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        50. Re: Debate: Do Campers Really Exist?

        cause its a close cqc map u dont have to run across the map to find the enmy and kill him

        Last Edited: Mar 8, 2013 12:19 PM
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          51. Re: Debate: Do Campers Really Exist?

          Seems like Raid isn't that much bigger than Hijacked.


          Hijacked is a good example of what COD maps are usually like... A cluster **** of narrow alleys and predictable spawns...


          Raid is what maps should be like... Circular and open with many cover spots and directions to flank.

          Last Edited: Mar 8, 2013 12:24 PM
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            52. Re: Debate: Do Campers Really Exist?

            I'd always heard the term, and I think it's really a faulty label at this point.


            There's smart playing, and poor playing.


            Lets use an example. I played on Plaza a few weeks ago, and two master prestiges were on the opposing team. The first game they had 7 or less kills and no deaths. I thought that was weird, so I checked their records after the match and both had dropped from their last 4 games with no kills/deaths. So I know they lobby jump to keep their KDR's high.


            The next game, again, they finish 7-0 and 6-1 resepectively. I was holding position on the roof. Many would say I was camping. I was holding position, picking off stragglers, making callouts, the whole 9-yards. I ended the game 14-2. To the untrained eye I would be camping, but many already know I was playing a key role on our team playing with a visible field of about 40% of the map and picking up kills if/when spawns swap.


            The bottom line is that their combined record was 13-1, and mine was 14-2. In the end I was twice as productive as they were. I was tempted to turn my microphone to illuminate them about this, but it would've been a waste of time. My team won both games because of smart gameplay and production. In TDM, you have to get 14 kills to pull your weight. Both of those players were not pulling their weight. They had great records, and if there was twice as many of them they would've won.


            However, if we reach 75 kills first, we win, and we did. After the next few games they dropped from the lobby, as I played rushing and their deaths were getting too close to their kills, and to preserve their KDR's they left.


            What we think of as campers are really people who are low producers. If you're a high producer, I don't care what you're doing, you're winning. The enemy needs to change strategy, improve their skills or stop feeding the opposing team.


            Remember, there is no spoon...

            Last Edited: Mar 8, 2013 12:25 PM
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              53. Re: Debate: Do Campers Really Exist?

              TheBeastlyDude wrote:


              BlackhawkbillOO7 wrote:


              Well, then based on the lack of differentiation I say that Campers can and do exist even when challenged by opposing teams with effective communication skills. I have 4 Campers that play on my team almost every evening and they have very respectable KD's and win percentages all obtained while Defending/Camping. 

              Even if the opposite team has mics, it doesn't mean they have effective communication skills. Had they had good communication skills, the campers on your team would have problems because the other team would know where they were.


              If effective communication skills are that of being able to effectively call out a location to a fellow team member where you were shot and where the Camper was located, then I can without any uncertainty, say we have played against teams and clans that were able to communicate effectively. Now, whether or not they possessed the experience or skill necessary to neutralize my defenders/campers is a completely different matter and different thread.


              Your question was "

              whether enemy campers can exist if there was actual teamwork on your team?"


              My Clan is made of of about 80% prior service and we understand the importance of shoot, move, and communicate. We have lost matches to teams that were able to put up a strong defenses and no matter what we threw at them we were unable to get their flag. At the same time we have been able to defend our flag against full teams and clans so much so that they left the match.


              In my opinion I can unequivocally say YES, Campers can and do exist.


              Is any one single playing style invincible? No. Is there a counter to every encounter? Sure.

              Last Edited: Mar 8, 2013 12:46 PM
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                54. Re: Debate: Do Campers Really Exist?

                BlackawkbillOO7, Thank you for the well thought out post. I almost changed my opinion due to your reasoning. I have run into similar situations where you just can't do anything but I feel a lot of it was due to lag instead of our ability to work together as a team. Do you feel the same way, as in if there was no lag, you could have handled that team?

                Last Edited: Mar 8, 2013 12:53 PM
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                  55. Re: Debate: Do Campers Really Exist?

                  Lag or the gentler term I use "Connection Issue" will always be a factor. I've lost matches knowing that we were the better team but didn't have the connection on our side. At the same time we have beat some better teams because we were on the good side of the connection. Unfortunately, this game does not have the connection consistency that I have been accustom to in previous COD Titles.


                  I would also like to add that a well thought out defense is just as good or better than a well thought out offense. In almost any battle the defender will have an advantage over the aggressor. A good defense has interlacing fields of fire. Redundant setups so if someone goes down the other guy can cover with equal power. The aggressor is always moving towards a potential ambush site or kill area. The defender most of the time can see the aggressor before he or she sees them. But with that being said, given enough time and attrition even a great defense can be worn down and beaten.

                  Last Edited: Mar 8, 2013 1:16 PM
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                    56. Re: Debate: Do Campers Really Exist?

                    Apparently everyone is a camper in this game.  In reality though,  there are very few campers.  Most use it as an excuse when they get killed. 

                    Last Edited: Mar 8, 2013 2:38 PM
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                      57. Re: Debate: Do Campers Really Exist?

                      yeah campers do make excuses when you kill them best part is when you make them rage quit

                      Last Edited: Mar 8, 2013 2:45 PM
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                        58. Re: Debate: Do Campers Really Exist?

                        Another thread about camping... *sigh*



                        Last Edited: Mar 8, 2013 5:41 PM
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                          59. Re: Debate: Do Campers Really Exist?

                          The difficulty is we associate 'camping' with 'defense'. I still think camping is a negative (pajorative) online term for someone who concerns only himself and holes up in a highly defensive position in an attempt to draw opposing players so much into his defensive element that the individual makes up for a large lack of diverse skill by focusing on a very very low skill area, with high control.


                          What your discussing is good tactics. Using a defensive position like a building, using tactics and communication is purely good gameplay.


                          These situations are not immune to opposing tactics. The problem with this style of game is that it is fast paced.


                          Another example. Just last night on solo I played against a team that had 3 teamed players, and they were able to communicate to the other players on their team to simply follow their lead. We were on Hijacked and they immediately went under the ship and holed up there specifically, with two shield guys on both ends and gunners inside.


                          Before they had good communication going, I was able to consistently run behind their lines and jump them from behind. A reason why in this second match they had two shield players. We pulled ahead while there was chaos and confusion, but they had settled under the boat and my team kept jumping down into the traps.


                          If our team had any real communication, we would accumulated lethal grenades and pumped the bottom full of explosives via the vent. This would have been possible because they were so defensive we could've run the clock in our favour. This simply isn't the case in pretty much every game. Their defense was iron clad, but every defense is easy to take advantage of. The problem is the speed of the game never allows for it, it required real communication and time to execute.


                          In objective modes, points are gained from those objectives for winning the game, forcing pressure on teams to simply make do with what they have quickly. In this, the defensive team (when skills are mostly balanced) will always have the edge.

                          Last Edited: Mar 8, 2013 5:47 PM
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