25 Replies Latest reply: Nov 12, 2011 1:06 PM by AeroXlll RSS

Lag compensation...why?

ghorman

We all know that there is lag compensation built into the code, but my question is why?  Why should players with good connections get punished for a dial-up user?  Its not like the dialup user doesn't know he has a bad connection.  Many times as host I get lag and sometimes its almost unplayable. I know it's not my connection or router because I'm running 50MB down and 5up with a good ping with an open NAT.  What do you guys think? Should we have lag compensation code where 90% of the world has a fast connection option or bow down the cheap player on dialup?

  • Lag compensation...why?

    So you want everyone who has a bad connection to be repeatedly raped because their bullets connect a full 2-3 seconds after yours? Especially with the death negation effect? It'd be the equivalent of using a lag-switch in Ground War.

    • Re: Lag compensation...why?
      ghorman

      Why add lag to the game?  If you have a poor connection the rest of the players shouldn't have to pay the price for it.  If you have a bad connection you should not aspect it to run like a fast bandwidth connection when you are online.  Thats like punishing a student for getting a good grade but you round the score down to the average of the class.

      • Re: Lag compensation...why?

        So you're saying it's okay for the dumb and stupid to repeatedly fail not out of their own fault but because the school system won't help them? Kaaay...

         

        And it's not "adding" lag. If you have such a good connection why would you be getting lag regardless of how bad someone's speed is?

         

        It's like Halo, amico; whoever gets the Rocket Launcher first ***** the hell out of everyone else. Do the others get a chance to fight back? Of course not. That's what you're trying to imagine, and it's not balanced at all.

        • Re: Lag compensation...why?
          ghorman

          So, you believe every child should get a medal no matter how they perform?  Why try at that point?  People should not get rewarded or given advantages for being cheap (internet connection) or for performing poorly.

           

          I believe in hard work and earning what you get.

          • Re: Lag compensation...why?

            So the poor people who've no chance of getting a job in this rough economy should be punished for what they can't afford? Nice. Tell that to them and see how much your face hurts at the end of the day.

             

            And I didn't say that everyone should get medals for nothing, I said why let someone fail repeatedly if they can't help it. It's like saying a retarded kid's too stupid to live, so we should cast them out because they weren't smart enough for the rest of us. Savvy?

            • Re: Lag compensation...why?
              ghorman

              I don't know anyone who has been out of work more than 3 months, and that includes people without degrees.  If you have been out of work for more than 6 months you need to put your pride aside and take a lesser job or get off your butt and start looking.  The world is not fair, it's hard work making a living.  I paid my way thru college without loans, with two kids and a full time job.  You get out what you put in, plain and simple.  Players who have a better connections should not be slowed down for players with a less connection.

              • Re: Lag compensation...why?

                Well too bad. There are people less fortunate than you. In your way of thinking; there are worse people. Sucks for you to have a better connection. Deal with it and move on; it isn't changing anytime soon.

                 

                I'm sick and tired of your egotistic psychology. I would bet money that if you were in a real bad cinch, you'd be crying your ass off about how it's not your fault and whatnot. I myself am doing well, but do you see me walking around saying "oh your life sucks, too bad for you"? Of course not, because I'm not a self-absorbed piece of trash. Now take it like a man or don't play.

              • Re: Lag compensation...why?
                vims1990

                OP, I think you're forgetting that the lag compensation discussion happened during Black Ops.

                 

                I didn't notice it that much in MW2 since connection for players on a 3 or 4 bar was pretty consistant. On Black Ops, connection was a widely discussed topic on the Black Ops forums and still is discussed as a flaw of Black Ops.

                 

                It all comes to a good matchmaking system & host selection.

                MW2 didn't have issues (apart for Australia/NZ in the first couple of months) but after that, the game ran well. It also ran on a ping matchmaking system.

                 

                Black Ops however had issues with their matchmaking system.

                Even with locale only, they still place me in foreign lobbies.

  • Lag compensation...why?

    What are they doing to compensate? Bc I live right outside the line where I cant get High-speed internet so I had to buy a Wireless internet box from a local phone company. Playing cod i normally have 3 bars while being the only one on internet. Netflix or Facebook messes that up for me, lol. Will this help my predicament?

  • Re: Lag compensation...why?
    vims1990

    Are you specifically talking Treyarch or IW games?

     

    From my experience with IW games going back to COD4, they seem to be pretty consistant for most players on a 3 or 4 connection. There was advantage for being on a 4 bar or host, but being on a 3 bar wasn't that bad

     

    However with Treyarch games, they can be inconsistant with connection. I've never felt "out of sync" with the rest of the other players compared to IW's COD games.

  • Re: Lag compensation...why?

    What is lag compensation? lol

  • Re: Lag compensation...why?

    The OP clearly doesn't understand that a proper/working lag compensation helps EVERYONE.

     

    If the people with terrible internet are playing with people that have 'uber1337beast' connectons, then everyones game will be aweful.

     

    The people with poor connections will find themselves 'teleporting' around the map

    The people with great connections will find themselves shooting at people who are teleporting around.

     

    Tell me, how good are you at leading a target who can jump from A to B without having to run? I don't imagine you're very good at that.

  • Re: Lag compensation...why?
    slyaudio

    The lag script as far as I was aware still works on who has the fastest reaction, therefore the only reason you are at a disadvantage is if you SHOULD have died in the first place.

     

    Take for example the laggy player is behind you, as he starts shooting you turn around and open fire. His game registers that he killed you mid turning, while that information is being sent to the host you turn and lay enough lead into him to kill him, however the information reachs the host just prior to your 'kill' and you die.

     

    Now with equal ping, you would easily have to say that they had the jump on you and deserved the kill, but instead you say that just because you have the better connection and your kill SHOULD have registered first that you should get the kill? Your not talking about the game being fair, what you are saying is that you assumably have a god given right to win, regardless of if the other player outplayed you.

  • Re: Lag compensation...why?
    mdub

    ghorman wrote:

     

    We all know that there is lag compensation built into the code, but my question is why?  Why should players with good connections get punished for a dial-up user?  Its not like the dialup user doesn't know he has a bad connection.  Many times as host I get lag and sometimes its almost unplayable. I know it's not my connection or router because I'm running 50MB down and 5up with a good ping with an open NAT.  What do you guys think? Should we have lag compensation code where 90% of the world has a fast connection option or bow down the cheap player on dialup?


    Its probably the fact that your ISP traffic shapes the shite out of your connection which produces lag for the rest of us. Your probably one of those geniuses that play over a wireless connection and then blame everyone else for your garbage router that your traffic shaping ISP provided. See how quickly a misinformed opinion can piss people off? You cant play online shooters without lag compensation because they would be unplayable.

  • Re: Lag compensation...why?
    maccabi

    ghorman wrote:

     

    We all know that there is lag compensation built into the code, but my question is why?  Why should players with good connections get punished for a dial-up user?  Its not like the dialup user doesn't know he has a bad connection.  Many times as host I get lag and sometimes its almost unplayable. I know it's not my connection or router because I'm running 50MB down and 5up with a good ping with an open NAT.  What do you guys think? Should we have lag compensation code where 90% of the world has a fast connection option or bow down the cheap player on dialup?

     

     

    first off with all due respect you havent got a clue what lag comp is or how it works,

    more on that in a mo...

    Secondly lulz you linked porktornados thread from last year, interesting fact about that little thread, he posted it on the blops forum.. then got a few mindless idiots praising him for it and promptly posted it all over the internet i mean seriously look how he worded the introduction... To be polite ..his epeen was writting checks his actual knowledge couldnt pay. He got pulled up and promptly dissapeared off the forums i'll let you guess who by .

     

    So lag comp does NOT punish  good connections, its a handy theory to hug though as you can use it to explan why you did bad in a game but its not correct at all.

     

    lag comp equals out ping, everyone regardless of how great they think their connection is , still has a ping that varies with each connection to a host, it is based off distance to host and how your traffic is routed through the net, this can be anything from type of connection to how your isp manages traffic to the route the packet travels.Especially on consoles where game traffic also has to got thru the platforms systesm too.

     

    You dont have a "faster" connection, all having a 50 down 5 up means is you can download MORE at the same time at the same speed, the 50 and 5 do not relate to speed they relate to bandwidth. There is a finite speed limit to ping without going into the maths its quite easy to say at x distance your ping would be x . You cannot say you have a good ping as it changes all the time and depending what and more importantly where you pinging too.

     

    when you play online on dedicated servers for example lowest ping wins, the higher your ping the worse your game expereince will be, the same is true for listen servers (as cod uses) although you also have to account for the host not really having a ping.

     

    All lag comp does is use one of three main methods of equalling everyones ping out artificiially using a set of algorthims and or methods, or by the host updating players with a predictive assumption of where a player will be a few ms later than the update is sent. . Cod for example using a system that rewinds the game state for everyone at the start of the match in miliseconds so what you see on your screen is basically a rough esitimation of how the game would look if everyone had the same ping. Where this shows up is with stuff like theatre and killcams as these are from the hosts data minus lag comp applied so there is a disparity , hence you get the killed behind cover scenerios, the shot the guy in the back but killcam shows you facing him and dying. and before you say it as im sure you will, no this doesnt matter yes you arent seeing what the host "sees" but you are seeing what you and everyone else sees and thats what your game is based off the fact killcams and theatre dont collalte is by the by its not a representation of what happened on YOUR screen, people just try to justify their death by saying it wasnt my fault look at the killcam.. doesnt work like that im afraid.

     

    Basically nutshell answer, we NEED lag comp nowadays, especially on consoles, its been in games for years but people are complaining about it nowadays as its become the latest in a long line of incorrectly blamed gaming phrases for what was basically you got killed move on..

    • Re: Lag compensation...why?

      beat me to it, that is a well thought out and detailed reply

      • Re: Lag compensation...why?
        ghorman

        Thank you for a nice reply but i still have a hard time understand as host why it would lag to the point where its unplayable and your shoots don't connect.  It's not sololy based off ping to host because then the host should run as smooth as silk.  I know IW and Treyarch use a little different code in this department and it could totally be a treyarch issue.  IW has been good in this department I just don't want to see this in the new game.

        • Re: Lag compensation...why?
          maccabi

          ghorman wrote:

           

          Thank you for a nice reply but i still have a hard time understand as host why it would lag to the point where its unplayable and your shoots don't connect.  It's not sololy based off ping to host because then the host should run as smooth as silk.  I know IW and Treyarch use a little different code in this department and it could totally be a treyarch issue.  IW has been good in this department I just don't want to see this in the new game.

          you're not going to like this answer, alot of the trouble a host has is down to two main factors, their own home network /equipment cant handle the traffic adequately. This is really apparent if for example you're on cable and using the bog standard equipment the isp gave youand /or cable users have a slightly harder time than most if they are host due to the way games read the initial skewed infomation from a cable host as alot of cable isps give a "boost" when you first connct and this throws off all lag comp /host calculations.

           

          but what you said is based off your opinion for every if im host i cant play comment, there is an equal number of players who will swear blind if they are host they have an advantage.

           

          swings and round abouts.  you're playing over the internet nothing is certain.

           

           

           

           

          The Elagaphant V.2  Now with added flair!
                                       Xbox optimization
  • Re: Lag compensation...why?

    ghorman wrote:

     

    We all know that there is lag compensation built into the code, but my question is why?  Why should players with good connections get punished for a dial-up user?  Its not like the dialup user doesn't know he has a bad connection.  Many times as host I get lag and sometimes its almost unplayable. I know it's not my connection or router because I'm running 50MB down and 5up with a good ping with an open NAT.  What do you guys think? Should we have lag compensation code where 90% of the world has a fast connection option or bow down the cheap player on dialup?

     

    The fact of the matter is that the ping time of opposing players has more to do with your issue than the down/up speed of their connection. Even with the highest priced service from their ISP, if they are too far away from you, they will have a higher ping. Distance is always the main culprit, but there could be other issues on their end.

     

    Example of how players get matched up with bad hosts. It's out of everyone's control.

     

    3 people are in a party. One is from California, one is from Louisana, and the other is from Florida. Matchmaking is going to place these guys in a lobby where only 1 of them is going to have a low ping with the host. I've noticed it doesn't use the party leaders region for matchmaking, it seems to pick any player. So if they end up in a lobby full of California players, the person in Louisana is going to have a higher ping and the person in Florida is going to have an even higher ping. Whoever is hosting the match will have more lag compensation for the latter 2 players.

     

    Mercernary modes, which do not allow parties, probably run a lot smoother in general. You are more likely to not get any distant players in your lobby.

     

    There's a similar issue even if there were dedicated servers. Players who are closer to the server will have a lower ping, but at least the servers are optimized for hosting. Hence why it's much easier to play games like Battlefield or even Homefront with friends who are all over the country.