21 Replies Latest reply: Jan 15, 2014 1:02 PM by TheBeastlyDude RSS

    Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?

    TheBeastlyDude

      I am a red-blooded American and like a lot of Americans, I love my football (not soccer for anyone outside of the U.S.A.). This weekend, for the AFC Championship, Tom Brady and The New England Patriots are facing Peyton Manning and The Denver Broncos. Anytime Brady and Manning face each other, there is always talks about which quarterback is better between the two, or who would you rather on your team.

       

      Both quarterbacks are great, even legendary in a lot of opinions. However, the biggest difference between the two is the number of championships each has. Tom Brady has 3 championships while Peyton only has 1 and because of that, a lot of people prefer Tom Brady on their team instead of Peyton Manning.

       

      What does this have to do with Call of Duty?

       

      More and more, it feels players are moving away from wanting to win on COD to just wanting to look good.

       

      Reasoning behind this:

      - Those who mod the game do so to make it look like they are better than they truly are and having to cheat, it just shows they are losers inside.

      -When people see that they are facing a clan, no matter how good the clan is or how bad, they leave. What ever happened to welcoming the challenge?

      - If a team loses, they are usually quick to point out if the winning team has a low overall score or KDR.

      -The lack of wanting to change playstyles to acheive a win, such as a camper camping a low traffic area away from objectives.

       

      I heard from an NFL analysis that stats mean nothing if you never win. You can have the most OMGWTFBBQ SPM and KDR but what is the point if you never win?

        • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
          phxs72

          I'd say that it's more a matter of what do you value.  I'm with you that winning is more important to me than stats which is why I have the stats that I do.  If I cared about stats above all else I could easily have stats that would make a lot of weaker players run in fear.  But I could care less about my stats.  I'm all about the win.  If that means dying one off a Loki to get that flag cap that brings the win home then so be it.  For others though (and I don't understand it), the mighty stat is the only thing that matters to them.  Obviously not all of them matter or they would be concerned about their win % but they do seem to have built their identity around being the high kd guy.  These guys are easy to find because they make a point of telling you how "great" they are and how "garbage" you must be for having even a 0.01 lower kd than they have.  Honestly, I have to wonder why their self-esteems are so low in the real world that some status on a video game that no one will even look at next year means so much to them.  I'd say that it's a sad commentary on the world that we live in today.  In my day you either won or you lost.  The goal was to win plain and simple.  There was no bragging rights for being statistically great but coming in 2nd.  That is why I like what Ghosts has done with the clan wars.  It doesn't matter if your clan has a 3 kd or a 0.5 kd.  The only thing that matters is your wins.  I know some don't like this setup but I for one think that the children of today need to be more win focused.  Winning builds self esteem.  It always has and always will.

            • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
              TheBeastlyDude

              We think a lot alike. I don't know when winning ended up so downplayed in today's society or why a lot of people don't care if they win. I couldn't imagine playing a game without the sheer focus of winning. Growing up, I didn't play Sonic the Hedgehog to run around on a game for fun, I played to win. I never played any Madden game just to see if I can play a whole game using only run plays. I've never played Poker to see if I can get the Ace of Spades card in my hand.

            • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
              poss911

                If this was something that had a real life reward then I would take it more seriously. Personally I play this game for my own personal reasons. Do I like to win or look good? I prefer to win. If I look good while doing it, all the better. I am over forty years old and stopped worrying about what others think along time ago. Unfortunately a lot of people in the COD community haven't gone through this feeling yet.

              -Cheaters/ modders; I can't agree with you more. They take the fun out of a game.

              -Clans; I appreciate a good clan. Do I enjoy going against them? Only if I am playing with my son and his friends. Then it is a good/fun match. If I am playing the game solo then I will limit it to less than 3 clan members. Otherwise I will back out out. I can appreciate a challenge but it's not much challenge when a full clan locks down an area and the team I am on does nothing to help each other due to lack of communication. Don't get me wrong I don't hate the clans at all. I just wish more clans would compete against other clans, hence clan wars.

              -Losing teams who are mouthy. People just need to accept that they are playing a game. This is supposed to be fun and enjoyment for you. Nothing in this game is going to effect you in the Real World. People just need to learn that yes there are people better than you. There always will be. You can't and will not win everything in your life. If anything you will lose more than win in life. I say again, this is a game.

              -Lack of playstyles. I agree with you 100%. If I am struggling in a match then I switch up weapon loadouts and style. It may not always work but hey, do I get an E for effort for trying? Lol.

              -As for what's the point if you don't win. What's the point to all of this? It's a game. Last I checked everyone who plays this game has either bought it for themselves or has been given the game as a gift or for whatever reason. People who try and tell people how they should play this game need to just stop telling everyone how they want everyone else how to play unless they are willing to buy the game for everybody who wishes to play it. I bought this game for my own amusement not yours or anyone else's. Not to sound mean about it just stating a fact.

                Like I said earlier, if this effected my life and I saw great reward from making sure I was the best and won everytime, I would put a ton more effort into this game. Being that it is just that, a game. I just plug along, try to win, if I look great..awesome and enjoy  the time spent playing this or any other game. Peace!!

                • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
                  TheBeastlyDude

                  Thanks for the response. I suppose I should have been more precise in presenting my argument. I never meant this as a slam against the casual player who plays for their own reasons, such as yourself, it was meant more of a slam against those who think stats make a player good.

                   

                  Players like you are a majority of the COD players and most are decent human beings. It's those who are loudmouth, bragging about their stats after they lose the game, or whine about facing a clan on a team-based game. I am trying to challenge them to go for wins instead of stats.

                   

                  Good luck to you in the game and I hope more people, those who just play to have fun, start to point out to those who brag about stats that stats mean nothing if they never win.

                • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
                  veilofmaya

                  I leave because no matter how good I am, we're still gonna lose because my teammates ******* suck.

                  • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
                    MrZombieClowns

                    Winning became less important when they started giving ribbons and trophies for participation.

                     

                    I'm a random team player most often placed against clans. A win is a win, I don't care if it's the entire match my team wins, or the small victories placed through-out the match. Of course I play to win, but I can only do what I can do.

                    • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
                      sennalike

                      Excellent thread.

                       

                      I totally agree with what's been said above, and can't really add much.

                       

                      To me the purpose of any form of competition, which CoD is, is to come out victorious. Yes it's a game, but that should just mean losing isn't the end of the world. Winning also will not bring you unimaginable riches! but it will make you feel good in the short term. There is nothing better in CoD than a close fought match where you come out winning by a small margin. To me that wouldn't be the same if I had used a hack or cheated in any other way.

                       

                      I don't understand the importance people place on their stats. I was in a HC Dom match earlier, which we lost. The scoreboard showed the top two players on my team with over 50 kills each, way fewer deaths, but 0 caps. The top player on the enemy team was the same. Three out of the twelve players had no interest in winning the match, just wanted to boost their KDR. That seems to happen a lot. It's not the game or developers fault, it's the mentality of the players. So it wont stop, because it's all about 'what your peers think'. They see you with a 3 KDR and think you must be great. Then they play with you and see you're actually not. But you make an excuse and all moves on. Kind of pointless, but it's the way it is.

                       

                      I'm like you guys, mid forties, really don't care about my stats, other than for me to self assess my performance. It means nothing to anyone else unless they have watched every match I have played. I guess the obsession with 'looking' good is a youth or generation thing. I probably would have cared more in my teens and twenties.

                      • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
                        MysteriousDeeds

                        Good post. I'm all in for the win any day. To me it's more gratifying than any stat. Unfortunately, like others have said most times it becomes secondary when playing COD with some people. In this age of bragging, boasting, and self-gratification most of the kids today look more at individual stats than anything else. The stats become there be all end all, proof to everyone that they are as great as they claim they are. There is no greater feeling, when playing, than going toe to toe with an opposing team and squeaking that win out in a competitive match. Beats a high KD any day.

                        • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
                          Izjar11

                          TheBeastlyDude wrote:

                           

                           

                          More and more, it feels players are moving away from wanting to win on COD to just wanting to look good.

                           

                          Reasoning behind this:

                          - Those who mod the game do so to make it look like they are better than they truly are and having to cheat, it just shows they are losers inside.

                          -When people see that they are facing a clan, no matter how good the clan is or how bad, they leave. What ever happened to welcoming the challenge?

                          - If a team loses, they are usually quick to point out if the winning team has a low overall score or KDR.

                          -The lack of wanting to change playstyles to acheive a win, such as a camper camping a low traffic area away from objectives.

                           

                          I

                          interesting points.

                           

                          Winning to some really doesnt matter, they want the new patch, the new headgear, the new camo, the new what ever and they could care less about the win. Truthfully, not everyone will play this game with that level of care, yet they play. I do not like to lose, so I am a player who will always go for the win. The win is where I get my fun.

                            • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
                              TheBeastlyDude

                              You kinda missed the point. This thread isn't about those who go for patches and whatnot and I have no problem with that. But if you're going to sit there and brag about your stats but you're not winning, it's time to call them out on it. Like I said, you can have the best stats but if you're not winning, then what do those stats actually mean.

                                • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
                                  Izjar11

                                  TheBeastlyDude wrote:

                                   

                                  You kinda missed the point. This thread isn't about those who go for patches and whatnot and I have no problem with that. But if you're going to sit there and brag about your stats but you're not winning, it's time to call them out on it. Like I said, you can have the best stats but if you're not winning, then what do those stats actually mean.

                                  I didn't miss the point, I just added that some players probably want the patches and looks (as you call it "look good") than winning, just a thought.

                                   

                                  One can only speculate to why players not try to win, but its out there. Yesterday, I played a game of Dom. I (literally) was the only one capturing the flags, I was dumbfounded why others would walk by me even when not being attacked. But this is COD and players will do as they wish.

                                    • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
                                      TheBeastlyDude

                                      I am mistaken, you are right. I didn't think really as getting patches to look good as it is to accomplish the challenge. The only thing I can think of is that at least with challenges, you are gaining something in game, whereas if you are only going for KDR or SPM, you don't receive anything in game.

                                        • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
                                          Izjar11

                                          TheBeastlyDude wrote:

                                           

                                          I am mistaken, you are right. I didn't think really as getting patches to look good as it is to accomplish the challenge. The only thing I can think of is that at least with challenges, you are gaining something in game, whereas if you are only going for KDR or SPM, you don't receive anything in game.

                                          Were you around when Elite started in MW3? Many clans would deny entry to players who didn't have a certain KD above soso. That created allot of players who "needed" to "improve" their stats at the expense of taking a loss. Those days were filled with non objective playing COD players. With these new clan wars, i can see it happening again, clans subjecting rules upon entry and requirements.

                                            • Re: Can you still be great and a loser at the same time?
                                              TheBeastlyDude

                                              Oh yeah, I remember that. That was a ton of fun. I was there for that and every once in a while, I would reply to them and ask if a good KDR helped them win games and none of them could give intelligible answers. I think the COD community, as a whole, needs to try to focus on actually winning rather than what their stats look like. I remember the arguments about how stats can be inflated to make yourself look good which is why I never bought into them.

                                              Izjar11 wrote:

                                              With these new clan wars, i can see it happening again, clans subjecting rules upon entry and requirements.

                                               

                                              As for these new clan wars, I feel differently than you. The new clan wars focus on actually winning in game to actually win the clan wars. On MW3, it was how many times your clan can cap a dom flag in a game, not focused on winning. We still see clans subjecting rules upon entry but they seem so out of place IMO. I laugh when I see a clan post "Must have 1.5 KDR or higher" and I think to myself how I'd much rather have someone with a 4.0 WLR with a .5 KDR with me.