I really don’t understand your hostility. I’m a pretty decent guy I think. I don’t talk trash to anyone on the forums and I try to be helpful to other users any time I can. Why do you want to call me names because I enjoy using snipers in a videogame? I don’t mind if you have a different opinion to me and want to debate that – that’s one of the beauties of freedom of expression, but how about you do it in a civil way. Good manners cost nothing my friend.
As it happens, I’m actually subscribed to Thunder’s channel and support his vids all the time. I quite enjoy them, even if I do have a different opinion about snipers.
It’s important to remember that what we are talking about are 2 differing opinions based on our own experiences. I try to be objective in my opinions, though my subjective experience has to play a part too. I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong, just what I believe to be true based on my own playing experience, which is thousands of hours MP since CoD 2 and looking at statistical game data in relation to weapon performance.
So let’s discuss the snipers. First what we agree on – chrome barrel. I don’t think it’s needed and I certainly don’t believe snipers should be able to get OHKs anywhere below the waist on a player at 100 health. I think that’s ridiculous personally and I posted quite a bit about this before the game came out. I also said that the faster the sniper handled the more precision it should require, like how the Ballista had a much smaller OHK region than the DSR.
Okay, where we disagree is that the sniper has no limitations. I can think of a few off the top of my head.
Slow ADS – the only thing slower would be an LMG, though not by much.
Slow fire rate – the slowest in the game
Must remain still while firing – no other weapon has this problem
No aim-assist pre-ADS - not a big disadvantage from the point of view of using your weapon, but makes a big difference when trying to melee.
Least margin for error – You miss that first shot and you are generally toast. While you might get away with having 20% accuracy with an SMG or AR, if you have <50% with a sniper you’re probably going to be doing pretty poorly.
Least effective in CQB – now this is where the big debate starts – Quickscoping. There are many people like yourself who believe this somehow gives snipers an advantage in CQB. My own personal experience playing and actually looking at the numbers makes me believe differently. Here’s why:
The fastest a sniper can kill is in about 0.12 seconds. This is the TTK from the point of pulling the trigger. Most ARs and SMGs kill in about 0.15 seconds on average, though the MSBS kills faster than any gun in the game at close range. Now these numbers don’t take into account ADS times. A sniper with quickdraw will ADS in 0.3 seconds, combined with the above number the absolute quickest a quickscope can kill you is in 0.42 seconds. An AR with quickdraw will ADS in 0.2 seconds and an SMG in about 0.1 seconds. Combining those numbers with their respective TTK means that they both would still kill faster in close range than a quickscoper.
However, SMG and AR users can negate the ADS time factor by using stalker, which will allow them to move around quickly while ADS. It’s not really necessary with SMGs since they kind of have it built in, but for ARs and LMGs and even MRs it makes it super easy to navigate the map while ADS and swings the tactical advantage right in their favour when engaging a quickscoper at close range.
Inside their effective ranges all other guns have the potential to kill faster than a quickscoper. If they lose out it can only be due to some other determining factor, such as inaccurate aim, rushing blindly and being caught off guard, having sufficiently slower reaction times, or the curse of lag comp.
I don’t just quickscope, I really just use it as a tool when pulling my sidearm isn’t going to cut it and I use all the other classes of weapons quite a bit (all gold camos in MW3 and all diamond camos in BO2). I’ve also stated many times that I used to hate quickscoping until I actually tried to do it myself and realised it was not what I thought it was (which was some sort of unfair cheat/glitch). I know that I can do much better with an AR or SMG than I can with a sniper if I’m rushing. They’re always at the bottom of my gun stats when it comes to KD (USR KD 1.21, VEPR 2.55, SA-805 2.01). So from my point of view, the snipers don’t seem OP at all. I can understand annoying (heck I’ve been there) but not OP.
you make a valid point on move and fire until you factor in thermal scope stalker or acog and then we're back to the one shot kill machines that literally plague this franchise. the items and equipment and perks take these sniper rifles to a whole new level of troll and that ain't cool.
the amount of tdm games now in ghosts where i run into four or more t*ssers that run round the map like john rambo with their thermal usr quick scoping and hardscoping at lightning speed is A: tragic and B: pathetic
all you have to accept is that the options and items make these snipers OP, they have no place in COD, if you want to snipe go play battlefield. they need massive hits on their ADS time, they are a long range weapon END OF.
PS I snipe and my class list is as follows out of choice too not to be a troll or douchebag
L118, silencer & armour piercing, i then use the second primary perk and take that silenced sub as i do not expect nor feel i should be able to get into a fire fight at close range and win.
i then take some stealth perks and use ammo crate, vests and oracle
i then move stealthily around the map using an appropriate weapon to engage in fire fights when needed then i setup in a good vantage point and pick off enemy snipers and others silly enough to break cover at range. after a few kills i start putting out ammo and protection for me and my team then when my oracle goes up i get a heads up on targets for more kills as do my team.
my position remains undefended as i don't use ied's etc to camp and my support steaks can give me away to players with smarts using sitrep. i do not expect to have it all and don't feel the need to be an abusive or troll like player
the stuff snipers need to not behave like degenerates is there they and by the sounds of it you, choose to want everything and then a bit more. QS snipers deserve all the hate they get as they choose to take part in behavior which receives warranted hatred. my argument stands, every other weapon group has limitations, snipers don't
i'm sure you are a lovely human being but from now adjust your class, don't quick scope and carry a second primary as a backup. snipers don't get to be cqb beasts and just because you can be a nasty little troll doesn't me you should
it actually makes for a more rewarding play style as you literally always have the right tool for the job.
I really have "no comment" on the issue. If IW feels the need to nerf, then nerf.
See first, shoot first, whatever. The player that walks away from the gunfight should be the one with the fastest reaction time higher accuracy, regardless of what weapon, attachments or perks being used.
We are all in the same boat. There is nothing in the enemies arsenal that is any different then what I am able to choose myself.
I need to correct you on the ARs they aren't balanced all rounders they are insta-kill all rounders. They out gun all guns at all ranges and they are insta-kills at all ranges and they have no recoil and they are 2 to 3 shot kill and they have fast fire rates. They can out gun smgs up close and the snipers from a long range so they aren't balanced all rounders they are masters of all ranges which is overpowered.
I personally don't think the Acog/Stalker is a particularly effective combination, with the wobbly scope (only class of weapon where the acog has sway, which cannot be steadied) and sliding around the map. I tried it in MW3 and it was more of a novelty than a very effective class. I've only come across 2-3 people using a sniper with an Acog so far, but none using Stalker. The thermal doesn't really make any significant difference to the effectiveness of a sniper. Its a much better attachment on an AR since you get that increased range, but then you can flip the scope down to a red dot and be just as effective in close quarters.
You are free, as I said, to have whatever opinion on the snipers you want, but just because you think they are OP doesn't make it true and definitely does not mean I have to accept it. My experience of doing it and the relatively increased level of difficulty it presents for me over using any other weapon leads me to disagree with you. For me it's an increased challenge and I find that more rewarding that running around with guns that I can shred people easily with.
You and everyone else are free to play the game however you like and I won't criticise you or anyone else, whether it bugs me personally or not, I've been a part of this community since the very first game, so I won't have anyone telling me how I should or should not play the game. If the devs put something in the game and I want to use it, I'll use it unapologetically.
You say you don't feel the need to be an abusive troll of a player, but why don't you have any trouble being abusive or disparaging in your posts? - calling people mongs, t*ssers, pathetic, degenerates and talking about how they deserve to be hated. Seriously? It's only a video game and to have such a negative, hate-filled attitude over the way someone wants to play that game to me is pretty sad and disappointing to see
that's every gun in this game, they are all pretty OP but they only appear worse due to lag and or good hit detection.
the times to kill are very silly across the board but previous titles have been high time to kill, mw3 and bo2 had bad hi detection hence a lot of people feel this game is very extreme
its a turn in kind, people that act like douches in game get me treating them like douches on here.
treat others as you expect to be treated. i'm reacting to a play style which from the look of today's threads is something that everyone is just as sick of as all previous titles
catch me in another thread on a less galling topic and i'll be as nice as pie.
QS has no place in a competitive online shooter hence why no other franchise has it
Treat others as you expect to be treated is a phrase that encourages you to treat people how you would want to be treated yourself. Give respect to get respect. The more mature and tolerant person should rise above such pettiness. I mean, a large portion of these people are just kids. Now whether they should be playing a game like that is a whole other topic of discussion and not one I'm interested in having - that's a decision for their parents.
I'm not sure what your rationale is for saying it has no place in a competitive shooter - most competitive CoD games take place under MLG rules and it's never been banned. The biggest influence in the competitive shooter space have no issue with it at all, though most of the competitive players tend to favour SMGs and ARs over running around with a bolt action. If QS was so OP then why does nobody do it when there is hundreds and thousands of dollars on the line in competitive tournaments?. CoD is also not the only game where you can quickscope - before CoD there was Counter Strike and even right now there is BF4.
There's no doubt that there are plenty of people sick of quickscoping - but there are millions who are very interested in being able to do it and probably plenty of people who don't really care either way. I think it could be a good idea to create a no-sniper playlist, with a moshpit of some of the more popular modes and that might give some indication of just how many people don't want to play against QSers.
If you were asked how to make it possible to include quickscoping in the game, but make it "balanced" so that anti-quickscopers would be able to tolerate it, what would you suggest?