29 Replies Latest reply: Sep 3, 2013 6:30 PM by Adam1234567893 Branched to a new discussion. RSS

It's time to kill the mini-map…

rankismet

First off… this is not about starting a flame war or another pointless Core versus Hardcore debate. It's an attempt to talk frankly about the one things which cause the most angst in COD… the mini-map.

 

It's time to kill it.

 

Without it… the games will be slow and boring.

 

Nope. I play HC a lot… 90% of the time, TBH… so, I'm used to it not being there. And it really has little to do with the pace of the game. HC KC  and Dom play as fast as Core. The players, the mode, and the map design drive pace more than anything. I bet better Core players use it for map navigation and quick reference, anyway. A skill that doesn't need a mini-map… once you truly pick it up.

 

But it shows you where the enemy is.

 

A little… but not much. You don't show up with a suppressed weapon and the guy is just as likely waiting for you to chicken-head around a corner. They know you know. Same applies to the UAV/SatCom. Regardless… you have the full map and communication trumps a mini-map. Always.

 

But it shows where your mates are.

 

Again… a little. It's a limited FOV. The full map is much more useful, TBH. And there's the little thing called communication. It trumps everything. Always. Six days a week and twice on Sunday.

 

More important… Ghosts is giving you some great ways to find enemies. The new sound system gives directionality and now an idea of distance, too. The way they shape the sound is great. Plus, there are now AI call outs. Amazing how communication keeps coming up, isn't it?

 

Simple truth… the mini-map is a crutch. It's COD's security blanket.

 

And it's holding the game back.

 

It's time to kill it and button up the big-boy pants.

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    RedNight129

    every fps has a mini  map why should cod not have one

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    zvers

    I remember the good old days of cod2, no spy plane-red dot crap at all. You were forced to learn the maps and the tendencies of your opponents which takes time. I agree that it's more interesting without a map at all, I have become a HC addict because of that and the quickness of getting a kill or getting killed. Makes you think about it more IMO.

     

    Sadly, I don't think they will kill it though. Maybe bump it up higher in the score streak list? I don't know. Seems like it's here to stay. Some people just need training wheels to play games. Unfortunately this leads to people thinking "If they are using it, I need to use it or else i'm at a disadvantage". So you get tons of UAV's. I think the Ghost nerf caused this to go extreme in BO2.

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    Foxhound-Pro

    Being honest, there isn't a solid argument in here for why it should be removed. The only real argument presented is that communication and situational awareness is better than staring at and only trusting in the dots that you see on a mini-map as the location of the enemy. That said, the real argument doesn't pertain to most of us. You're preaching to the choir in that respect.

    • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
      rankismet

      Foxhound-Pro wrote:

       

      Being honest, there isn't a solid argument in here for why it should be removed. The only real argument presented is that communication and situational awareness is better than staring at and only trusting in the dots that you see on a mini-map as the location of the enemy. That said, the real argument doesn't pertain to most of us. You're preaching to the choir in that respect.

       

      TBH, the primary driver behind the thought is how much focus the mini-map seems to get from the community. If there was no mini-map...

       

      ... would we have the outcry when there are no dots?

       

      At this point in the lifecycle of COD, I think it can be removed. It has it's place with greenies in combat training or some other playlist intended for learning the ins and outs of the game.

       

      I honestly feel it's holding back the long term growth of the game.

       

      • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
        maccabi

        rankismet wrote:

         

        Foxhound-Pro wrote:

         

        Being honest, there isn't a solid argument in here for why it should be removed. The only real argument presented is that communication and situational awareness is better than staring at and only trusting in the dots that you see on a mini-map as the location of the enemy. That said, the real argument doesn't pertain to most of us. You're preaching to the choir in that respect.

         

        TBH, the primary driver behind the thought is how much focus the mini-map seems to get from the community. If there was no mini-map...

         

        ... would we have the outcry when there are no dots?

         

        At this point in the lifecycle of COD, I think it can be removed. It has it's place with greenies in combat training or some other playlist intended for learning the ins and outs of the game.

         

        I honestly feel it's holding back the long term growth of the game.

         

        I've said this time and time again imo the minimap should be in the game for core BUT only when someone calls in a uav/satcom

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    NoLifeKing29

    Missed the part where you provided a reason for its removal. Stating your opinion on how its holding the game back does not qualify as a reason since you provided no evidence as to how its accomplishing this feat. They aren't going to remove the minimap in Ghosts, so just another suggestion thread that is going to fade into oblivion.

    • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
      rankismet

      NoLifeKing29 wrote:

       

      Missed the part where you provided a reason for its removal. Stating your opinion on how its holding the game back does not qualify as a reason since you provided no evidence as to how its accomplishing this feat. They aren't going to remove the minimap in Ghosts, so just another suggestion thread that is going to fade into oblivion.

       

      There's no justification to keep it.

       

      That's the reason to remove it.

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    t.h.flame

    I think the mini map should exist, but the red dots should have to be earned.  I don't mind unsuppressed weapons showing up as red dots, but the radar is just way to easy to get. 

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    alexjt22

    I would prefer to go back to the Compass Radar like pre COD4 games had where red dots would show up the direction and certain distance but because there is no map on the radar you cant know for sure the exact pin point location of an enemy like you can with the mini map. Something like this would reduce the power of the radar while also keeping red dots up on a radar so people know approximately where the action is happening and are more likely to move that way and it would also bring in a bit of skill to be able to read the radar effectively to use it proficiently.

     

    You also have to remember most people don't play with a party so call outs are pretty useless way for the majority to be used as a radar subtitute.

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    r8edtripx

    rankismet wrote:

     

    First off… this is not about starting a flame war or another pointless Core versus Hardcore debate. It's an attempt to talk frankly about the one things which cause the most angst in COD… the mini-map.

     

    It's time to kill it.

     

    Without it… the games will be slow and boring.

     

    Nope. I play HC a lot… 90% of the time, TBH… so, I'm used to it not being there. And it really has little to do with the pace of the game. HC KC  and Dom play as fast as Core. The players, the mode, and the map design drive pace more than anything. I bet better Core players use it for map navigation and quick reference, anyway. A skill that doesn't need a mini-map… once you truly pick it up.

     

    But it shows you where the enemy is.

     

    A little… but not much. You don't show up with a suppressed weapon and the guy is just as likely waiting for you to chicken-head around a corner. They know you know. Same applies to the UAV/SatCom. Regardless… you have the full map and communication trumps a mini-map. Always.

     

    But it shows where your mates are.

     

    Again… a little. It's a limited FOV. The full map is much more useful, TBH. And there's the little thing called communication. It trumps everything. Always. Six days a week and twice on Sunday.

     

    More important… Ghosts is giving you some great ways to find enemies. The new sound system gives directionality and now an idea of distance, too. The way they shape the sound is great. Plus, there are now AI call outs. Amazing how communication keeps coming up, isn't it?

     

    Simple truth… the mini-map is a crutch. It's COD's security blanket.

     

    And it's holding the game back.

     

    It's time to kill it and button up the big-boy pants.

    Most players do not do the whole communication thing because they run solo and there is a lot of douche-baggery out there so the mute button has become our friend.

     

    If most people played in teams and constantly communicated and had callouts, THEN the minimap might not be so important to the pace of the game. ...but this is a hypothetical that is FAR from reality.

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    mickilla

    I believe you're onto the right idea- the minimap is a distraction, and the devs use it as an excuse to fill their maps with unnecessary clutter. If the minimap is taken away, players have to use their bare eyes. If so, then game development and map design can be done based around the idea that line of sight means everything. Decisions about how well camouflaged a player should be will also have to be made more deliberately. From the ground-up, the maps would have to actually fit a shooting game... go figure!

     

    To that end, I couldn't agree more. But with that said, whether or not the minimap exists never should have been an excuse for the devs to ignore the above issues. We should have expected that much of them the whole time, and we should be furious that they've failed so hard to take these into account over the last few releases. The minimap itself should have always been trivial- but unfortunately we've allowed it to become a thousand times more important than it really should have been. Shame on us all for allowing this to happen.

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    surridge1990

    I would prefer to able to see the whole map (in minature form) but see team mates on it during normal play, if and when SATCOMs start being introduced enemies will start appearing as dots/arrows.

     

    When there is no SATCOM enemies do not appear at all whether they are firing or not until the SATCOM is called in,

     

    I think this would be fair game because teammates can still call out locations of enemies and each player can see where they're team mates are in relation to them but still having to use they senses and map knowledge to figure out where the enemy will be attacking from.

     

    It could also be useful for HC modes, its a horrible feeling throwing a grenade into a building and then seeing your team mate run through the opposite door because you didnt know he was there when you threw the nade

    • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
      LifeSong1

      I didn't see your post before I posted mine...much of the same ideas...

    • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
      Foxhound-Pro

      surridge1990 wrote:

       

      I would prefer to able to see the whole map (in minature form) but see team mates on it during normal play, if and when SATCOMs start being introduced enemies will start appearing as dots/arrows.

       

      When there is no SATCOM enemies do not appear at all whether they are firing or not until the SATCOM is called in,

       

      I think this would be fair game because teammates can still call out locations of enemies and each player can see where they're team mates are in relation to them but still having to use they senses and map knowledge to figure out where the enemy will be attacking from.

       

      It could also be useful for HC modes, its a horrible feeling throwing a grenade into a building and then seeing your team mate run through the opposite door because you didnt know he was there when you threw the nade

       

      As a compromise I like this idea. If we could extend this to aerial, offensive KS/PS then I would be satisfied with it. I often use the audio cues and mini-map to judge what I can do to safely escape a HK. I have, many a time, been able to avoid death by last second dodging behind an obstacle or around the corner. The same applies with similar content.

       

      I still don't think there is valid argument here to remove out right. "There's not reason to keep it" is also not an acceptable justification IMO.

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    ab36

    Personally I'm not a big fan of how the mini map gives so much info (I still don't like how it gives exact position when an enemy fires an unsuppressed or unsilenced weapon. I've heard about older games just showing a red light indication of the direction the shots came from, and that sounds a lot better. Kind of like what alex said. I wouldn't want to kill the mini map altogether though, but that's just me. I like it to help navigate the map. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the crutches Call of Duty gives either, but the minimap is pretty valuable. And you're not going to have every single teammate with a mic, let alone ones that will actively communicate where they are every second. I would like for an ability to hold down select or something to bring up the full map though, pausing the game is ok but kind of more risky. If they were to nerf the minimap though, I wouldn't be upset. Or at least nerf the way the red dots show up.

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    Privx420x

    The Big boy pants in video games fell apart when Socom died.

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    nuttin2say

    You want a reason the mini-map should be removed? Here's one ...

     

    It blocks the player's view from seeing all that is in front of him. As a result, an opponent that comes from the top left corner of the player's field of view is, in reality, in full view. But since the player's view is blocked by the mini-map, the opponent seems to have "been there the whole time" and is, thus, labelled a camper. In reality, the opponent was not camping but attacking.

     

    Remove the mini-map and there will be a substantial reduction in arguments about camping.

     

    Here's another wild idea. A compromise ...

     

    The spinning Halo jump quick shot [edit - I forgot to mention the full-auto 50 gazillion caliber aspect of SR's ... that can stay, as well]  sniper rifles can stay and the aimbot steady aim SMGs that don't even require players to point in the general direction can stay, too ... but allow the mini-map show up once someone on the team has earned it ... and it MUST be an 8 kill or higher kill streak reward.

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    EphemeralSniper

    I don't mind the minimap, but I'd like the map to be accessible somehow, whether it be using the Ghosts app coming out or pressing start. I don't exactly like having to press start to view the map though because it creates the chance for me to get killed. I only use silencers to stay off the minimap and without it silencers would be useless except to avoid soundwhores.

    • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
      rankismet

      EphemeralSniper wrote:

       

      I don't mind the minimap, but I'd like the map to be accessible somehow, whether it be using the Ghosts app coming out or pressing start. I don't exactly like having to press start to view the map though because it creates the chance for me to get killed. I only use silencers to stay off the minimap and without it silencers would be useless except to avoid soundwhores.

       

      I would love to the new second screen coming with next-gen actually display the full map during gameplay.

  • Re: It's time to kill the mini-map…
    Adam1234567893

    That's funny cause every time I play Hardcore it's either slow and campy or nothing but spawn exploitation the mini map allows all players to play pretty much how they want.