33 Replies Latest reply: Jul 16, 2012 5:16 AM by adw1983 RSS

    "Overpowered" Weapons

      i used to consider many guns in MW3 to be overpowered, like akimbo FMG-9s, the striker and type 95. however, i recently watched a video that does a good job of explaining otherwise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUxLrxx5QII&feature=plcp&context=C3e09583UDOEgsTo PDskLqyAgXcGy4Obh74LmC5beO

       

      the argument was furthur strengthened when i went back and played MW2 for a little while and used the skriker there. it behaves identicaly to the striker in MW3, yet i dont remember any complaints about it in MW2.

       

      Thoughts?

        • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

          Was it because the striker's OPness in mw2 was outclassed by the more OP-ness of the noob tubes?

          • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons
            vileself

            Awesome video. That guy made excellent points and Ive been saying this sinse CoD4 days, people complain because they died not because a weapon is overpowered. They'll blame it on the weapons because thats easier to do than blaming it on a personal fault.

             

            There really is no weapon in any CoD that I would truthfully concider overpowered. Some weapons may be a little more noob friendly or easier to use but in order for them to be overpowered you must be able to destroy anyone from any distance with minimal effort and thats just not the case.

             

            The Black Ops FAMAS was the closest gun to being overpowered in any CoD game and even that wasnt even that bad. There were 2-3 other guns that were statistically just as good such as the AUG and Stoner and if people want to complain about the FAMAS winning at close range against SMG thats because the SMGs could have used a buff. There were many including myself who hated the FAMAS merely because its rapid fire capabilities forced people to play like noobs, while the AK47 and Commando allowed players to play more professionally and shoot more accurately without wasting loads of ammo.

             

            Anyways, good video!

            • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

              I love that video because it hits the nail right on the head about the so called OP weapons in this game.

               

              There are no OP weapons in this game, just OP players using the weapon how it was can be used at its maxium effective capabilities.

                • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons
                  iamhollywood5

                  .......dear god....

                  • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                    Trialstar, did you really just say it was the player that was overpowered? Back in the Black Ops forum, we had these same arguments regarding weapons such as the Famas and Aug. I tried so hard to explain that you can't bring player skill into the argument for weapon balance because it is a random, highly variable factor.

                     

                     

                    Imagine two racecar drivers. One is a complete idiot of a driver who can't drive in a straight line, constantly runs off the road, and tends to fall asleep at the wheel. The other is an all pro, 5 time Cup Racing champion who could drive while juggling flaming bowling pins. In our hypothetical race, the first driver(hereafter called the idiot) get's a Ferarri with an autocorrecting computer system that drives the car for you and it can reach top speeds of 200 MPH. The second driver(hereafter called the Champ) gets an old car without any tires, a rusty doorknob for a steering wheel, and half of the engine itself is missing. The car can reach 3 mph with a favorable wind on its back.

                     

                    The two drivers decide to race on a mile long, straight track. If you haven't figured this out, the idiot wins the race. The Champ used his car at its max capabilities and actually managed to reach 4 mph. However, he lost. The idiot managed to drive in a mostly straight line with the car taking care of the small details and he made a top speed of 200 mph.

                     

                    By your logic, the idiot was overpowered because he used his car to its max capabilities, even though it was clearly the car which made him win the race. If the situation had been reversed, with the champ taking the good car, the outcome would have been far, far different. There is no amount of skill that could have made the bad car win the race, no matter how good the driver of it is.

                      • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons
                        adw1983

                        We can refine this a bit:

                         

                        Two equally skilled drivers get get their cars.
                        One, the ACR, drives faster, has greater acceleration and top speed and has much faster tire changes.
                        The other, the AK-47, has 3% more fuel -- but they're only going to change fuel twice in the race, and the ACR consumes less fuel to boot.


                        Acceleration = Recoil; Lower recoil is higher acceleration
                        Top speed = Effective chance of killing when firing fully automatic; Time to kill

                        Fuel = Range.
                        AK47 has a marginally greater range, but ACR is better when they both deal minimum damage.

                    • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                      lol. Closed the tab after realizing this is the same moron who said you'll get banned for Signing out/Dashboarding/XMB quit.

                      • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                        just watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC1JYokLqL8&NR=1&feature=endscreen

                         

                        and the description wich deal with the main issue of the problem of thoses overpowered weapons: " The Type 95 assault rifle akimbo FMG9 machine pistols are both extremely overpowered.  These are worse than the CoD4 M16, MW2 Famas, Black Ops Famas, or World at War MP40.  The Type 95 will kill a person in 0.06 seconds and the FMG9 will kill in 0.058 seconds.  Considering that this game can have 0.20 seconds of lag compensation, most people die before even knowing that they have been shot. There is no skill or way to react or dodge these weapons.  They must be patched."

                         

                        if we were all playing a LAN game with no lag compensation, ok maybe the skill can save us (maybe, because with the heal regeneration time down in MW3, we have to get use to be kill when in the others opus, skill can make us survive (straff jump, drop shot ect... ) ) but here, when every peaple with an average connection speed experiment the rage of "curving shot" when your really hide behind that wall just in time but your still dead. that's not possible!

                         

                        I think theses weapons should just be remove from the game (i talk about the fmg, I don't care about striker, just give me back the same spas-12 than in MW2 and I'm cool ). there is a lot of weapons with easy access for a begginer in the game. no nead of laser death ray. because there will always be guys with high skill and experience who using this begginers weapons (or cheated weapons, how can you increase your skill when you take the habit of use that?) to make big scores, but when you want to play a fair game (no martyr, death hand, 2nd chance,no rpg or grenades launchers, you know what I mean...) and your in front of 3 or 4 guys who use fmgs (don't say take your distance, the maps in MW3 are at least "arenas" and fmg kill from very far in akimbo ) you have no chances to have fun. your at the mercy of thoses "big ratios brainless guys"

                         

                        ps: sorry if my english is a no-sense, but I'm french

                        • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                          Bullshit. This guy said that Type-95 is a challenge to use without ADS. I never, NEVER ADS with Type-95. It's too good without ADS.

                           

                          And also, it's 3 round burst, with 1 shot dealing 55 damage maximum. Holy ****, more than a half of maximum health with one bullet! And you can slap Rapid Fire on it? What the ****? The highest maximum damage non semi-auto weapon and you have Rapid Fire avaliable? This is just ridiculous!

                           

                          I remember my first time I picked up the Type-95. Here's a list of what I got:

                          Mastodon

                          Highlander

                          My first 17 killstreak in Modern Warfare 3

                           

                          All of those I've got in 5 minutes, I joined a game in progress.

                           

                          I used FAMAS in MW2 a lot. It was fine. Never killed anyone with 2 bullets. Even with Stopping Power.

                          • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                            I think that PP90M1, ACR 6.8, FMG9 Akimbos, Usas-12 and Striker are SOO overpowered. Atleast PP90 with rapid fire and ACR with kick and silencer.

                            • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                              I think that PP90M1, ACR 6.8, FMG9 Akimbos, Usas-12 and Striker are SOO overpowered. Atleast PP90 with rapid fire and ACR with kick and silencer.

                                • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                                  USAS is far from OP. You have to rank it up before its worth a damn so don't be mad because you can't rank shotguns up. It takes skill to do such a thing and that's why you don't see to many people using them. Same goes for the striker. It's just a higher ROF and thats it. People are gonna have to except the fact that all weapons can't be the same. If you are getting out gunned by a shotty while using an AR or SMG, you need to figure out what you are doing wrong.

                                • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons
                                  adw1983

                                  Wow...

                                  Here we go again...


                                  Overpowered weapons:

                                   

                                  Type-95
                                  PP90-M1
                                  MP7
                                  FMG9


                                  ...

                                  Type 95 kills faster than ACR even if you miss with your first 6 bullets for both weapons.
                                  PP90-M1 is the only SMG worth using apart from MP7 or the PM-9 if you manage to use it properly.

                                  Yes, you can use UMP, P90 and MP5 -- but you will only be at an advantage versus assault-rifle users and quickscopers:
                                  PP90-M1 will **** you if the user of said weapon is nearly as good as you are.

                                   

                                  Let's write down the stats, shall we?

                                   

                                  Type 95: High damage, high rate of fire, high range, low long range damage -- burst fire disadvantage
                                  M16: Medium damage, medium rate of fire, high range, medium long range damage -- burst fire disadvantage

                                  ACR: Medium damage, medium rate of fire, medium-high range, medium-high long range damage


                                  PP90M1: Medium damage, medium recoil, high rate of fire, medium range, very low long range damage
                                  MP5: Medium damage, high recoil, medium rate of fire, medium range, low long range damage

                                  FMG9: Medium damage, medium-high recoil, high rate of fire, medium-low range, low long range damage

                                   

                                   

                                  Unbalanced weapons:

                                  P90 --> Strictly better than MP5 and UMP
                                  ACR --> Strictly better than AK47 and CM901, which only have an insignificant range advantage

                                   

                                  Underpowered weapons:
                                  MP5 --> Strictly inferior to most SMGs
                                  CM901 --> Strictly inferior to most ARs

                                  AK47 --> Strictly inferior to most ARs
                                  M16 --> Strictly inferior to Type 95; Type 95 is better up to ~45 meters, where M16 continues killing in four hits while the Type 95 starts needing 5.

                                  • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                                    A good player will beat a noob with any gun but a noob wont beat a good player even with a so called op.

                                     

                                    I play forza and can set top 50-100 times in the world.

                                    If I use a non lb car and do a top 100 time usually within a few days people are copying my car build. Thinking they will drive it as fast as me.

                                     

                                    That's how cod is its full of people who think if they use the same gun maybe with same attachments they will be as good as the people they copy off.

                                    They try other peoples class settups  usually they don't improve so they call people noobs and blame op weapons lol

                                     

                                    And the type 95 is not op it's tricky to use.

                                    Everyone cries about the type95 yet it's a rear gun to find in lobbies lol

                                    Because its unreliable up close.

                                    And takesa good aim and strategic play to do good with.

                                      • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons
                                        adw1983

                                        So.

                                         

                                        You beat someone who is 75% as good as you with a weapon that performs 50% as good as good as his?

                                         

                                        No.

                                         

                                        Balance is all about the ideal games where you play against people of equal or similar skill level -- something which we have not seen much of at all in the Call of Duty series.

                                         

                                        ...

                                        The fact that most players suck does NOT change the FACT that some weapons are MUCH more powerful -- have much more potential -- than other weapons in the same class..
                                        With a weapon dealing 0 damage, you'd lose every encounter you couldn't knife in.


                                        With a weapon dealing 10 damage with a low rate of fire, you'd lose almost every encounter you couldn't dodge and trick your way out of.


                                        Skill ONLY funnels the existing parameters in your favor:
                                        You are useless by yourself, and you simply make good use of your weapon.

                                         

                                        The problem is:
                                        WHEN you use an AK47 and win against someone using the Type 95 -- you did not win because you were more skilled, but because he was NOT skilled.

                                        For you to win, HE has to have failed to aim OR fire at you in a timely manner.

                                         

                                        Think about that FACT for a moment:
                                        Any encounter you win versus Type 95 with an AK47, you ONLY survived because HE screwed up.


                                        Now imagine a good player with a Type 95.
                                        You cannot win by doing everything PERFECTLY -- you RELY on him screwing up.

                                         

                                        Relying on others to fail is not a very good strategy, and is the reason I advocate weapon balance.

                                          • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                                            Most kills are due to a failure or lack of skill by the enemy. Most of the time I kill people who are not focused on me. Or who I have the jump on that's how cod goes. My point is cod comes down to better players not better guns.

                                             

                                            You give the best guy in cod a type 95 he will **** your team

                                            Now give him the ak he will still **** your team.

                                             

                                            Because he's a better more skilled more aware player

                                             

                                            If you give 1 good guy the type95 and another good guy the ump it will still come down to who has more skill who can keep there enemy at the correct distance and out smart and out play them.

                                             

                                            Guns can help a bit but  better players win

                                            • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                                              Also I used to watch some guy on YouTube called onlyusemeblade he only stabbed people.

                                              That's playing really smart and shows if your clever and aware then you can win with anything. And if he's killing people with no gun lol never mind an op gun then it proves that it's the person behind the weapon.

                                              Not the weapon itself that's op

                                                • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons
                                                  vims1990

                                                  Screwyounoob wrote:

                                                   

                                                  Also I used to watch some guy on YouTube called onlyusemeblade he only stabbed people.

                                                  That's playing really smart and shows if your clever and aware then you can win with anything. And if he's killing people with no gun lol never mind an op gun then it proves that it's the person behind the weapon.

                                                  Not the weapon itself that's op

                                                   

                                                  You realise a majority of these YouTubers post only their best gameplays.

                                                   

                                                  Kids idolize these YouTubers as god-like players but never know what happens behind the scenes when it comes consistency. They constantly leave matches that aren't YouTube worthy just so they get one decent gameplay & make the"YouTube money"

                                                   

                                                  Someone like OnlyUseMeBlade may post some amazing gameplays but that's one out of 10-20 possible games.

                                                    • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                                                      I do realise that lol

                                                      Point is it still happened he still out smarted the lobby and done them with the most under powered weapon in the lobby.

                                                       

                                                      Anyway I'm done with this as its stupid my point and belief is its players who are op and make guns look good.

                                                       

                                                      Guns don't make you good at cod your brain does.

                                                       

                                                      All pros use the acr ect  1 kills the other, he killed him because he was better or had the jump on him. not because he used an acr lol

                                                      Now the player who killed the guy would of done so with a non op gun that's my view anyway.

                                                       

                                                      There's always a better person than you out there .

                                              • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons
                                                stayfrosty70

                                                OVERPOWERED !!! Its not the guns . WE are !!!!

                                                • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons
                                                  half-megatron

                                                  Today is July 15, give the Op talk a rest. The game has been out for 8 months

                                                  • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons
                                                    adw1983

                                                    My god..!

                                                     

                                                    The world is NOT black and white.


                                                    SOME players are of a similar skill level.


                                                    Bad players are of similar skill level.

                                                     

                                                    If one bad player use the AK47 and another the ACR -- the guy using the ACR will win more.

                                                     

                                                    If two good players are up against eachother, and one use the CM901 and the other Type 95 -- the guy using the Type 95 has a MASSIVE advantage.
                                                    Simply using ACR or even G36C gives you a huge advantage over AK47 or CM901.

                                                     

                                                    Yes.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    By all means, a good player using an AK47 will win against bad players.
                                                    He will struggle against decent players.
                                                    He will lose against smart players that aren't as skilled as himself.

                                                    He will be raped in the butt by players that are as good as himself.

                                                     

                                                    I don't want weapons to be the same.

                                                    I just want justice -- balance.


                                                    IF a weapon fires much slower than another and has worse damage, than another weapon it needs something to make up for it.

                                                    Rate of fire:
                                                    ACR > AK47 > CM901

                                                     

                                                    Recoil:
                                                    ACR > AK47 > CM901

                                                     

                                                    Short range damage:

                                                    ACR ~= AK47 = CM901

                                                     

                                                    Long range damage
                                                    ACR > AK47 = CM901
                                                    (ACR always kills in one hit in hardcore, and kills in one hit less on long range with one headshot -- unlike the other rifles)

                                                     

                                                    Reload ******* times:
                                                    ACR > CM901 > AK47


                                                    WHY?

                                                    Why doesn't the AK47 and CM901 have higher damage on long range OR considerably much longer range -- like 60 meters before they need four hits to kill?
                                                    Why doesn't the ACR have a meaningful lower damage on short range?

                                                     

                                                    ...

                                                     

                                                    Then let's compare MP5 with MP7:

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Rate of fire:
                                                    MP7 > MP5


                                                    Damage:
                                                    MP7 ~= MP5

                                                     

                                                    Recoil:
                                                    MP7 >>>> MP5

                                                     

                                                    Magazine ******* size:

                                                    MP7 > MP5

                                                     

                                                    Reload times:

                                                    MP5 > MP7

                                                    ...

                                                     

                                                    How about UMP vs PP90M1?

                                                    Damage: Same
                                                    Rate of fire: PP90M1 is miles better

                                                    Recoil: Impossible to tell any difference
                                                    PP90M1 has a massive magazine to boot.

                                                      • Re: "Overpowered" Weapons

                                                        If could not agree with you more adw.

                                                         

                                                        Some people refuse to see that skill and usually lag do not change whether one gun is better then other. There isn't some kind of unlock a skilled players gets that changes the stats on a bad weapon to make it better the others. Whatever you can do with a MP5 you can do better with a P90. Whatever you can do with a AK47 and CM901 you can do better with an ACR. Whatever you can do with a PKP you can do better with a L86. This is the concept of balance and unbalance. There should be no weapons that are completely better than another or better than another period. When you have unbalance you decrease the games gun variety and shorten its life span.