42 Replies Latest reply: Jan 23, 2014 11:58 AM by Gambitual RSS

    Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks

    HEREIAMNOW

      Opinions?

        • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
          Gerbera

          There really is no pure "best" or "worst", IMO.

           

          It largely depends on your playstyle (like some people may not like controllable killstreaks, decent or otherwise, because they're the type who constantly runs around) and/or personal preference and/or sometimes even just the map you're on (like the Battle Hind can rack up a number of kills on ones like Stonehaven, Warhawk, Overlord, Whiteout, etc, but not so much on Strikezone, Free Fall, Sovereign, etc). You'll see a number of people complain about the streaks being "useless", "too weak", and such, and while they may not be as devastating as previous games, to many, that's also a good thing. It makes the streaks more supportive like they should be and not simply team killers where you can just sit back and do the minimal work. It's still player vs. player and not transformed into player vs. streaks.

          • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks

            Helo Scout is the only stupid one. Unless the enemy are vegetables you get killed instantly.

              • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                Gerbera

                Helo Scout, IMO, can depend on the map. One would assume that it should be used on a more open map like Stonehaven or something, but that's exactly the kind of map where it's also the most obvious and vulnerable to be taken out as well.

                • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                  ghamorra

                  Spoil-t wrote:

                   

                  Helo Scout is the only stupid one. Unless the enemy are vegetables you get killed instantly.

                  It's pretty bad. Last night I was getting my ass beat badly. I'm trying to finish the ghillie suit challenge and the chrome barrel is far from my favorite attachment. I wasn't in a very good mood and as soon as I heard there was an enemy Helo Scout I turned around and shot his face out. Poor guy wasn't in it for more than 2 seconds before I knocked him out of it. That kill really helped my mood.

                  • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                    jennral

                    The Helo Scout is difficult enough to control, without the insta-death.  IMO, they should be as hard to take down as the other helicopter killstreaks.

                  • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                    TL_Bare_B_V2

                    Worst  - Vulture, 9 kills for worthless streak.

                    • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                      Fang_1192

                      For Assault - Juggernaut, Vulture

                      For Support - Recon Juggernaut, Helo Scout.

                       

                      The finite health and visibility on minimap basically says I'M TIRED OF LIVING, COME KILL ME. The Minigun Juggernaut can't even ADS or get more ammo for the minigun. Knowing I will die no matter how skilled I am is not fun, at all.

                       

                      Vulture has awful tracking/targeting. Only used it to get the challenge done. Helo Scout is pretty bad as well. Unstable platform if you want to live, Stable platform that gets you killed if you want to shoot someone and doesn't even last that long.

                      • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                        Zeph_

                        Air Superiority. It doesn't kill the thing that is was specifically made to kill. It's like a 75% chance of success. If it doesn't work, you enjoy an air show while your team gets slaughtered.

                          • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                            IndyOldGuy

                            I wonder why people call these things in where there is nothing in air to shoot down, cracks me up every time...

                              • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                Zeph_

                                Might as well since it gives you some xp. No point in saving two of them.

                                • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                  TOLAND

                                  Ingrained reflex.

                                   

                                  Ooh goodie...I've got a killstreak, I've just got to call it in right this second!

                                   

                                  Aw, Fiddle Flam...why didn't my (insert whatever) do anything!

                                   

                                  I use to love sending up my Hind I had been holding on to as soon as someone's EMP expired.   You know, the EMP they set off when nobody on the opposing team has any equipment on the map.  Really, for that expensive a scorestreak, you are just going to mess up my mini-map a little?  LOL!

                                   

                                  They are like crack heads with these buttons. 

                                    • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                      nuttin2say

                                      Toland ... I'm one of those crack heads.

                                       

                                      But let me explain why. I only kept support classes for emergency use. If I landed on the crud team, if things got really bad, I could reliably go to that class and get an EMP. If the score, for example, in TDM was 50 and 15? I went to my support class. The thing is ... I had to score like 18 kills to get there and the other team needed only 25 kills to win. If the other team calls in ANY medium to high end streak, game over. So, for a single minute of relief?

                                       

                                      Yes, I called in my EMPs even if the other team had nothing in the air. It did not often make the difference between a win and a loss, but it did quite often make the difference between a 75 - 35 loss and a 75 - 55 loss. And if I was really lucky, the worst players on my team had backed out thinking all hope was lost ... and a GOOD player came in to help me and turn around a sure loser into a close win.

                                       

                                      THAT is why I felt the old Support Package, which included the EMP and Stealth Bomber was fair and balanced.

                                        • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                          Gerbera

                                          I also think a number of people seem to ignore just how ones like the Stealth Bomber, EMP, and other ones actually support you AND your entire team and not JUST you like Assault Killstreaks are usually meant to do.

                                          • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                            Zeph_

                                            EMP was not balanced at all lol. That was probably the most powerful streak in MW3. Because of that thing there was no point in running assault. In domination I was guaranteed at least 2 a game. With 5 of my friends getting at least 1 a game the enemy would barely be able to use any of their streaks for the rest of the game once the first one got off. I loved the EMP, but it was not fair at all. In demolition we'd time it for the overtime rounds so they enemy would never be able to use anything they saved up.

                                             

                                            Stealth bomber wasn't OP, but I don't think it belonged in support since it was an airstrike.

                                              • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                nuttin2say

                                                Thanks for making my point regarding parties. Haha. it's funny when you abuse aspects of the game. Not. It really says a lot when you think the reward that prevents you and your buddies from using PASSIVE rewards that score kills for you but PASSIVE rewards that prevent you from using those are over-powered. As I noted in my earlier post, the EMP could take a weak team of randoms and at least keep the fight a gun v gun game for a minute.

                                                  • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                    Gerbera

                                                    And the fact that the EMP performed such an action is why it's a high "Support" Killstreak to begin with. You're supporting your entire team by making it harder for the enemy team to kill them via Killstreak spam and messing up their electronics.

                                                    • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                      Zeph_

                                                      I must have missed the part about regarding parties in your post, not quite sure what you mean. I'm referring to you saying EMP was balanced. It was fine for TDM or KC since it's pretty difficult to get more than 1 a game, but in games like domination or demolition it was too powerful. EMP might have been okay if they reduced the time it lasted. It was like a whole minute of CUAV and no streaks. Time it correctly and that can turn into 3-5 minutes of hell. 

                                                       

                                                      How am I "abusing" the EMP by coordinating them with my team? Why should I bother working to get assault streaks when someone who gets 1 kill per life will kill an ac-130 with the press of a button? Normally I'd be able to get an EMP saved up before someone gets anything good for assault. Even the worst players can get 1 EMP in a game of domination. With a team of good to decent players the EMP becomes outrageously powerful. Not being able to use kill streaks (assault or support) except for maybe ballistic vests is pretty devastating.

                                                       

                                                      EMP doesn't prevent me and my friends from using passive rewards. It prevents our enemies from using anything and kills their radar. EMP was the best streak in MW3. Osprey (support or assault) in bound? Nope. *bloop* gone. Same goes for juggarnauts, you can't even call it in fast enough.

                                                        • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                          Gerbera

                                                          "With a team of good to decent players the EMP becomes outrageously powerful. Not being able to use kill streaks (assault or support) except for maybe ballistic vests is pretty devastating."

                                                           

                                                          Not everyone is "good" nor do they all have "good" teams to coordinate it with. In either case, the EMP is just doing exactly what it says it does (and only lasts 30 seconds). Not being able to use all but one Killstreak sans Specialist is only "devastating" to people who, frankly, can't do well without them (and it's shown more and more with the complaints in Ghosts about "useless" or "weak" Killstreaks).

                                                           

                                                          Being hit with an EMP immediately put me on my toes. Yes, my vision is a bit fuzzy (unless I'm using a class that has Assassin or I have the Specialist Bonus) and the mini map is disabled, but I don't rely so heavily on the mini map and I make sure to make my way to an area of the map I can better control until it wears off rather than continue to try to run around half-blindly.

                                                            • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                              Zeph_

                                                              Alright fair enough, but even sans coordination it's pretty damn powerful. If you can use a streak that can nullify any other streak why wouldn't you? Especially one where you don't need to stay alive to build points for it. What was the counter for EMP? Prevent the enemy from getting 17-18 streak points during the game? There were tons of ways to rack points for an EMP without killing someone in domination. At least when people are using launchers against an ac-130/reaper/osprey gunner it has a chance to kill the people trying to kill it. It made running assault meaningless. I thought it was powerful enough to be in assault, maybe at 12/15 streak points.

                                                               

                                                              "Not being able to use all but one Killstreak sans Specialist is only "devastating" to people who, frankly, can't do well without them (and it's shown more and more with the complaints in Ghosts about "useless" or "weak" Killstreaks)."

                                                               

                                                              Which is exactly why it was so strong. The majority of people weren't very good without them. I'm fine for the most part on streaks for ghosts though. Assault don't dominate and do all the work for you. Support doesn't use things like stealth bombers since that's more of an assault streak.

                                                               

                                                              " I don't rely so heavily on the mini map and I make sure to make my way to an area of the map I can better control"

                                                               

                                                              I can safely say that the majority of the MW3 community (pre-BO2) didn't do that. EMP completely screwed them. Making a situation where enemies can't chase the dots or even seeing where friendlies were being taken out is pretty useful.

                                                                • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                                  Gerbera

                                                                  The problem with the EMP (and Stealth Bomber) argument I see in general is that a lot people tend to think that "noobs" are "spamming" it without even realizing how backwards that sounds and how bad it makes THEM look. If it were really "noobs" that were "spamming it", then that means they had to have been constantly getting 17-18+ kills, which would mean that those "noobs" were destroying that person and their team nigh effortlessly (yet the complainers still, at the same time, try to say they're SO good), so if they were "noobs", what exactly does that make the complainers? If they were really "noobs", then getting 11-12 kills, much less 17-18 kills, even with how Support Killstreaks work, would be a challenge because it means they'll have a much harder time winning gun battles compared to "good" players, and if by chance they do get it, it will more than likely just be once and be late in the game where it will have far less of an effect (unless all 5 of that person's teammates are just THAT good).

                                                                   

                                                                  The fact that people aren't that good without their Killstreaks is not the fault of the EMP itself, but the fault of the players for being so reliant on them in the first place. Trying to blame the EMP is just an excuse for those players to justify their otherwise lack of ability without something doing most of the work for them and, as I said, this is being exposed more and more in Ghosts with such complaints.

                                                                   

                                                                  And the Stealth Bomber is pretty much air support meant to clear out a pathway (either by kills or making the opposing team clear the area) to allow you and your teammates to press forward while giving quite a warning of its approach (announcement, easily seen coming, and loud as hell). It's not meant to gain kills only for yourself (if you're lucky enough to kill the whole team, more power to you, the opposing team was extremely stupid).

                                                              • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                                nuttin2say

                                                                With 5 of my friends getting at least 1 a game the enemy would barely be able to use any of their streaks for the rest of the game once the first one got off.

                                                                 

                                                                While technically fully within the rules, what you described there most certainly does abuse the system. Coordinating so that one or two guys have an EMP available at any given time is no big deal. But 5 or 6 of you running EMPs and Stealth Bombers is abusing the system. There's no skill in that at all - as you aptly point out yourself.

                                                                 

                                                                But randoms, by definition, have not coordinated their efforts in that same fashion.

                                                                 

                                                                Yes, only one EMP was needed in TDM matches. But a lot of parties would try to call in 4. This was easily preventable and I could earn 2 EMPs in a TDM if I started out with that class. That kept TDM quite balanced.

                                                                 

                                                                Domination was really no different. Unless people are playing Domination as if it is TDM, a Dom match should not last much longer than a TDM match. That's why it has a timer, too. But let's say a Dom match lasts 8 minutes. Scratch the first 2 minutes because very few people are going to earn an EMP in 2 minutes or less. Even if they did and they called it in immediately (I'm assuming your team would not have done that), the maximum number of EMPs you're likely to see is six. Okay, so the match goes the limit (if you're in a party and it goes the limit, you were not playing Dom. It might have been the game mode, but Dom's not what you were playing ... and I win my argument), if the game goes the limit, you've got a max of 8 EMPs.

                                                                 

                                                                Well neither 6 nor 8 EMPs were happening in MW3. I looked back through a lot of matches and even looked at other player's matches in Elite. It was not happening. About 4 from one team was the most you were seeing. And that was against total noobs.

                                                                 

                                                                So what I have to do is prevent your team from bringing in six EMPs. When I launch just one EMP, I've knocked you down to a maximum of five. If I bring in two EMPs, I've limited your team to 4 EMPs. That would have to assume you've got 4 guys that can get an EMP against a player who can easily earn 2, possibly 3 EMPs on his own ... while also assuming all four of those guys are capable of earning an EMP without any streak rewards and limited other support.

                                                                 

                                                                Yeah. Not going to happen. At best, you've got two guys capable of earning 2 EMPs on their own without other supports. At best. Usually you had only one such player on a team

                                                                 

                                                                The second thing that had to be assumed was that the team of randoms had only ONE player that could earn an EMP. A good player with a half decent player could easily earn 3 EMPs to your 4. That's more than are going to be called in, for one thing. And second, neither team would be calling in anything more powerful than a Stealth Bomber - which was highly overrated in the first place.

                                                                 

                                                                So, especially because the EMP could be exploited in the way you described, having the EMP available in the first place created balance. Just because most people could not figure this out means nothing ... this game requires as much mental agility as it does physical agility.

                                                                 

                                                                Long story short? The mere availability of the EMP created balance. It didn't matter if one team was trying to exploit the system, the other team calling in an EMP could substantially disrupt the opposing team - even  if they were all using it.

                                                                  • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                                    Zeph_

                                                                    So using the EMP in coordination is abusing and exploiting the system, but it's fine to keep it in the game since other people are able to do the same thing? I don't think that's okay. As a support streak EMP was too strong.  You're pretty spot on with how many would happen during a game of domination. My brother and I would get 2 pretty regularly, 3 if we're having really good games. 30ish kills, shooting anything in the sky, and capping would get your there every time. Lets say only 4 of us were able to coordinate EMPs, that's still a very long time to be EMP'd in a game. I thought EMPs lasted a minute and I was wrong, but that coordinated setup feels like forever when you're playing the game.

                                                                     

                                                                    With teams of randoms they wouldn't even know that we were going to coordinate EMPs so once it happens you can't stop it. Hell, how would you until it happens? Even if they did know, they're randoms. Not all of them are going to be team players and use EMP or even support streaks.

                                                                     

                                                                    Sure it's not common to see in games, but the fact that something like this is possible doesn't sit well with me. I like for things to have counters, but not force the player to fight fire with fire. EMP was just too strong in MW3. I would have rather it not existed. There were plenty of ways to take down/prevent assault streaks, EMP wasn't necessary.

                                                                      • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                                        Gerbera

                                                                        The fact that such coordination is very rare and there's no real easy way of doing it aside from...well...being "good" and having a good team is balance in itself. The ineptitude of randoms is, again, the fault of the players, not the streak itself being "too strong". And while there's no way to get around the "no Killstreaks (except Ballistic Vests)" part of the EMP, Assassin Pro gets around the visual distortion part of it, which is really all one needs to have an easier time to survive after it's used (and if one uses Iron Sights on their weapons, which a number usually try to do, even better). If they simply can't survive without use of Killstreaks, again, that's the fault of the players themselves being pretty inept without them, not the EMP.

                                                        • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                          Doctorpsylus

                                                          Timing is the key with AS

                                                            • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                              Zeph_

                                                              I beg to differ. I don't know how I can time it incorrectly when I call 2 AS on one battle hind. One before it gets on the map and one after it kills a few team mates. It's happened so many times to me where I save up one and nothing happens. I've found that I'd rather take my chances and equip the MAAWS. At least I'll be able to get some kills before it recycles back to it.

                                                          • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks

                                                            best streak is the satnav and worst are guard dog, squad mate and heloscout sniper thing

                                                            • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks

                                                              Trinity Rocket is by far the worst killstreak. Even the good old predator was much more better as a 5 kills streak in MW3.

                                                              • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                                dtuchpunk

                                                                helo scout. It's to slow and you can't move it the way I want. For example fly middle map and doe 360's

                                                                 

                                                                airsupriority most times I see them they aren't needed because no helo's in the sky.

                                                                • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                                  Doctorpsylus

                                                                  Support = for those who cannot maintain killstreaks

                                                                  if you can then go with the norm

                                                                  For me

                                                                  air superiority - banked in case of the helo scout or hind

                                                                  oracle - handy for blocks of points IF YOU WORK TOGETHER

                                                                  Odin- used properly (again bank the flash ) can cap in domination,infest it with smoke & Drop 3-4 care packs ,keep your Jugg dude movin around the cap area & drop smoke constantly on recharge

                                                                  those three can kill the helicopters in 1 go

                                                                  get masses of points & often by the time im in odin the other guys ffinish the game it closes the suitcase as the games over

                                                                  Timing is essential ,don`t just press air supe cos you have it,BANK IT & wait....

                                                                  • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks

                                                                    I will say that Air Superiority does kill Care Package helicopters and I am pretty sure they don't drop the package when shot down. Like with other air rewards, it is kinda iffy if they will shoot it down. Add in the fact that the Care Package heli' doesn't stay around for a lengthy amount of time, destroying it is down to luck. But is possible.

                                                                     

                                                                    Ground Jammer is good to get rid of an I.M.S. Those things are annoying without Stalker Pro. However, I can get two free Trophy System blocks towards the Trophy System operation if no one is protecting the I.M.S.

                                                                     

                                                                    Anyway...

                                                                    Best Assault: Guard Dog too good

                                                                    Worst Assault: Probably the Vulture, targeting needs a buff or take it down from 9 kills

                                                                    Best Support: Odin, while requiring the most kills, it is the definition of support

                                                                    Worst Support: Ground Jammer, simply because everything else is better, I think the Helo Scout is controllable enough and Air Superiority can be a life saver on the off chance it can take out something deadly, Ammo Crate would be the worst if the Squad Member couldn't/wouldn't get anything from it

                                                                      • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                                        ghamorra

                                                                        This game is about Gun v. Gun so I understand why some Pointstreaks are the way they are and it's important to remember this when discussing balancing. I've only used the Vulture a handful of times but even still I found it to be useful. It's not meant to get kills but rather watch your back. If you're in a heads-up gun fight don't count on it to do all the work. It's more for escorting you and being a distraction.

                                                                         

                                                                        A possible buff for the Vulture would be to add stun or flash bangs to it's aresenal. Since it is meant to be supportive rather than a do-all-the-work I think shooting out a flashbang or two every so often would be helpful. Maybe even explode giving off an EMP like effect when it's destroyed. Something to think about rather than making it more lethal.

                                                                          • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks

                                                                            Good points. I personally think that the fact that the Vulture will stay it's full time disregarding any deaths its user find him/herself taking is a great boon. I mean, all the Assault streaks besides the Juggernauts stay past death, but this, with the dog, aren't user controlled.

                                                                             

                                                                            Still, when compared to the others, I would say it is the worst. It is good, just I don't think it is better than the rest. Your suggestions are awesome though. Maybe make a support Vulture that only doesn't shoot at all and only does those? Like an offensive Nightowl.

                                                                          • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks

                                                                            If Ground Jammer had the length of a counter UAV it would be more useful. Now don't have the inability to use killstreaks last that long just the minimap fuzziness.

                                                                          • Re: Best and Worst Kill/Support Streaks
                                                                            NoLifeKing32

                                                                            Best Assault: Dog, Maniac

                                                                            Worst Assault: Vulture, as others have said, its a worthless 9 kill streak.

                                                                            Best Support: Odin, no one uses blind eye, its a great support streak.

                                                                            Worst Support: Dont really know, I rarely use support, but I would say the helo sniper is a joke, rarely does it OHK and its easy to shoot down.