bad, the problem was the consistency like you said. Sometimes you could 1hko 3 people in a row, other times you'd hit them 2-3x and still be trying to get the kill. If they could make them consistently deal the right damage, they'd be great.

     

    I do want to see them buffed though. Maybe different ammo types, such as Slugs, or Flechette Rounds, and increased range on them so that you don't have to have the gun right up against them. The Shotguns could be so much better with just a little more versatility built into them.

    • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
      Im_not_BukLau

      I really hope a slug shotgun or option to use slugs as an attachments is in Ghosts. The KSG in Black Ops 2 was an extremely fun weapon and if you were on a good connection it was also a very effective weapon.

       

       

      kastro187420 wrote:

       

      Sometimes you could 1hko 3 people in a row, other times you'd hit them 2-3x and still be trying to get the kill. If they could make them consistently deal the right damage, they'd be great.

      ^ this. No matter what range I was at I had to constantly be second guessing myself when using the SPAS, KSG and M1887. The others weren't so bad because you could get a second shot off quickly but when using one of the manual action shotguns the lack of consistency was a huge problem

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    Fireman0025

    agreed. while i felt like the MW3 guns had the right range capabilities they were so dang inconsistant that it didnt matter. If the shotguns in ghosts preform like the ones in BO2 than i will be very pleased.

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    IronmanAlloyz

         Would i be wrong to assume that you guys play in core as opposed to HC??? shotguns are EXTREMELY effective and well balanced in hardcore ....especially when you unlock the range prof.

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    ghamorra

    Gun balancing is best done through map design. Shotgun in Black Ops II were fine statistically. The problem arose in the map layouts. Lots of tight alleys, small cluttered rooms, and openings that barely fit their discriptions of "open" gave them benefits. Look at Carrier, probably the most open map in the game as it had few rooms and walls, but clutter gave Shotgunners the chance to duck and hide around all the random crates and vehicles giving them the chance to enter OHK range. Same goes for Handguns

    • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
      Im_not_BukLau

      I agree with what you are saying but it's no good having balanced maps and shotguns that are statistically balanced if they are getting point blank and CQC hitmarkers. When using the pump and lever action shotguns in MW3 (even with the damage proficiency) it was often a guessing game as to whether you were going to get a kill or a hitmarker. There was no sense of consistency with these guns, every time you picked them up they felt like a completely different gun.

      • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
        ghamorra

        I'm not really sure why this happens. The game has a set-in-stone formula for damage. Anything within X distance and Y number of pellets recieves Z damage. As to why I'm getting hit markers dispite landing nearly all my pellets on a guy is beyond me. It could be lag or it could be poor hit detection, I don't know. But if they carry over the same shotgun philosophy from Black Ops II over to Ghosts I think that would be accurate

        • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
          Im_not_BukLau

          I think Black Ops 2 (apart from the problems with the maps that you mentioned) handled shotguns (in terms of consistency) well. You could get a good feeling of the limitations of each weapon, the ranges were you'd get a hitmarker or OHK and when to ADS or hipfire (I really hope IW do what 3arc did and make ADSing a shotgun tighten the pellet spread).

    • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
      Fireman0025

      while i agree that map design makes a huge diffence, the hard core shotgun user can use a shotgun on any map effectivly if done right. sometime it just rewuires thinking (something alot of people in the game are not good at)

    • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
      zombies4lyfe

      I agree, it definitely is about map design. MW3 had poor map design and it just wasnt worth useing shot guns.

       

       

       

      Blops 2 had it a little better but i still feel they are working on it.

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    Steve2589

    Shotguns were weak in MW3 at the start of the game but they did updates to them which I think made them balanced. The USAS was really strong in my opinion. I'd rather have them as they were in MW3 than ridiculous like they are in BO2

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    Seph009

    Black ops 2 shotguns are what I like to call consistently bad, even the so called best shotgun in the game only has around 10.5 meteres of effective range which is a joke. The maps DO NOT cater to shotguns, they cater to smgs. It's near impossible to cross some of these maps against good teams (raid since there are only 3 places to come from, overflow, carrier, etc) the headglitches also don't help.

     

    Second, I hope the slug doesn't come back. Essentially you're getting the range of a mw3 shotgun with much, much more difficulty of use and horrible close range effectiveness. It's just a bad sniper rifle as I like to say.

     

    Third, the mw3 shotguns had fine spread and min damage, the main issue was that they were a 3 pellet kill at close range instead of two and the spread wasn't even as tight as mw2, this made the pumps pretty damn inconsistent.

     

    Lastly, by the end of MW3s life span the only good shotguns were the Usas and the Striker. The pumps were pretty damn inconsistent most of the time (remembering now, the 1887 had pretty shitty spread but the best min damage, bad combo that lead to extreme inconsistency). The AA12 also had RIDICULOUS  spread and needed almost its full clip for a single kill most of the time. 2/8 pellet kill for pumps and decent spread and range would be perfect, an AA12 should be like its MW2 counterpart (yes it was stupid for camping, but as a primary it would do its job). I really hope the shotguns arent **** a 4th year in a row.

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    RallyOrDie

    MW2 shotguns were the best.

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    mickilla

    Agreed that ADS should tighten the spread. Otherwise, ADS has no reason to be possible on shotguns in the first place.

     

    But as of how the shotguns are expected to behave, we find ourselves in a dilemma. How far away should they be able to score instant kills? And how much further past that do they suddenly stop dealing damage at all? I see the problem is that the margin between the two is so tiny. My honest suggestion is that shotguns should have an extremely short instakill range, but should be able to score kills with just two or three hits over much longer ranges than they do currently. Adjusting this to be appropriate for hardcore may simply mean that shotguns may just have to be programmed with two separate damage curves, one for core and one for hardcore.

     

    Another concern is how to deal with fast-firing shotguns. These are notoriously difficult to balance. Because they have that preposterous spray factor, if they have any lethality whatsoever then they're mindless (granted that many weapons in COD fit that bill, but that's no excuse to tolerate this trend). And if they're set to deal low enough damage that they aren't mindless, then they flat out become pointless. There just isn't a middle ground. I really don't see an easy solution for how to deal with these. Maybe set them to have very poor hip spread, force them to only be effective with sights raised- and if so, use recoil to keep them in check.

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    22LEE

    Take shotguns out the game, never been a fan of the noob shooter. If the shotguns killed after 1 or 2 shots everytime without fail then it would be used by every person on cod. Players need to have the feeling of help when running around instead of thinking they can run around with a shotgun and earn great kill streaks so the shotguns are great in BO2. Leave them be or get rid is my opinion.

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    zombies4lyfe

    I agree 100 % i love shot guns and i hope they are good! I want the guns from mw2 pre patch back! W00000t

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    hess54321

    The shotguns need to be more realistic. All other primary weapons are on par except for shotguns. All of the little newbie CoD cry baby players need to accept that shotguns kill quickly in close-medium ranges - that is just simply what a shotgun is supposed to do.

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    rankismet

    I prefer to ask for, "Make the shotguns balanced."

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    Tobzza

    The problem with this is, if shotguns are buffed then SMG's will be useless. An SMG is a short range machine gun, closer range than Assault Rifles, longer range than shotguns. If shotguns are buffed then it will equal (or even overtake) the effective range of an SMG, leaving the SMG's a weaker alternate to shotguns.

  • Re: Don't make the shotguns useless
    iBlueey

    True, Shotguns should be OP in Close range. But they are but since patches and updates they become weaker.