32 Replies Latest reply: Jul 18, 2013 7:58 AM by Texas-white-boy RSS

LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.

Cheesegrater28

A lot of people are speculating that the next map will be Agartha, but were we already at Agartha on Shangri La and Mob of the Dead?

 

We don't really know much of Agartha from the game, so like other historical and religious things the game has previously used, the game's story line puts a spin on what the real thing is to better suit its needs. The main things we know about Agartha from the game are that Maxis has been obsessed with it and that Shangri La was supposed to be a gateway to it. And like the Aether, its somehow connected to the Vril.  So was the eclipse Time Travel portion of Shangri La really just us entering Agartha? And is Agartha just a dimension that is created by something or someone's perception of the real world, much like the prison on MotD, where multiple religious themes about the afterlife come together.

 

In Shangri La, we know Brock and Gary entered the time warp before they died. Yet once in the past, they are trapped in a loop and keep reliving the moment over and over, kind of like the Mob of the Dead crew who keep reliving their version of hell over and over. So maybe Agartha is some kind of afterlife realm for the dead controlled by what's in the Aether, and Brock and Gary were stuck in it at that location. On Shangri La, we are able to exit the time warp, as do Brock and Gary when we go back to regular time. So it appears we pull them out of wherever they are. If Shangri La is indeed a gateway to Agartha, then it would make sense to pull things in and out of there and manipulate both places. It also makes sense that Samantha is still controlling the zombies trying to kill us in both times since she is in the Aether and can go after us in both real time and in the other dimension. If it was real time travel which took the crew to before the meteor hit the pyramid, then there would be a good chance Sam wasn't in control.

 

This could also explain Maxis' main goal of reaching Agartha in the first place, which is something he wanted to do ever since Group 935. He says in one of the early radio files on Der Riese that he took the lose of his wife hard and couldn't stand to lose Samantha. So maybe he was intending on entering Agartha and bringing back his wife. We know the MPD on Moon when powered up, is a gateway to the Aether and it collects souls. So maybe Argatha is actually in the Earth like it is fabled to be and it also collects souls, so Maxis wife would be there just like the MotD crew. But Maxis was shot on the Moon and the MPD wasn't powered up yet. So his soul would still be loose which is how he communicates with us now. Spoiler At the end of the Buried EE, he explains he now controls the Aether, so it sounds like he can also control Agartha. He then says everyone will die and he will be reunited with Sam. So if he enters Agartha, he can shape it however he wants, much like how the higher power on MotD tortures the prisoners, and be with his Wife and Daughter.

 

So if any of this is the case, the next map could be Agartha and still be any destination Treyarch wanted. The new team could enter the Rift at Buried and enter Agartha, but the map could be a giant version of Der Reise with bodies everywhere like MotD if thats what Treyarch wanted. At the same time, the old crew was on Moon still. In the radios when Richtofen first went to the Moon, he was also teleported to a jungle, probably Shangri La. So the old team could easily also be teleported back to Shangri La and reenter Agartha from there. So both crews could be on the next map or maps. If they were to bring some old maps back, they could create them as Agartha maps and have bodies everywhere and other interesting things added like the Dog Heads or other mythical things to make the maps different enough from the originals.

 

Another thing to consider is that maybe the Earth itself is already merging with Agartha through the Rift. The two dimensions are becoming one which is why the Earth won't make it according to Maxis, but Agartha will. This could explain a lot of the mysteries of the story like why Nacht is on Tranzit, why an old West style town is in Africa with ghosts, why Die Rise seems to be the only map that for sure takes place in the future, and why the players keep reliving their own loops each time they die, much like Gary and Brock and the MotD crew. So if the Rift isn't fulley repaired, we could get a hell on Earth type storyline, which would be an interesting starting point for the next game.

  • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
    TEX_715

    Thanks for the post, only time to skim now! will have to bookmark this to read with fresh eyes

  • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
    TopAceH3X

    Lord that was a eye full never thought about it that way.

  • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.

    I almost thought Maxis was the better evil guy, phew! This post does seem to make Maxis look better although don't forget he laughed at the destruction of Earth and said the Earth NOR its survivors will live.

    • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
      Cheesegrater28

      He does say regretfully .

       

      But I think he has proven in the past that he is someone who thinks the ends justify the means. In past radios, he insisted on working with the Nazis even though Richtofen informed him some of the other scientists were from different countries and would take offense, he purposely kept testing on humans and turning them into goo with out a care, and he even experimented on his daughters dog. So on one hand he is a mad scientist that doesn't care about any one else, but on the other, he is a father of the year candidate and a caring husband. And probably been driven mad from 115 exposure and from being dead for so long.

      • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.

        Yes, it is true that the fight between Maxis and Richtofen is a type of fight where.. Both sides are bad but Richtofen honestly seems less bad than Maxis. He's willing to kill everyone to get to his daughter and wife. Respectable, yes. However he doesn't seem to like telling the truth and I don't trust him. Richtofen may have the zombies, but if Maxis wins he just offs everyone just like that. At least with Richtofen humanity gets a fighting chance. Into your point of how Maxis had bought the group into the Nazi Party just to demand them all killed later on seems to show that he is a very harsh and tempermental person too.

         

        That's how I see it, as a side note though Richtofen is a so much better character.

        He was my favourite of the original four and is still my favourite.

        • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
          Cheesegrater28

          To me, Richtofen is still the more interesting character of the two. It seems like he is after power for himself, yet he has been influenced and guided by another force ever since he touched the MPD. So he still has a mystery partner where Maxis is running his own side. So I'm interested to see how Richtofens side plays out and what this higher power has planned and needs Richtofen for.

           

          There is also the interesting Altar on Shangri La which has Richs name on it. The Altar resembles the ones all over MotD with the candles and skulls, which could be another link between the two maps and Agartha, but the SL altar has alien skulls and candles on it. So how exactly Richtofen's name got on there is a whole interesting mystery in itself.

          • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
            DeathBringer-Zen

            but the SL altar has alien skulls and candles on it. So how exactly Richtofen's name got on there is a whole interesting mystery in itself.

             

            If the Alien skulls are supposed to be those of the Vril-Ya, then it is possible they foresaw the events of what would transpire with Earth, and it's timeline, and maybe they put his name there as a prophecy of things to come.

             

            To me, Richtofen is still the more interesting character of the two. It seems like he is after power for himself, yet he has been influenced and guided by another force ever since he touched the MPD.

             

            He is definitely power mad, and the more interesting of the two. What I have noticed through the BO2 EE's, is that everything Richtofen has said about Maxis is TRUE.

             

            He said that Maxis intended on destroying the Earth and killing us all, and the box on Buried revealed this to be true.

             

            Maxis intention is to destroy Earth so he can enter Agartha and reincarnate Samantha, and then the Earth itself presumably.

             

            Richtofen want to heal the rifts in time and repair the world, so he can be the omnipotent being who rules over it. Either way, the world is already in complete disarry, with next to no survivors left... just masses of the undead, so with this in mind, is what Maxis has planned really that bad? He is (supposedly) trying to get rid of this Earth, filled with Z's and nothing much else, and reincarnating it back into a cleansed state.

             

            Ricky wants it healed, but with him still controlling the dead like a puppet theatre, playing games with the planets inhabitants.

             

            This 'End Game' has definitely given the story enthusiasts like myself some food for thought. I still like Richtofen, but maybe was misguided when I thought that he was maybe the lesser of two evils. I am definitely looking forward to seeing where the story goes with the final DLC.

            • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
              Cheesegrater28

              Completely agree.

               

              One thing that is also interesting and kind of backs up my theory, is that Richtofen is the one after power. He also had something giving him information about the Vril technology and yet he has no interest in Agartha at all. All the power lies in the Aether for him.  And yet Maxis is obsessed with Agartha. Even when he takes control of the Aether and has all the power, he is still only interested in going to Agartha, which reinforces the idea that its a place of the dead, since the only thing he seems to want is to reunite with his family.

               

              Which brings me back to my long post and wondering if Agartha is kind of like the Matrix for souls. Does the power in the Aether control and manipulate Agartha and shape it to its will to collect the souls for some Vril purpose. Sam and Richtofen were both in the Aether with some other being. This being could be what was running Agatha with the red eyes in MotD, since both Rich and Sam didn't have complete control of the Aether and neither one was interested in Agartha, except when Richtofen and the others went there in Shangri La and Sam still had the power to attack them. So now that Maxis is in complete control, he can reunite with his family there and shape the whole world in that dimension to his desires and let the real Earth dimension just die away. But Richtofen might know what the real purpose of Agatha is, so he has no interest in going there. So Rich would be like Neo and Maxis would be like Joe Pantolianos Cypher, which would be awesome if that was the keyword to Al's code on MotD and a hint at the story.

              • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
                DeathBringer-Zen

                Well, I expect Agartha to be mentioned again in the final DLC, but I am unsure of whether we will actually visit the place in BO2, due to system constraints and a terrible engine that would choke. I just think that an Agartha map would be reserved for the next gen console debut, as it could be wasted on this setup.

                 

                My guess is that we will be attempting to prevent Maxis from doing what he has planned, with the assistance of Richtofen, so maybe it will be a single EE this time, as opposed to two seperate ones, like it has been all the way through BO2 so far.

                 

                Richtofen got his way at the end of BO1, so my guess is that Maxis will come out on top at the end of the last map, but with another cliffhanger that will lead us into BO3.

                 

                Changes to the current maps are no longer something I expect to happen, with the exception of maybe a perk being added, like PHD.

              • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
                DeathBringer-Zen

                Actually, having read over your post again, I have gathered a theory in my head.

                 

                If Richtofen ented the MPD, and gained access to a place that contained souls of the dead throughout time, then he would himself be able to manipulate those souls, would he not?

                 

                Ok.... let's start with this. If Agartha is a place that exists, where the dead (souls) go to, and live another chapter in their existance, then this is the same place we would find our characters from the MotD map, is it not? So if Richtofen was in control, or had at least SOME power within this realm, then he could play with them in this realm also, like he intends to on Earth, so...

                 

                What if, the characters from MotD are in the place between Agartha and Life... Limbo... a place where a person can be stuck, until they accept they ARE dead, and repent their sins, and Richtofen is playing a game with them? This could be why the perks are phasing in and out. He has the power to use them in this realm, and does so to play around with this group.

                 

                If we ARE to visit Agartha, or at the least, get into detail about it in the next, or a future map, then this will definitely tie MotD into the storyline once more.

                • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
                  Cheesegrater28

                  I wasn't even thinking about the perks fading in and out, but now that you bring them up, maybe it's a sign of how Richtofen, who made some of the perks, is having an impact on Agartha since he is partly in control, yet the other power is still in charge which is why their perk machine and weapon box don't fade in and out. I'm arguing that Maxis wants to take over the Aether so he can enter and control Agartha, and the perk machines are direct hint at him being able to since Richtofen, who is only partly in control and doesn't care about Agartha, is having an effect on how the map is changing.

                   

                  This then brings us back to the question we asked before which is why is the higher power on MotD creating their own perk machines and testing it on the prisoners. Maybe its not about energy but that they are testing humans somehow and have helped Richtofen take power since he has a lot of experience with doing tests on people. They see him as one of their own.

  • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
    Nei11io

    Good post mate. I think Shangri la is Argartha. If you think back to Call of the dead it was an old Navy base in Antartica, well I'm aware of a quite a well known conspiracy theory about the earth being hollow( to which there are references to in blop2) to which the Nazi were supossed to have taken seriously, to the extent that a secret Nazi base was set up in an area call Queen Maud land, Antartica.

    It was believed that this was where you could get access through an entrance to the hollow earth. Whats interesting is that the place within the Earth is refered to as either Shangri La or Argartha. So I've assumed that Call of the dead was this Nazi base where the entrance supposibly was  and as the next map was Shangri La to me It makes sense. It may also explain the trippy loading screen of Shangri la, to me it kind of looks like a artists impression of this mythical place within the Earth.

    • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
      Cheesegrater28

      Interesting ideas. I'm gonna check out Queen Maud when I get the chance. My perception of the events is that they enter Agartha at Shangri La. Once they enter the time warp and there is an eclipse, they are actually in Agartha. Perhaps Agartha is always absent of the sun since MotD is at night and focuses on the Moon. And the Day cross over Me sign on Tranzit could be about crossing over from the 2 dimensions, like a "Go into the light" kind of thing.

       

      And I didn't even think to look at the loading screen ever since I started thinking about this. Now looking at it with this theory in mind, which means I'm seeing whatever I want to, it could be the power in the Aether reshaping Shangri La in Agartha, since we see the eclipse. Looks like its being pulled out of the ground and the pyramids are being shaped. This could be where and what Richtofen saw when the power teleported him to the jungle from the Moon.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XQozZfk_zM

       

      It could have led him to the real temple, showed him the gateway to Agartha, and then reshaped it for him to show its power, and then pulled it out with him, which is how his name ends up on the Altar in the real world. Seeing that power could be what's driving him and convincing him he can fix the Earth from within the Aether and then control everything.

      • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
        TopAceH3X

        I would assume that agratha would not have any sunlight due to the fact its in side earth. The eclipse in shangri-la  is agratha,the sunny side it what? If motd is in agratha then does that mean that the same person that controls brutus is richtofens partner in crime? If motd does in fact take place in agratha then wouldn't that mean that the someone must have taken control between the time of motd and shangri-la(with then having different announcers). Sorry if it doesn't make sense i'm still trying to process all of this.

        • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
          Cheesegrater28

          I know, its confusing which is why I annoyingly keep making big posts. (I mean that I'm probably annoying others, not that I'm annoyed. Didn't want anyone to thing I was saying they annoy me.) Trying to be as clear as possible. I'm thinking Agartha might be inside the Earth, but it might just actually be a soul collecting device or devices like the MPD on Moon. The MPD is Vril technology that links to the Aether. And that technology is powered by a few things, one of which is souls. So to the Vril, the soul is a source of energy. So Agatha might just be a dimension created by the Vril to store souls for some purpose like the Matrix. And kind of  like how the machines feed on humans while their conscience lives in the Matrix, the souls fill the Agartha for some unknown reason like the Vril are storing energy. Instead of a virtual world, its an alternate dimension.

           

          The Vril use the physical world and other things like religion to create the dimension the souls live in. Like on MotD, there is a reference to multiple religions all mashed up to create a hell version of the real prison the prisoners were living in, and making them relive that moment over and over. So they think they are at Alcatraz where they can see the Moon and sky, but really they are in the Agartha. Their souls were collected by it when they died on Earth, and for whatever reason, the power in charge has forced them to live their hell out together. Maybe they gain energy each time the soul dies.

           

          So at Shangri La, when the sun is out they are really at Shangri La, but when the eclipse is out, they are on the other side of Agartha's gateway which they activated with the switches. They entered the dimension like the dead do, but can also leave through the gateway. That's why Brock and Gary who also entered the gateway and keep dying and reliving the same loop over and over. They entered Agartha and are now trapped in it like the MotD prisoners, until Tank and the others go through the gate, save them from the loop, and then somehow bring them back and forth through the gateway.

           

          And Richtofen says "can you hear them" about the voices he hears, so there is probably more than 1 being in the MPD. But the reason we see the red eyes on MotD is because the powers in the MPD with Rich or Sam are still in control over the Agartha. In Shangri La, the same power was probably in charge again, but we get the orange eyed zombies because Sam is still going after Richtofen and the others. So she could also control Agartha if she wants to from the Aether.

          • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
            TopAceH3X

            Nah you're not annoying i'm glad someone around here at least try to figure things out and show intrest. So if agratha is where they stored souls does that mean maxis want to go to agratha to get his wife and daughter souls. Do the souls materialize when exiting the portal? Plus if richtofen has no intrest in agartha why do we kill zombies under the tower during the tranzit EE? Could the Vril just be controlling richtofen now that he has come into the aether? So many question damn trollarch....

            • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
              Cheesegrater28

              I think Maxis wants to go there and stay there. Since he controls the Aether, he would have the power to make the dimension whatever he wanted and live with his wife and daughter. And I'm not really sure what a soul that crossed back over would look like since we haven't come across one for sure. Maybe any escaped souls might be like what the ghost on Buried is. So if a soul makes its way back, it would be like her, a ghost stuck in one place. So the Weasel who also may have escaped the dimension could be a similar thing at Alcatraz prison. Something that doesn't have its actual body. Could also be something like what Maxis was. Who knows? But on Shangri La, both the old crew and Brock and Gary entered Agartha in their bodies, so they could leave in their bodies, so we can't compare it to that.

               

              And on Tranzit, Richtofen needed the 115 from the zombies, not the souls. Perhaps 115's energy is like weaker version of the souls energy. The Aether uses 115 to control the zombies, which are soulless bodies, but they are a lot less efficient than humans with souls. Which is why Richtofen needs us to complete his towers. And I'm not really sure how much control the Vril had over him since his end game was to block them out somehow and take full control over the Aether. They will might finally come into play in the next DLC since it would be in their interest to retake the power away from both Maxis and Rich. I still think both sides will come to a similar ending with the same thing in control so the next game can start from one beginning.

            • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
              scoop121578

              i think for richtofen's ee in tranzit , die rise, and buried your amping the signal of richtofens power by using elf waves to reach richtofen in the mpd so he could gain more power. dosent 115 have a high frequency elements to it? 

      • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
        Nei11io

        There is a smaller Sun within the Earth ( as the theory goes ) so it could work.

    • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
      Rockker-1993

      I always believed call of the dead to be a siberian outpost, mainly because of the description at the selection:

       

      "A shipwrecked crew of fearless explorers is hopelessly stranded in an abandoned Siberian outpost. Their dream of discovering the true origins of the Element 115 unravels into a hellish nightmare."

  • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
    kudo shinichi 1

    From the way I see it, maxis is more evil. He nukes the earth, and then promises it destruction and that everyone will die. He does not say that he ill repair it or not. Where as richtofen is trying to mend the rift and fix the earth, another thing is he is trying to return to earth through samuel. Heck even in the easter egg maxis does betray the surviors bu promising their death after helping him where richtofen thanks them and gives you a fire sale and mule kick plus. If the next map continues the story then it seems dpending on the easter egg you will either have to destroy maxis or end richtofens control.

     

     

    And for those who side with maxis rember how many inisant people him and his daughter have killed with both the zombies and nukes. Hell call of the dead shows the earth is still normal in are time as there are movies and what not made and he nukes the earth. From what you learn on die rise is there are other surviors fighting and tring to survive. Richtofen all the way

     

    As for the time line it seems like they keep going forward in time as call of the dead is present and die rise is future and buried follows right after.

  • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
    Keeeef

    I'm really losing hope that the new characters will return aswell. I mean, how would they do it? It would have to be a HELL of a long cutscene in the beginning to explain how they're back.

     

    I really hope they're playable once more, and I hope the last map tells us some of the things we've been questioning for a long time now. I'm hype as hell lol.

     

    So, Agartha is supposed to be in the center of the Earth.. and the new crew are at the rift, which is where buried takes place. What could POSSIBLY be next?

  • Re: LONG Theory about what Agartha is and if we were already there.
    Texas-white-boy

    What if Aether and Agartha are two separate afterworlds Aether powered by Element 115 is used to control things that are touched by 115 ergo the zombies, hellhounds, etc, etc. Agartha is powered by the human souls and is therefor is much more powerful. Now what if the Vril knew all of this was going to happen that's why they put Richtofen's name on the alter (So he would know to take the focus stone), that is why they use voices in his head to speak to him. I think the Vril are using Richtofen or Maxis to get to Agartha they don't really care who gets there as long as it's some one. That way they can us the almost infinite power of all the human souls of the entire human race for the last 100,000 years or so. This could be the reason why they left all these things behind that way people could go to Agartha because they need a human to open the door. They even could have built Agartha to collect souls but were some how locked out until a human opens the door. What they will do with the power I don't know. Odds are weapon of some sort OR maybe the Vril built all this long ago and locked themselves in Agartha and waited for Humanity to be able to find them. When the Vril awake they might either kill all the humans or usher in the Vril humanity race that will be able to rule the galaxy in some sort of golden age. but knowing Trearch they are probably evil.